04-25-2012, 09:40 AM | #1 | ||
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New Debt Collector Hangout: The Emergency Room
Debt Collectors Take Places Alongside Hospital Staffs - NYTimes.com
Incredibly slimy. I'm all for people paying their bills (and this is coming from someone who's paying off two ER Visits so far this year), but A) Not identifying themselves as debt collectors (posing as hospital employees), and B) Apparently discouraging people from possible life-saving treatments.... Just wow. Last edited by SirFozzie : 04-25-2012 at 09:44 AM. |
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04-25-2012, 09:53 AM | #2 | ||
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Awesome. I find it hard to believe that this will turn out well for the hospitals or the collection agencies. It could, in fact, turn into a PR nightmare.
Oh, and if the hospitals are losing so much money, perhaps they should stop serving illegals, no? Just my $0.02.
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04-25-2012, 09:58 AM | #3 |
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Surely aspects of this violate HIPAA.
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04-25-2012, 10:04 AM | #4 |
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04-25-2012, 10:38 AM | #5 |
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I had to read the article just to figure out exactly how the collectors were posing as employees.
After reading I have to think somebody is going be paying a settlement to an A.G.'s office or two. Seems likely that there's not just one violation here, there's probably several.
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04-25-2012, 11:12 AM | #6 | |
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I agree and if there are HIPAA violations they carry some pretty stiff monetary penalties, including jail time depending on the extent of the violation. They are definitely treading on thin ice. |
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04-25-2012, 11:25 AM | #7 | |
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I was thinking the same thing as I read through this. They have got to be breaking multiple laws here. Why isn't the Minnesota AG filing charges? I know she's looking at the feds for help, but if she could prove 10% of the allegations there, it would cost the hospital and debt collectors millions. |
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04-25-2012, 11:28 AM | #8 | |
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I'm sure they'll be looking for big settlements. I know in Idaho, settlement money from medicaid fraud and other healthcare-related shenanigans basically pays for the entire AG's office. |
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04-25-2012, 11:37 AM | #9 | |
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Something tells me none of the big guys will be seeing any harsh monetary penalties or jail time... Andrew Appel - Executive Profile http://influenceexplorer.com/search?...an&from_form=1 |
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04-25-2012, 11:45 AM | #10 |
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Well, I wouldn't be too sure of that, at least their jobs are in jeopardy as the stock has dropped like a rock. They may not care about following the laws, but they don't like their stock dropping 25% in a day, as they are down more then 5 dollars a share so far:
Accretive Health, Inc. Common S Stock Chart | AH Interactive Chart - Yahoo! Finance
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04-25-2012, 11:49 AM | #11 |
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I find it amusing they stand to lose millions of dollars while trying to collect millions of dollars.
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04-25-2012, 11:54 AM | #12 |
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Worse then that, if the stock stays at the current level, they will have dropped about $300 million in market cap.. in ONE DAY.
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04-26-2012, 03:54 PM | #13 | |
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Ended up falling over 40% when the day was done, but rebounded today, going up 2%. Response from the CEO: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...torney-general And recent news: Accretive Health Investor Files Suit in Wake of Share Drop - Bloomberg |
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04-26-2012, 05:31 PM | #14 | |
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yeah, definitely wouldn't be actual citizens stiffing them here. Solid plan.
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04-26-2012, 05:59 PM | #15 | |
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You would be surprised, I get complaince bulletins monthly that lists punitive actions and there doesn't seem to be much favoritism given to the big guys, at least in terms of monetary penalties. |
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04-26-2012, 08:34 PM | #16 | |
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Charges have been filed a while back, but I think they only relate to the stolen laptop. |
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04-26-2012, 08:46 PM | #17 |
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When I hear they list 39 billion as their loss, I really wonder how trumped up that number is. Reimbursement rates are like 60%? Having to serve anyone is just a cost of doing business in that industry. It doesn't cost them 2000 to administer stitches or something. It's not like that type of procedure costs more than the sunk cost of the staffing they were already paying for.
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04-27-2012, 02:08 AM | #18 |
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Looks like the stock was the proverbial "dead cat" bounce, as they actually finished the day for a loss, down to $10.50, with apparently multiple lawsuits being eyed/launched for Gross violations of management's fiduciary duties to shareholders, and one lawsuit alleges that:
he Complaint alleges that throughout the Class Period, defendants made materially false and misleading statements, and omitted materially adverse facts, about the Company’s business, operations and prospects. Specifically, the Complaint alleges that Accretive Health failed to disclose that the Company was violating health privacy laws, state debt collections laws and state consumer protection laws. As a result of defendants’ false and misleading statements, the Company’s stock traded at artificially inflated prices ... The Complaint also alleges that these true facts, which were known by the defendants but concealed from the investing public during the Class Period, were as follows: (a) the Company was violating privacy standards under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act and the Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health Act by, among other things, (i) failing to provide appropriate safeguards to prevent the misuse or disclosure of protected health information; (ii) failing to keep all protected health information strictly confidential; and (iii) failing to develop, implement, maintain and use appropriate technical and physical safeguards to preserve the integrity, confidentiality and availability of protected health information and to prevent non-permitted use or disclosure of the information; (b) the Company failed to encrypt protected patient health information; (c) the Company was violating terms of its contract with Fairview by failing to limit access of protected health information to the persons or classes of persons in its workforce who needed access to it in order to carry out their duties; (d) the Company was violating Minnesota state debt collection laws by, among other things, failing to provide patients with required disclosures identifying itself as a debt collection agency; (e) the Company was violating Minnesota consumer protection laws by, among other things, failing to disclose to patients the extent of the Company’s access to data and the manner in which it utilizes such data; and (f) the effect the Company’s violations of health privacy laws, state debt collection laws and state consumer protections law would have on its future earnings and on its relationship with Fairview.
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04-27-2012, 09:30 AM | #19 | |
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I don't think I saw that 39 billion figure, where did you see that? My guess is that "loss" could mean "claims" in that case. |
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04-27-2012, 09:58 AM | #20 | |
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Weird, I thought I looked after close yesterday and it had gone up slightly, but now it looks like it went down overall yesterday. I think the news I posted of one of the investors suing the company came after the market closed, and today so far it's another 7% decrease. |
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04-27-2012, 10:45 AM | #21 | |
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Still, hospitals are in a bind. The more than 5,000 community hospitals in the United States provided $39.3 billion in uncompensated care — predominately unpaid patient debts or charity care — in 2010, up 16 percent from 2007, the hospital association estimated. |
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04-27-2012, 10:47 AM | #22 |
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Wait, so they lost about half of their stock value because of this article?
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04-27-2012, 11:02 AM | #23 | |
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Considering the health care industry is a $3T industry, boo-effing-hoo. "I have to give away one penny on the dollar so that explains why we charge $500 for a procedure that costs $5 in supplies and is done in 10 minutes by someone we pay $15 an hour". If costs weren't so grossly exaggerated, that number would be much, much lower. SI
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04-27-2012, 11:02 AM | #24 | |
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Yes. And that's after a 17% decrease that already came at the beginning of the month, when the announcement was made that the revenue cycle agreement between Fairview and Accretive was canceled. |
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04-27-2012, 11:08 AM | #25 | |
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Thanks. Yeah, that's got to be tough to measure, especially if we're talking across hospitals, and considering that the hospital receives varying levels of compensation depending on who's paying, whether it's a commercial insurer, government insurer, or the patient. I guess since no compensation is received this could all be considered patient, so yeah, that makes it trumped up in a way, since commercial and government insurers generally pay providers less than uninsured patients. |
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04-27-2012, 11:59 AM | #26 | |
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Trola
Fairview hospitals executive admits 'mistakes were made' | StarTribune.com Quote:
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04-27-2012, 12:31 PM | #27 |
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04-27-2012, 12:34 PM | #28 | |
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Here's some stuff from a HIPAA blog:
HIPAA Blog Quote:
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04-27-2012, 01:45 PM | #29 |
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Wouldn't HIPAA have been violated in the alleged instances of collectors showing up at bed sides or confronting people awaiting care? They wouldn't have known to go after these people without being alerted by hospital staff or some system that dings whenever someone checked into the facility. But you can't release information about people currently in the hospital/receiving healthcare without their written consent. Even if it's presumed the person wouldn't pay their bill, it doesn't mean you can violate their right of privacy to get them to pay a past due bill. I would gather you would need to wait until after that bill is past due before alerting the agency.
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04-27-2012, 02:19 PM | #30 | ||
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The volume of the compliance review that deals with privacy violations doesn't mention that specifically. My guess is that the reason that's the case is because of this: Quote:
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04-27-2012, 02:22 PM | #31 | |
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Here's a little more info on how that figure was determined, if you're curious: http://www.aha.org/content/12/11-unc...fact-sheet.pdf |
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04-27-2012, 03:27 PM | #32 |
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Thanks-
I like page 4, where it shows that this cost has remained right around 6% for the past 25 or so years. |
04-27-2012, 03:34 PM | #33 |
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04-27-2012, 06:45 PM | #34 | |
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So, that happened. |
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04-27-2012, 08:44 PM | #35 | |
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Accretive Health Announces Termination of its Quality and Total Cost of Care Services Contract by Fairview Health Services - MarketWatch
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04-27-2012, 09:16 PM | #36 |
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Wow. Gutsy move. Trying to brazen it out (I guess if they mea culpa'd the lawsuits would eat them alive).
Stock fell further today, to $9.33 a share, down another dollar plus.
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04-27-2012, 09:58 PM | #37 | |
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I'm not sure what you mean with the first paragraph? But yes, an 11% drop today, so it's been about what stevew said -- lost nearly half its value in 3 days, 18.54 end of Tuesday, 9.33 end of day today. This latest news came after the market closed, but I don't really see it as being significant. |
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04-29-2012, 10:07 AM | #38 | |
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Statement from Accretive Health - Yahoo! Finance
Seems like this reply took longer than it should have, and releasing it on a Saturday doesn't seem wise. Quote:
Last edited by Passacaglia : 04-29-2012 at 10:08 AM. |
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05-01-2012, 09:49 AM | #39 | |
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Makes sense. At this point, a settlement to keep things out of the press is not really an option.
Accretive Health shares rise after company disputes allegations - chicagotribune.com Quote:
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05-01-2012, 11:10 AM | #40 |
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Looks like the Illinois AG is asking the Minnesota AG "How can we help with your investigation?"
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05-01-2012, 11:27 AM | #41 |
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05-01-2012, 12:31 PM | #42 | |
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If they are in the E.R., then they can't. Quote:
A narrow-minded view of how health care works--it's not that simple. Last edited by Galaxy : 05-01-2012 at 12:34 PM. |
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05-01-2012, 01:05 PM | #43 |
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http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...ection-tactics Accretive Health Asks Court to Toss State of Minnesota Suit - Businessweek “We are reaching out to the Minnesota attorney general’s office, to get a sense of what they’re working on,” to see if Illinois authorities can be of assistance, said Natalie Bauer, a spokeswoman for Illinois’ Attorney General Lisa Madigan, in a telephone interview today. Because it is a collections agency, Accretive Health holds a license issued by Illinois’ Department of Financial and Professional Regulation. A spokeswoman for that agency, Sue Hofer, today said the department has authority to lift a license in the event a licensee is found to have committed wrongdoing in another state. “We’ve been aware of the Minnesota attorney general’s investigation,” Hofer said, adding that state law bars her from confirming or denying whether Accretive is being probed by her agency.
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05-01-2012, 01:40 PM | #44 | |
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Thanks -- that's the story I saw last week, just wondering if there was anything new this week. |
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05-02-2012, 09:56 AM | #45 | |
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Seems like a good time to have your annual shareholders meeting:
Accretive Health's annual meeting closed to media - Chicago Tribune Quote:
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05-03-2012, 09:33 AM | #46 |
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05-04-2012, 09:59 AM | #47 |
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Judging by my several consecutive posts in this thread, you can probably tell that this story affects me pretty personally (no layoffs yet, but we're not sure what's going to happen after a 60-day transition period). Anyway, I've been reading articles about it so much that it's hard to tell how big of a story it is for everyone else. But I guess if it's on The Colbert Report, it's pretty big:
Accretive Health scandal prompts new word from Colbert: debt panels |
05-04-2012, 12:54 PM | #48 |
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Sorry to hear that, Pass
I keep watching the stock, and kept thinking that it has to bottom out some time, and start to rise, but so far, nothing, although it's flat today.
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05-04-2012, 01:09 PM | #49 | |
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It's no big, I actually wasn't liking it much -- the work I do is pretty good (and has nothing to do with debt collecting), but the commute and hours are more than what I'd like. So I'd been looking for other things already. And we've been saying that we want one of us to stay home with the twins that are due in June, so if nothing else comes up, that'll be me. I keep watching the stock too (even though I don't have any) -- it's 1/3 of what it was last week. Yeah, no movement today, and this may be the first day where nothing of interest has actually happened. |
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05-06-2012, 08:26 AM | #50 | |
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http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...face-of-crisis
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