NFL Week 17

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Does anybody have any confidence in the Browns making a com pedant hire?

Or in the Lions firing Schwartz?

[RainMaker]

The Bears bad coaching staff came through again today. How does Mel Tucker have a job still?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The Bears bad coaching staff came through again today. How does Mel Tucker have a job still?

Imagine if the Bears actually did have bad coaching how much you would complain?

They were 1 stupid defensive play from winning the division. Not a bad season all in all considering talent and injuries. This is the reason they dont allow fans to hire/fire coaches. Unreasonable expectations.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Does anybody have any confidence in the Browns making a com pedant hire?

Or in the Lions firing Schwartz?

If the Browns can't draft a quality QB, it won't matter.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Senator

That's the grandson, who I coached. Dear God, the stories I could tell.

Tell... tell

[Logan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Here's the story on the missed call (with photo evidence)

San Diego Chargers got away with uncalled penalty in win over Chiefs | Audibles - SI.com

From the link...

Yes, it was still up to the Chiefs to take care of business in overtime, and you can bet that the NFL will take a hard look at how many key players Kansas City rested — after all, commissioner Roger Goodell has been talking for years about how he wants every game to be competitive.

Is that a fucking joke?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Logan

From the link...



Is that a fucking joke?

It's a blog post... enough said.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Here's the story on the missed call (with photo evidence)

San Diego Chargers got away with uncalled penalty in win over Chiefs | Audibles - SI.com

That's a blog. I see nothing about the league acknowledging it.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Only things I've seen so far have come from Mike Pereira, who isn't part of the shield any more.

[Logan]

It'll come today or tomorrow. The NFL doesn't usually comment publicly right away.

[panerd]

It's karma. Your coach wants to be part of the kickoff return then don't leave your playoff hopes up to a team that has zero reason to care about their week 17 game. (Or better yet lose less than 8 games... I bet Cardinal fans are real sympathetic to the Steeler's complaint)

[Suburban Rhythm]

As a Steelers fan, while I'd like to watch them play another week, this is better for them. They need to trim some fat and move forward.

Still doesn't condone the league regularly having suspect calls by their officials to issue apologizes for the following day.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

From the link...



Is that a fucking joke?

I think the NFL postseason has the best setup of all of the sports (though baseball is much improved with the play-in game). That said if they don't want teams resting their players in week 17 than give an 11-4 team something to play for and get rid of the divisional home field advantage. Fuck Godell if he is going to stand there with a straight face and blast KC while Arizona gets left out of the playoffs at 10-6 and Green Bay hosts a playoff game to a team with 4 more wins.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

As a Steelers fan, while I'd like to watch them play another week, this is better for them. They need to trim some fat and move forward.

Still doesn't condone the league regularly having suspect calls by their officials to issue apologizes for the following day.

Suspect meaning bad or are you implying the league would rather have San Diego in the playoffs than Pittsburgh? I'll give you choice #1 but #2 is laughable.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Imagine if the Bears actually did have bad coaching how much you would complain?

They were 1 stupid defensive play from winning the division. Not a bad season all in all considering talent and injuries. This is the reason they dont allow fans to hire/fire coaches. Unreasonable expectations.

Really? You're going to stick with that? One stupid defensive play? You must only watch one or two plays from national games to be able to make that statement about the Bears coaching staff. Good staffs don't use injuries as an excuse. And the Bears should have put up 40+ against that GB defense. I'll just put it this way -- this staff is the flip side of the Lovie coin. All offense, no defense. But still the same coin, so we still have stupid coaching. The only reason Trestman doesn't have the deer-in-the-headlights look is because he has his play sheet in front of his face. They had a chance to get Arians (in the conversation for CotY), but they get this nimrod from the CFL. Didn't he hire the great Mel Tucker from that perennial powerhouse in Jacksonville? No playoffs again. Enough said.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Really? You're going to stick with that? One stupid defensive play? You must only watch one or two plays from national games to be able to make that statement about the Bears coaching staff. Good staffs don't use injuries as an excuse. And the Bears should have put up 40+ against that GB defense. I'll just put it this way -- this staff is the flip side of the Lovie coin. All offense, no defense. But still the same coin, so we still have stupid coaching. The only reason Trestman doesn't have the deer-in-the-headlights look is because he has his play sheet in front of his face. They had a chance to get Arians (in the conversation for CotY), but they get this nimrod from the CFL. Didn't he hire the great Mel Tucker from that perennial powerhouse in Jacksonville? No playoffs again. Enough said.

That Chicago weather must be tough on some of you guys. Mel Tucker was actually a fairly hot coaching prospect until he came to a team with very little defensive talent. I guess this is why the Bears have very little consistency in their organization The Bears finally get in a fresh group of coaches and some of the fans wont even give them a chance to have success before they will be pushed out to better organizations like the Pats. I personally hope these coaches do get pushed out the door so the Bears can go back to their 1970s brand of football and one less threat in the NFC North to worry about.

Not saying fan bases of other teams are a whole lot better but most of them at least give a coach 2-3 years before crapping all over them. Trestman gets crapped on halfway through his first season in which they were 1 play from making the playoffs. I wouldnt want to coach in Chicago if you represent even 1/3 of the fanbase and their feelings.

[Butter]

The next time I cry about the Steelers getting screwed by the refs blowing a call will be the first.

That said, when I watched the Chargers fake punt, I told my son that the Steelers just made the playoffs. I don't know how they blew that play dead.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

That said, when I watched the Chargers fake punt, I told my son that the Steelers just made the playoffs. I don't know how they blew that play dead.

I told my wife the same thing.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

That Chicago weather must be tough on some of you guys. Mel Tucker was actually a fairly hot coaching prospect until he came to a team with very little defensive talent. I guess this is why the Bears have very little consistency in their organization The Bears finally get in a fresh group of coaches and some of the fans wont even give them a chance to have success before they will be pushed out to better organizations like the Pats. I personally hope these coaches do get pushed out the door so the Bears can go back to their 1970s brand of football and one less threat in the NFC North to worry about.

No consistency? Huh? Your definition must be different than the rest of the world. Lovie was with the Bears for nine seasons. And Angelo was the GM from 2001 through 2011. If anything, they were in their jobs way too long. Even Jauron and Wannstedt were given ample time to show what they could do. And they did -- they sucked. (Also see the Buffalo and Miami teams when they coached there.) You want Trestman? You can have his lame ass. He's from Minnesota so you can have all the bad football you want. He's the quarterback whisperer, you know. He can turn Ponder into Joe Montana.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

No consistency? Huh? Your definition must be different than the rest of the world. Lovie was with the Bears for nine seasons. And Angelo was the GM from 2001 through 2011. If anything, they were in their jobs way too long. Even Jauron and Wannstedt were given ample time to show what they could do. And they did -- they sucked. (Also see the Buffalo and Miami teams when they coached there.) You want Trestman? You can have his lame ass. He's from Minnesota so you can have all the bad football you want. He's the quarterback whisperer, you know. He can turn Ponder into Joe Montana.

The Bears finished 8-8 with a ton of injuries. I think it would be fair to give Trestman one more year before declaring him a total failure as an NFL head coach. At least the Bears looked interested in playing football yesterday.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

No consistency? Huh? Your definition must be different than the rest of the world. Lovie was with the Bears for nine seasons. And Angelo was the GM from 2001 through 2011. If anything, they were in their jobs way too long. Even Jauron and Wannstedt were given ample time to show what they could do. And they did -- they sucked. (Also see the Buffalo and Miami teams when they coached there.) You want Trestman? You can have his lame ass. He's from Minnesota so you can have all the bad football you want. He's the quarterback whisperer, you know. He can turn Ponder into Joe Montana.

The real consistency in Chicago is every coach sucks, right?

Maybe they can get Ditka out of retirement.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The real consistency in Chicago is every coach sucks, right?

Maybe they can get Ditka out of retirement.

What a witty retort.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by panerd

Suspect meaning bad or are you implying the league would rather have San Diego in the playoffs than Pittsburgh? I'll give you choice #1 but #2 is laughable.

Clearly #1

Alot of it is related to every one of us at home being an expert now, with multiple replay angles, but seems like every week there are calls that leave the majority of people scratching their heads.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Clearly #1

Alot of it is related to every one of us at home being an expert now, with multiple replay angles, but seems like every week there are calls that leave the majority of people scratching their heads.

Can't get worked up about it too much. There were two key SD runs where there was a clear holding call in both cases right where the hole was made in the line. It sucks, but that's the way it is. To be honest, I'm surprised that they get as many calls right as they do, given the speed of the game and how many players they have to watch.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

The Bears finished 8-8 with a ton of injuries. I think it would be fair to give Trestman one more year before declaring him a total failure as an NFL head coach. At least the Bears looked interested in playing football yesterday.

I understand what you're saying, and of course Chicago will be stuck with him until his contract is up. (The McCaskeys are known as being notoriously...um...thrifty.) But I am amazed at the love that he gets because of the improved offense. He did inherit a lot of improvements -- a revamped (good) OL, a 2nd year beast in Jeffrey, a better tight end -- so it's hard to really measure his impact in any real sense. It's a little easier to measure his poor coaching decisions. It's notable that you wrote that at least the Bears looked interested in playing yesterday. It's obvious what the implication of your statement is, especially following that debacle against the Eagles. I will file that under the "lack of preparedness" column. Not the only time that has happened this year. So this coach-love reminds me of the movie Shallow Hal, without the positive message -- people are seeing what they want to see. I guess an improved offense is enough for most to cover up all of the other nasty coaching blemishes.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

So this coach-love reminds me of the movie Shallow Hal, without the positive message -- people are seeing what they want to see. I guess an improved offense is enough for most to cover up all of the other nasty coaching blemishes.

I don't think it's "coach love", it's just a realization that a guy needs to have more than one-year before writing him off completely. The Bears had some big ups and downs under a new coach, I think that happens to every team that brings in a new guy.

For the record, I don't think the Browns should've fired Chudzinski after one season. Even though I was scratching my head when they hired him.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Only things I've seen so far have come from Mike Pereira, who isn't part of the shield any more.

original report was from Mike Florio (PFT/NBC post game show)

[BillJasper]

NFL admits officials screwed up and Succop should've gotten to attempt another FG.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

NFL admits officials screwed up and Succop should've gotten to attempt another FG.

What they really should do in this instance since it was a game-ending play with playoff implications is get all the players back out there on the field and let him attempt the FG again from the new spot after the penalty and then just wipe the overtime from the books assuming that he makes it.

Get it right NFL.

[Logan]

No thanks.

[SnowMan]

The delicious irony of the Stealers getting screwed by Bill Leavy.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by panerd

It's karma. Your coach wants to be part of the kickoff return then don't leave your playoff hopes up to a team that has zero reason to care about their week 17 game. (Or better yet lose less than 8 games... I bet Cardinal fans are real sympathetic to the Steeler's complaint)

Oh very sympathetic.

[BillJasper]

I can understand missing a call when a play is in motion because of how fast the game has gotten. But I don't understand how they can miss such an obvious call before the play even starts?

[gstelmack]

Did the seven on one side end up impacting the actual FG attempt? If not I'm fine with the no-call.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Did the seven on one side end up impacting the actual FG attempt? If not I'm fine with the no-call.

Well, they overloaded the left side (kicker perspective) because the ball was on the right hash. And he missed it wide right, so you could make the case that he was worried about it getting blocked from that side.

But that shouldn't matter. There's a lot of rules that are judgmental, but this isn't one.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Did the seven on one side end up impacting the actual FG attempt? If not I'm fine with the no-call.

Tough to say? Succop pushed the ball to the right and the Chargers overloaded to his left.

[Thomkal]

I hope that bad call in the San Diego game, one that potentially affected a playoff spot in the last week of the season, is the call that lights a fire under the NFL and Players Association to finally improve the skill level of its umpires.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by panerd

That said if they don't want teams resting their players in week 17 than give an 11-4 team something to play for and get rid of the divisional home field advantage. Fuck Godell if he is going to stand there with a straight face and blast KC while Arizona gets left out of the playoffs at 10-6 and Green Bay hosts a playoff game to a team with 4 more wins.

I hate this complaint with a passion. Until they have more balanced schedules (i.e. teams being compared for byes, seeding, and homefield play the same teams), I don't want to hear the whining about 8-8 hosting 12-4 or whatever. They didn't play the same team, so the divisions rule all.

My suggestion to fix it is in this day and age of TV and Internet letting folks pick who they want to watch, you don't need teams rotating through stadiums like the old days (and it doesn't really happen all the time, witness Indy at New England how many years in a row, no New England in Indy), so don't worry about rotating teams to play against each other. 2 conferences, 2 divisions in each conference, 8 teams per division. Scheduling is play each team in your division twice (14 games), then spend the other 2 against the other division. Don't play the other conference at all. Schedules are MUCH closer, and the only real home field issue is the conference championship.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I hate this complaint with a passion. Until they have more balanced schedules (i.e. teams being compared for byes, seeding, and homefield play the same teams), I don't want to hear the whining about 8-8 hosting 12-4 or whatever. They didn't play the same team, so the divisions rule all.

My suggestion to fix it is in this day and age of TV and Internet letting folks pick who they want to watch, you don't need teams rotating through stadiums like the old days (and it doesn't really happen all the time, witness Indy at New England how many years in a row, no New England in Indy), so don't worry about rotating teams to play against each other. 2 conferences, 2 divisions in each conference, 8 teams per division. Scheduling is play each team in your division twice (14 games), then spend the other 2 against the other division. Don't play the other conference at all. Schedules are MUCH closer, and the only real home field issue is the conference championship.

I'd rather we just keep it as is and not worry about the anomalies. Not sure if I saw it here or somewhere else...but the Saints were a monster favorite over the awful NFC West champ Seahawks a few years back and look what happened.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I don't think it's "coach love", it's just a realization that a guy needs to have more than one-year before writing him off completely. The Bears had some big ups and downs under a new coach, I think that happens to every team that brings in a new guy.

For the record, I don't think the Browns should've fired Chudzinski after one season. Even though I was scratching my head when they hired him.

Indeed.

He doesnt even have the players to fit into his system yet. Giving a new coach a chance to evolve with his type of players would be a good start to see how successful and he can and will be.

That defense really needs to be revamped. Lovie got the most he could out of that aging defense but now the time has come for some changes on that end of the ball.

Anyway, sick of discussing the Bears(who were 1 play from the playoffs) and their problems. Plenty of other teams will REAL problems we could be discussing

[cuervo72]

Teams know what the deal is going in, it's not as if playoff selections are some huge mystery. Things eventually even out anyway - Arizona was just as fortunate in 2008 as they may be considered unfortunate now.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Imagine if the Bears actually did have bad coaching how much you would complain?

They were 1 stupid defensive play from winning the division. Not a bad season all in all considering talent and injuries. This is the reason they dont allow fans to hire/fire coaches. Unreasonable expectations.

The 47 yard field goal on 2nd down against the Vikings and removing an injured QB against the Lions would have won them the division too.

The defense has been a disaster all season. Worst in franchise history and broke some other modern records. Mel Tucker was a shit coach in Jacksonville and is a shit coach in Chicago. Why is it wrong to want to get rid of him as the defensive coordinator?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

The Bears finished 8-8 with a ton of injuries. I think it would be fair to give Trestman one more year before declaring him a total failure as an NFL head coach. At least the Bears looked interested in playing football yesterday.

I'm fine with keeping Trestman. The offense improved a great deal and this league is about offense for the most part. He made some huge mistakes that did cost them the division (Minnesota, Detroit). I'm hoping those were first year jitters and he improves in his game decisions.

Mel Tucker is who needs to go. The defense was historically bad, young players didn't improve at all, and players had no idea where to go half the time. I understand injuries and some talent gaps, but when players don't know where they are supposed to be it's on the coaching staff. That final play against Green Bay was just something we've seen all season long from his defense.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why is it wrong to want to get rid of him as the defensive coordinator?

Oh, nothing at all. Just keep playing musical chairs with coaches for a few years. Building a winning system and bringing in players to fit that system is overrated.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Oh, nothing at all. Just keep playing musical chairs with coaches for a few years. Building a winning system and bringing in players to fit that system is overrated.

Well they seem to have fixed the offensive side of the ball. Why not fix the defensive side of the ball? The team is rebuilding on that side and will likely have a whole new batch of players. What is it Mel Tucker is bringing to the Bears organization? His defenses were terrible in Jacksonville and his defense in Chicago broke franchise records for futility.

Keeping a terrible coach for continuity seems like a bad idea.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The 47 yard field goal on 2nd down against the Vikings and removing an injured QB against the Lions would have won them the division too.

The defense has been a disaster all season. Worst in franchise history and broke some other modern records. Mel Tucker was a shit coach in Jacksonville and is a shit coach in Chicago. Why is it wrong to want to get rid of him as the defensive coordinator?

DeCamillis first. Tucker second. That would be my "send 'em packing" list.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Well they seem to have fixed the offensive side of the ball. Why not fix the defensive side of the ball? The team is rebuilding on that side and will likely have a whole new batch of players. What is it Mel Tucker is bringing to the Bears organization? His defenses were terrible in Jacksonville and his defense in Chicago broke franchise records for futility.

Keeping a terrible coach for continuity seems like a bad idea.

He wasnt considered terrible 1 year ago.

Its odd how bad players can make a coach terrible. Can you believe Bill Bellichek was probably considered terrible at one time also? I think for some reason you think the Bears have talent on defense in which they dont. Lovie used pure magic to get that defense to play good the past few years.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He wasnt considered terrible 1 year ago.

Its odd how bad players can make a coach terrible. Can you believe Bill Bellichek was probably considered terrible at one time also? I think for some reason you think the Bears have talent on defense in which they dont. Lovie used pure magic to get that defense to play good the past few years.

He might not have been considered terrible a year ago, but he was. He has only had a defense outside the bottom 5 in DVOA one time in his career. That's horrendous.

And like I said, it's not about talent for me. The defense didn't know where to be half the time. That's on the coach. The team was missing 4 starters by the end of the year. I understand that's bad, but there are other teams in that spot that didn't turn to complete trash.

[Buccaneer]

Give me a frickin' break about playoffs seeding. The nfl has the best system to where you can deep in the tie-breaker criteria - unlike college where you barely get past the first one or two. Divisions in sports have always ruled because teams play more games there than any other group. If anything, they should go back to fewer playoffs team but the unfortunate trend in sports is to let nearly everyone into the post-season.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

If anything, they should go back to fewer playoffs team but the unfortunate trend in sports is to let nearly everyone into the post-season.

I wish they'd go back to each conference having three divisions and two wild-cards, though I know that's impractical with 32 teams.