Martin/Incognito Thread

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Yeah I actually read thru that entire thing (boring day at work).

And it is really just 2 young(ish) & single dudes with more money than brains really where the most surprising part is the lack of anything surprising.

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Certainly looks like Ingognito is speaking a lot more truth than Martin based on those texts. If this is the whole story hard to come to any other conclusion that this was cynically planned and he threw him under the bus because he didn't want to play in the league any more

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I haven't gone through the texts but I'll work from what's been said here as a good synposis, which brings me to my question ...

Did I dream it, or wasn't it Martin's lawyer that brought up (about a week or so ago) how the texts would make the horrible situation for his client clear?

Maybe he was thinking only a carefully selected few would get out there? And if so, isn't that incredibly naive?

I am no doctor, but this smells of someone with mental/emotional issues. Bi-polar, head injury, concussion...something isn't right with Martin.

[jbergey22]

Interesting.

If this is Martins main case he has nothing. If this is all he has I would wonder if Richie can go after the Dolphins now.

[Arles]

I stand by what I said back in November:

Originally Posted by Arles

The more I read about this, the more I think that Martin just wasn't into football and wanted a way to keep getting paid. The steps he took were not "off the cuff" things a normal person facing bullying would do. He saved all these recordings/texts. When he got called out for missing OTAs, he blamed the locker room environment (in the offseason?!). When he left the Miami facility, he immediately had his representatives send a formal complaint with full documentation. Then, after all his ducks were in a row, he checked himself into a hospital just long enough to have it documented before flying cross country to Cali.

Seems like this was fairly calculated on his part to keep getting paid and not have to play football for Miami. Maybe I'm wrong and I couldn't give two sh*ts what happens to Incognito - he's had this coming since Nebraska. But, I think the more people dig, the more Martin's true intentions will start to surface. This just doesn't smell like "poor 2nd year guy got bullied and then had enough and cracked". He's too smart for that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

If this is all he has I would wonder if Richie can go after the Dolphins now.

IF this turns out to be highly insubstantial, I hope Incognito ends up owning the Dolphins ... and a bunch of commentators as well.

[Groundhog]

I'm glad that (so far, at least) text messages from my early to mid-20s won't find their way onto the web.

[Buccaneer]

I guess it's still ok to excuse away bad behavior for whatever reason. Shouldn't we encourage good or positive behavior for at least those in public light?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I guess it's still ok to excuse away bad behavior for whatever reason. Shouldn't we encourage good or positive behavior for at least those in public light?

If you are referring to the text messages I dont see what that has to do with "bad behavior" as it was meant to be a discussion kept privately between them two. From what I was reading into the text messages they sounded like good pals that hung out a lot to me. Kind of a different story we were led to believe 3 months ago.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I guess it's still ok to excuse away bad behavior for whatever reason. Shouldn't we encourage good or positive behavior for at least those in public light?

I dont think anyone is saying Incognito is a saint.

But I cant cry abuse when I abuse you.

I think both are pretty "uncooth" in their language (as I suspect somewhere north of 90% of the NFL is as well) but you cant say racial and sexual slurs harass you if you also use them.

RI is a Piece of crap. Dont think thats being debated. But he is no worse than JM and JM wants special treatment.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I guess it's still ok to excuse away bad behavior for whatever reason. Shouldn't we encourage good or positive behavior for at least those in public light?

The biggest damage done in this entire story is that Martin used a legit issue (bullying) as a way to get a paid vacation from the NFL. Now, the entire cause of "stop real bullying" gets marginalized by people who now say "see, he wasn't even treated that badly - people are overreacting to this bullying stuff".

Just like the boy who cried wolf, his selfish interests could now make it harder for the next kid/player/person who deals with real bullying to get taken seriously. That's the sad part.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by Arles

The biggest damage done in this entire story is that Martin used a legit issue (bullying) as a way to get a paid vacation from the NFL. Now, the entire cause of "stop real bullying" gets marginalized by people who now say "see, he wasn't even treated that badly - people are overreacting to this bullying stuff".

Just like the boy who cried wolf, his selfish interests could now make it harder for the next kid/player/person who deals with real bullying to get taken seriously. That's the sad part.

100% agreed. I've been skeptical of Martin's family throughout this, and wouldn't be surprised if it later comes out that they were pressuring Martin to quit, using litigation as a means to insure his financial well-being. I think they are/were hoping for a settlement, but that seems like something highly unlikely now. I know I wouldn't settle if I was Miami.

I'm actually surprised at how well Incognito handled this up to this point, when I would have been beyond pissed to have my career put in jeopardy by this kind of bullshit.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Arles

The biggest damage done in this entire story is that Martin used a legit issue (bullying) as a way to get a paid vacation from the NFL. Now, the entire cause of "stop real bullying" gets marginalized by people who now say "see, he wasn't even treated that badly - people are overreacting to this bullying stuff".

Just like the boy who cried wolf, his selfish interests could now make it harder for the next kid/player/person who deals with real bullying to get taken seriously. That's the sad part.

I partly agree. No one should be sending texts and saying the things that Incognito did (and probably Martin to some extent). I don't care if it's the culture or whatever excuse for the context, people should not act this way, esp. if you are a public figure and there will be others following your example.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I partly agree. No one should be sending texts and saying the things that Incognito did (and probably Martin to some extent). I don't care if it's the culture or whatever excuse for the context, people should not act this way, esp. if you are a public figure and there will be others following your example.

I don't think most people, even somewhat in the public eye, expect that the world will read the text messages they send to their buddies.

This is basically the current generation's version of a Friday night poker game with the guys. Think those conversations were only PG-rated?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

This is basically the current generation's version of a Friday night poker game with the guys. Think those conversations were only PG-rated?

Or movies, or anywhere else. Hell, you should hear friends on XBox Live sometime

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

This is basically the current generation's version of a Friday night poker game with the guys. Think those conversations were only PG-rated?

Of course not, but I'm just kind of curious how widespread that kind of thing is outside of meathead athletic circles. I've never been in conversations like that or talked about women like that in my life. I've also never played sports except low-level high school. I'm not judging them, or being critical here, I'm just wondering how sheltered I am.

Edit: And I'm not being critical of these guys for the words used, and I'm sure in most cases its just talk, but the grumpy law enforcement-oriented guy in me can't help but think of the connection between this manner of thinking about women and domestic and sexual violence (which is also something that's relatively prevalent in meathead athletic circles). I know, I'm real fun at parties.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

Of course not, but I'm just kind of curious how widespread that kind of thing is outside of meathead athletic circles. I've never been in conversations like that or talked about women like that in my life. I've also never played sports except low-level high school. I'm not judging them, or being critical here, I'm just wondering how sheltered I am.

You're sheltered .

I probably said similar things to buddies on nights before the bar and after, back when I was single. And I can show you texts now (at 30 years old, including guys who are doctors, lawyers, etc) I have from friends talking about going out and getting bombed. While we're definitely having a good time still, it's completely exaggerated in terms of the conversation.

[Subby]

I agree with Bucc that it would be much better if we could just time transport back to the 1950s before all of this troublesome witchcraft started wreaking havoc.

[Buccaneer]

Not the 1950s but back to what to the church in Ephesus.

Don’t use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them. (Ephesians 4:29 NLT)

It applies to me too as I have been thinking about my reaction to the Sherman actions as well as seeing that Dutch skater. It all may be entertaining but there is a more positive path.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

You're sheltered .

I probably said similar things to buddies on nights before the bar and after, back when I was single. And I can show you texts now (at 30 years old, including guys who are doctors, lawyers, etc) I have from friends talking about going out and getting bombed. While we're definitely having a good time still, it's completely exaggerated in terms of the conversation.

My getting bombed days aren't over at 35, I guess I'm just kind of a prude when it comes to talking to friends about the quality of blowjobs, or about how "puss is hanging from my nuts". Though, I do find it entertaining when others go there.

[Logan]

Yeah I laughed my ass off.

[Ben E Lou]

In my skimming, I missed this. Just saw a snippet where some talking heads were discussing it. Does this force the league's hand on investigating at least Pouncey and Martin for drug use? (And of course this exchange would seem to indicate that Incognito is discouraging Martin from said drug use...)

9/12/2013 11:19R u alive?
Richie Incognito


9/12/2013 12:14
Haha yeah. That was fun
Jonathan Martin


9/12/2013 12:18
Hell yea Did u go to pouncey's after? I'll
kill u if u did
Richie Incognito


9/12/2013 12:18
Lol hell no
Jonathan Martin


9/12/2013 12:18
No drugs for me rest of season
Jonathan Martin


9/12/2013 12:27
Goooood That shit is ridiculous
Richie Incognito

[Logan]

Lot of drug talk either stated or obviously redacted.

[CU Tiger]

I can only speak for myself.
My conversation topic, language and vulgarity ranges greatly depending on who I'm talking to and I suppose the same is true of most.

One of my oldest friends from HS and college is "semi famous" guy a politician at the state level.(intentionally a touch vague) and I promise if our texts were public he would suffer politically and publically.

That's what is fucked up. I feel like Martin's mommy saw these texts or something and he cant just own up to his behavior. That or he is looking for a payday.

[RomaGoth]

This just smells of Martin wanting to get out of Miami. I don't get the impression he wants to stop playing football (although he could be, I don't know him personally), just sounds like maybe he was tired of the Miami Dolphin circus act. Did he have a problem with Ireland? With Philbin? Teammates? We will probably never know for sure what is going on in his head, but these text messages go a long ways toward implicating him at least as much as Incognito, if not more so.

[Logan]

Incognito is on Twitter doing his best to unwind any of the public support that went back in his favor after all those texts were released.

@68INCOGNITO: FACT: Jonathan Martin told me he thought about taking his own life MAY 2013 b/c he wasnt playing well

[jeff061]

Yes. Oh well, I guess there's a reason that moron had the reputation he did before all this Martin garbage.

[Travis]

I'm sure his lawyer is going to appreciate having his phone number posted on there too.

[mauchow]

It would not surprise me to find out hes gay at this rate...

[flere-imsaho]

I have to say that I cannot comprehend, at all, sending that amount of texts.

If that makes me an old fogey, so be it.

I mean, I can see how people do it, and why they'd do it. I'm just saying that personally I can't comprehend ever using texting to that extent.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I have to say that I cannot comprehend, at all, sending that amount of texts.

If that makes me an old fogey, so be it.

I mean, I can see how people do it, and why they'd do it. I'm just saying that personally I can't comprehend ever using texting to that extent.

I'm going to assume I don't text nearly as much as they do since on screen keyboards drive me nuts and I don't have anything interesting to say. But I'm sure someone would say "8K messages on a message board?!? what kind of nut would do that"

SI

[Logan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I have to say that I cannot comprehend, at all, sending that amount of texts.

If that makes me an old fogey, so be it.

I mean, I can see how people do it, and why they'd do it. I'm just saying that personally I can't comprehend ever using texting to that extent.

At some point the format of texting seemed to change from more of a large block of text, sent as one message...

To going in much more of a conversation style

Where virtually every sentence was sent separately

So over the course of expressing one or two basic thoughts

You've sent four messages to the other person.

Take that coming from both sides of a conversation, and those texts add up really quickly.

[Travis]

My family had this discussion a few weeks ago and I was semi-shocked when I looked up my usage history and found out I'm over 2k a month. Granted, I run a couple of teams year round and a third in the summer plus tournaments so I'm using it mostly for that. I shudder to think what the number of texts plus emails per month is at, meanwhile I can count actual phone conversations on one hand most months.

[chadritt]

im 32 and I honestly only have one friend that I talk to via phone. Everyone else except the parents is pretty much text only at this point.

[jeff061]

Once I found a keyboard software(Swiftkey) that I felt allowed me to type accurately, quickly and without added concentration my txt message habits sky rocketed. Work, friends, everyone.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by chadritt

im 32 and I honestly only have one friend that I talk to via phone. Everyone else except the parents is pretty much text only at this point.

I talk to my mom on the phone. I text to my wife and son. That's pretty much it.

(Now, if we were counting lines of chat? Ho-lee-shit.)

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by chadritt

im 32 and I honestly only have one friend that I talk to via phone. Everyone else except the parents is pretty much text only at this point.

Yeah same here.

I've found its great to keep up with my brothers and most friends as well. We hardly ever called each other before texting because it really is more of a commitment to interact...and thats assuming the other person is available.

Texting is great as you can just send that funny joke/image and let them look at it whenever. But its also nice for quick conversation topics as well. Just asked a friend of mine if he still had a waterbed the other day...which he informed has been gone for 10+ years. How else would I know such things?!

[Izulde]

Yeah reading through those texts, it looks really bad for Martin. The back and forth was no different than a lot of any pair of two guy friends. Hell, I'm that way with a few of my friends.

Like CU Tiger said upthread it all depends on who I'm talking to and what the situation is.

[RainMaker]

This is the dumbest story in the history of sports.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is the dumbest story in the history of sports.

Surely not dumber than most everything out of Manchester City when Balotelli, Tevez and Mancini were all there?

[Berger]

The Ted Wells Report is out. You can read it here: Report to the Commissioner of the National Football League

Looks like they're backing Martin's side of the story.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Berger

Looks like they're backing Martin's side of the story.

In a politically correct world, I never really expected anything else.

[Berger]

Yeah, figured such too. Had no idea another o-lineman and assistant trainer would be involved too, though.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

In a politically correct world, I never really expected anything else.

So they are wrong then?

[korme]

The Worst Stuff From The Dolphins Investigation [Updating]

I tend to side with Incognito on all of this. Yeah, he's a dick and a douche, but he's a 6'5 300 something athlete with everything handed to him on a silver platter all life. Of course he's going to have immature conversations. And Martin seemed to play along, 90% of the time. And then all of the sudden, without warning, it was a problem?

[JPhillips]

The racial stuff, not just to teammates, but also to training staff is way out of line. I don't care what sort of privilege you have growing up you have to know that's wrong.

[Logan]

Agreed. I have a much bigger problem with how they treated the trainer than how they treated Martin.

[PilotMan]

I tend to side with the bullied in most cases. They try and fly under the radar, they go along to avoid rocking the boat, they want to fit in and feel like they are part of the crowd. They are willing to bend their own morals to make that happen. They lack self confidence and belief that they can stand alone and be strong standing up against the tide. They are easy targets because they don't fight back. Then one day they decide they can't do it anymore and they change.

Incognito is a textbook bully. Playing along like they are best friends and ready to strike back in vengeance the first chance he gets. I wouldn't side with him in a dark alley.

[JPhillips]

The texts from Martin to his parents just rip my heart out.

[Arles]

Yeah, Incognito is an idiot. I agree that the stuff he said about the trainer was uncalled for. He's not a player nor in the "locker room frat" so all the defenses for Richy fall out there.

As to Martin, I really don't see anything that bad when viewed in context. None of it is PC, but it seems like he participated in most of the discussions and never seemed to have an issue with it until the end (which also coincided with him getting benched). But, for how they all treated the trainer, they should face a penalty.

[Travis]

Yeah, the texts between Incognito and Martin, something you'll probably see between a lot of people, but hard to fully know tone/situation. The texts between Incognito and Pouncey, a bit more alarming, the texts about the guns, pretty damn sad. The reports of how Incognito was disciplined for how he treated a female staffer at a golfing event, how he and others treated the trainer, etc, push this well over the limit of acceptable behaviour, even in a setting as alpha male as the NFL.

[Arles]

Honestly, I don't have the demeanor to be a heart surgeon or the discipline to be a military sniper. I could try both professions, but at some point I would probably have a very high amount of anxiety and want to quit. Seems like Martin is in the same boat when it comes to dealing with the NFL lifestyle. Being an NFL lineman, MMA fighter, or boxer involves having a different personality than a lot of "normal people". Unless you just have an immense amount of talent, you are doing to need to be a little nasty and have a disposition that rubs people the wrong way. Now, Incognito is above and beyond a reasonable expectation for that attitude - but I see Martin with a great deal of personal awareness. I think he realized that his demeanor did not equate to having a successful NFL career. He would probably be a great doctor or dentist, but not the best "trenches" NFL player. It will be interesting to see if he continues to play. For his sake, I hope gets enough money from the Dolphins and whatever settlement comes from this to do what really makes him happy. My thinking is that won't involve NFL football.