Special Teams

[aston217]

BEN EDIT:

TO KEEP UP WITH THE JONESES IN SPECIAL TEAMS:

1. Get 10ish guys on your roster with high ST ratings. I shoot for 80ish and above, but if everyone is doing this, then probably 65ish would have to do.
2. Each season, "Encourage" your top 10ish ST-rated guys.
3. "Discourage" EVERYONE else. (That means every DL and OL player, just to be safe.)

When you do this, you will be able to keep up. If nearly everyone does this, we'll see things come back closer to even in ST performance spread. And people who do not do this will get dominated on ST every week.


How many ST guys do you need?

Is it just the two gunners, or do you pay attention to the other guys on the ST unit as well?

Let's say given a equal ST bar between these players, which one do you put as your gunner? The DB, the LB, the RB, the WR, the FB, or the TE?

How can you tell who the CPU will select for the rest your ST coverage units (aside from the two gunners)? For instance, let's say you have six or seven CBs and receivers with 70+ ST. Not a lot of good that will do for your coverage, if there *has* to be a couple of big linemen and a couple of linebacker/TE/FB types on the field for kickoffs and punts, no matter what.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by aston217

How many ST guys do you need?

Is it just the two gunners, or do you pay attention to the other guys on the ST unit as well?

Let's say given a equal ST bar between these players, which one do you put as your gunner? The DB, the LB, the RB, the WR, the FB, or the TE?

How can you tell who the CPU will select for the rest your ST coverage units (aside from the two gunners)? For instance, let's say you have six or seven CBs and receivers with 70+ ST. Not a lot of good that will do for your coverage, if there *has* to be a couple of big linemen and a couple of linebacker/TE/FB types on the field for kickoffs and punts, no matter what.

FWIW, I ran a test where I made sure EVERY player on my team was "Not Encouraged" to play Special Teams. Ran a sim. Noted the players who were on Special Teams plays. It looked like they took the best Special Teamers on the team (I didn't note positions or anything of the players they chose to put on ST's). After I realized that ST's players had been filled out apparently, I went back to view my roster, and everyone was still on "Not Encouraged". So I dunno what's going on. I do know that if you Encourage a player for ST, they seem to be the guys who rex likes to put in the gunner/pr/kr spots.

EDIT: Would like to point out that the AI had no roster play at all in this test.

[Kozure]

Pay attention to all that are on special teams. Not Encourage all players that are bad at ST and Encourage all that are good at it and you will notice a hefty increase in special teams coverage. I've had in the past kick return coverage units that give up 10 yards a return and punt coverage that gives up .4 yards a return. It all depends on how anal you want to be about having great special teams units. But play starters at ST too. Simply put, encourage your top 11 special teamers regardless if they start.

That does not stop tue occassional return TD. I think that is decided on another dice roll.

[Kozure]

That is also a good way to have good coverage teams with bad kickers too. And should add your return teams do much better.

[aston217]

But Kozure, does it really make sense that your punt coverages will return if you have 5 90+ ST WRs, and 5 90+ST DBs? Let's say all your linebackers, fullbacks, etc, have no ST at all. A punt unit should include those bigger players, too.

I guess what I am wondering is...at what point does it become diminishing returns?

[Kozure]

I'm assuming u will spread it around and have ST guy at all positions. Typically, I'd focus on 2 at safety, corner, OLB, 1-2 at ILB, 2 at receiver, one at TE and 2 at RB/FB. Leave good O and D linemen turned on too since they see time as well.

Like I said, u need to be anal about it to get a really good unit together. But if you do, you'll see ridiculous results against anyone who isn't doing the same thing.

[Firefly]

It's still pretty unpredictable how the game chooses who plays ST, even with encouraged/not encouraged. Sometimes it falls in love with a certain player who sucks at ST, or decides not to play a certain ST ace (usually cause he's a starter, but not always).

[aston217]

If that is the case, it is unclear to me if there are any distinct advantages to have more than 2 stud ST players to fill the gunner positions on the depth chart. I usually have the same approach as Kozure (although not as picky about the position splits).

Let's say for the sake of argument that you have a cornerback - 5'11, 195 lbs - rated a 70 at ST. And you have a 6'1, 250 lb fullback rated a 99 at ST. Who's your gunner? It makes "sense" to put the corner there, but we all know about FOF and making sense.

[Kozure]

Aston, I put the best ST players at the two gunner spots, regardless of the position they play. I've never noticed a drop off because you have a FB and not a CB at a gunner spot, but I haven't really paid attention to that.

Firefly, deactivating (Not Encourage) all bad special teams players will cause your special teams performance to go up, sometimes dramatically, regardless if those deactivated players still play on special teams. I don't know why this is the case, but I believe it has to do something with the game decides special teams performance by measuring the ST ratings of players "Encouraged" then it decides who to put on the field. Doesn't make much sense, but I believe it's how it works.

I also noticed that a player with good special teams but not good return skills can be a good at returns. I think yardage gained on a return is hugely impacted by special teams ratings while kickoff return touchdowns at impacted by the return ability. So the better all around ST ratings of all your Encouraged players is a major factor in return yardage gained on both sides of the ball.

I've also never noticed an increase in return touchdowns when you have a good special teams unit and good return specialist either, so I believe those return yardage and touchdowns are on two different dice rolls. That being said, you will not reduce the number of return TDs against you.

This is all just what I've noticed. I used to do this stuff all the time with great success. It won't be uncommon to see your return unit give up 2 yard kickoff returns and -7 punt returns. But the occasional TD will still occur against you.

[aston217]

Hehe, it just doesn't sound logical that a plodding fullback could possibly be an equal gunner to a corner or safety or receiver. But hey, that's the game, right?

--

Your point about the return game is very interesting, as I've noticed that as well. I saw some rookie with zero return ability actually made the Pro Bowl as a returner in one of my leagues a couple years back - he had a high ST rating.

I haven't thought of that too much since, but you reminded me of it. I suppose a consequence of that is, guys with no ST skills but plenty of return skills won't be world-beaters at KR/PR, but they can run back a mean interception if need be.

--

What do you average on those KRs and PRs, by the way?

[Kozure]

What do you average on those KRs and PRs, by the way?[/quote]

Here are some screens of my RNFL team the steelers. Should give you a good idea of how well a special teams unit can do.

Please note that in the first picture, the teams of Houston, Washington, Los Angeles and my team Pittsburgh are the only ones that know the special teams secret (if you want to call it that) that I know of in the RNFL.

In the second pic only Washington, LA and Pittsburgh know. And only Pittsburgh and LA know in third pic.

For the record, Houston "kkiley" and Washington "mike17" are two guys I've worked with and Los Angeles is my brother.



___________



___________

[Kozure]

aston, I've had a team average 19 yards per punt return as a team before. Don't think I returned a single touchdown that year either, so that 19 yards was 'pure' -- meaning 19 yards per return not counting TD returns.

If you want a good way to see how well your return team is doing, you need to discount the touchdowns you give up or score, then see what your average is.

[Kozure]

I'll just add, i'm particularly impressed with my .2 yards per punt return that I gave up in the final pic.

[Dawgfan19]

Kozure, how much time do you typically spend on special teams in TC?

[Kozure]

I leave ST time alone in TC or take 10 min out of it.

[Dawgfan19]

Thanks for your reply and for sharing your ST expertise. And congrats on that .2 punt return average.

I have a couple of other questions.

One of my team's has the following ratings for the top 11 ST players: 90s 2, 80s 2, 70s 2, 60s 2, 50s 3. Is this sufficient or should I try to improve my ST players?

Also, how critical are the kickers? My punter has power of 40, hang time 94 but only directional of 0. Kicker has power 33, distance 36 and hang time 32. I'd like to improve that (especially the kicker), but there is nothing in the FA market.

[aston217]

I carry two kickers sometimes, one just for kickoffs. I think it helps a lot.

Thanks Kozure for all the insight! You are definitely a cut above what I have managed to achieve.

And your thread helped me get a trade done in the CyFL!

[w24olfpack]

Originally Posted by Firefly

It's still pretty unpredictable how the game chooses who plays ST, even with encouraged/not encouraged. Sometimes it falls in love with a certain player who sucks at ST, or decides not to play a certain ST ace (usually cause he's a starter, but not always).

I've looked thru alot of game logs lately and I've noticed several things.

1.) Encouraged players play on returns. So KR / KR coverage / PR / PR Coverage.
2.) When non encouraged players play it's on FG / FG Defense / XP / XP defense. Have noticed it really jumbo's up there with DT's and OL even when not encouraged.

You have to go thru the solevision log after each play to see it but it's held up consistently in the small sample size of games I've looked at (4). I'm sure there are other weird things but I was trying to figure out why a player I had not-encouraged all year finished 10th in ST plays for one of my teams.

I try to keep 12-14 good to great ST players on a roster and I typically do pretty well in Avg yards against on both KR and PR and decent on yards for even with mediocre bar returners.

[Kozure]

Originally Posted by Dawgfan19

Thanks for your reply and for sharing your ST expertise. And congrats on that .2 punt return average.

I have a couple of other questions.

One of my team's has the following ratings for the top 11 ST players: 90s 2, 80s 2, 70s 2, 60s 2, 50s 3. Is this sufficient or should I try to improve my ST players?

Also, how critical are the kickers? My punter has power of 40, hang time 94 but only directional of 0. Kicker has power 33, distance 36 and hang time 32. I'd like to improve that (especially the kicker), but there is nothing in the FA market.

Those 11 ST players seem good enough for me. See what happens when you make them the only 11 encouraged players. But I would also leave active your starting offensive and defensive linemen for field goals and punts. I didn't mention that above, I don't think.

Kickers and punters are important, but not the deciding factor. You will get more out of discouraging bad special team players than you will by adding a good kicker. But if you can get both (good kicker and good special teamers) then you will do better, of course.

Hang time is important, but I usually focus on kickoff distance when no stud kicker/punter is available. You will still see good results even without a strong hang time score.

[MRL17]

I'll add a few things just from my personal experience:

The game seems to like to take a few players from each position for the special teams unit, so you want to spread guys around. You'll have a harder time getting 4 WRs on the special teams unit consistently than if you had 2 WRs, a RB, and a CB who had high special teams bars.

Hang time works wonders. The better your punter/kicker's hang time, the less return yards you give up. This is especially good for getting negative yardage returns.

Always keep 2 aces for your gunner spots. I generally have 2+ guys on the roster with 90's in special teams just to be gunners. Gunners have a better chance to make tackles than other guys on your ST unit and when they do, the returner gets fewer yards if the gunner is a good one.

Do not encourage anyone without a special teams bar. This includes QBs, Lineman, Punters/Kickers. It may seem counter intuitive, but I see much better returns for my team, and much worse returns for my opponents by doing it this way. Try to keep your 11 best ST guys on the field and nobody else.

Hope that helps... and I don't have any statistics to back any of this up except the results Kozzy posted. (I was Washington)

[aston217]

It makes sense to me that the game would spread things around between the groups of {RB,WR,CB,S}, {TE/FB}, LB, and linemen. It makes less sense that it would play the numbers game with say, CB and S, as opposed to just looking at their ST ratings.

One thing I usually do is look at the lighter DL (usually just the DEs), converting them to LB just to see what their ST rating is, to decide whether to activate or not.

Will it really make a difference is QBs are encouraged or not?

[Kozure]

Originally Posted by aston217

It makes sense to me that the game would spread things around between the groups of {RB,WR,CB,S}, {TE/FB}, LB, and linemen. It makes less sense that it would play the numbers game with say, CB and S, as opposed to just looking at their ST ratings.

One thing I usually do is look at the lighter DL (usually just the DEs), converting them to LB just to see what their ST rating is, to decide whether to activate or not.

Will it really make a difference is QBs are encouraged or not?

I'd turn off anyone that sucks at special teams, even bad centers who are good at long snapping (because maybe they are called to play in punt coverage situation as a position other than a long snapper.). You will then need to go in and manually put that player in as a long snapper or kick holder.

Guards, Tackles, DEs and DTs also play ST at times so turn off anyone that is poorly rated. I usually keep 1 center, 2 guards, 2 tackles, 2 DEs and 2 DTs Encouraged for special teams, and I usually keep my best players at those positions (starters).

Just a note, I think there is a slight increase in the number of field goal blocks and kicks you get. I'm not sure if I imagine this, but it seems to be the case.

[strickzilla]

ive usually had pretty good special teams and was one of the few who made sure i had good KR/PR but i must admit after looking thru this i made some small tweaks, mainly letting starters play ST and i had my first blocked punt. however i will say ive never had a punt return for a td even when my PR guy was 83 in pr. ill get 1 KR for a TD usually every year. any suggestions on my PR situation?

[Kozure]

Strickzilla, it's purely a dice roll. You've just been unlucky with punt return TDs.

I don't have a lot evidence to back this up, but I don't believe the ST ratings of "encouraged" players have anything to do with return touchdowns. That is purely decided by kick/punt returners ratings and, probably, the hangtime of the kicker. The special team ratings affect only yards per return. If that makes any sense.

I just know that when I focus on ST ratings I've had huge increases in yardage but no increases in TDs.

[w24olfpack]

Seems like PR / KR TD's are like lightning strikes.

Was averaging 3.3 yards against in PR in a league this year and a PR who's career average of 5 and change took one to the House.

Seems to be the definition of random.

[thenewchuckd]

Originally Posted by w24olfpack

Was averaging 3.3 yards against in PR in a league this year and a PR who's career average of 5 and change took one to the House.

Seems to be the definition of random.

Just want to add that the same guy just returned another one for a TD in my last playoff game. I gots me some good dice going in the USFL these days.

[w24olfpack]

Originally Posted by thenewchuckd

Just want to add that the same guy just returned another one for a TD in my last playoff game. I gots me some good dice going in the USFL these days.

We are off to Vegas with those dice roles.

[beargrowlz]

My take on it is here. YMMV. Hope it helps.

Cheers,
-Bear

[burtcokain]

So would you have key starters as your gunners on ST?

I have a stud RB and MLB, both with 100 ST rating, but I have 85-ish rated WR and CB as my gunners instead, because the RB and ILB only have average endurance and I don't want them to get injured covering a kick.

(I do have my RB and MLB as encouraged though, but they don't actually get many ST plays usually)

[Kozure]

burt, I usually let the AI decide gunners and just make sure anyone (including starters) are encouraged for special teams. But if you are worried about injury, then "Not Encourage" them.

I don't usually worry about injury, though. I believe special teams only slightly increases the injury chances, and the payoff with the increased production with your special teams unit is usually worth it, in my opinion.

Though there is a belief that players get fatigued from playing on special teams. I see no evidence to that one way or another.

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by burtcokain

So would you have key starters as your gunners on ST?

I have a stud RB and MLB, both with 100 ST rating....)

Yes, I would have them as my gunners.

Cheers,
-Bear

[strickzilla]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

Yes, I would have them as my gunners.

Cheers,
-Bear

lol guess this is another case when real football gets in the way cause all i can see when i think about using my starters on st is Jason Seahorn

[aston217]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

My take on it is here. YMMV. Hope it helps.

Cheers,
-Bear

Thanks for the insight, Bear.

Here is another ST question, only about holders. I have a rookie punter on one of my teams, 92 kick holding. The past two field goal attempts in a row, 39 and 40 yards, have flubbed because of his holding. Is there some cohesion factor here with holders, or is this just some fluke?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Kozure

Pay attention to all that are on special teams. Not Encourage all players that are bad at ST and Encourage all that are good at it and you will notice a hefty increase in special teams coverage. I've had in the past kick return coverage units that give up 10 yards a return and punt coverage that gives up .4 yards a return. It all depends on how anal you want to be about having great special teams units. But play starters at ST too. Simply put, encourage your top 11 special teamers regardless if they start.

Kozure, having played with this idea since you posted it, I'm pretty much convinced that this, especially the bolded part, is the Rosetta Stone of ST play in FOF.

I'll add to the body of knowledge here that my comments elsewhere about spending only 1 minute on ST in TC are validated by the stuff in this thread. The more I use 1 minute and ramp up ST play, the more obvious it becomes that the 1 minute time isn't hurting me on PR,KR, or on coverage. My speculation is that it causes more miscues such as blocked punts and bad snaps, but those are so rare anyway that adding another 2 or 3 per season just doesn't hurt you very much.

I finally got around to focusing on ST bars and doing the "Encouraged/Not Encouraged" thing for every single player on the roster in multiple MP leagues, still using only 1 minute on ST in TC. The sample size for the numbers below is a total of 10 games, across 4 leagues (and in all four leagues, I used 1 minute in TC for ST)...

PR Avg: 12.2
avg rtg of PR1: 55
avg rtg of PR2: 38

KR Avg: 27.9
avg rtg of KR1: 63
avg rtg of KR2: 36

Opp PR Average: 1.0
Opp KR Average: 15.9

Average rating of the top 10 "Encouraged" ST guys from all teams: 79.4

So, based on what I'm seeing in MP and what I've seen in SP, I'm leaning heavily toward thinking that the key factors are along these lines...

PUNT AND KICK RETURNS: PR/KR ratings of return men and ST ratings are both important, likely ST ratings being more important. TC time is a near or complete non-factor.

PUNT AND KICK COVERAGE: ST ratings (and Encourage/Discourage clickfests) rule the roost. Ability of your kicker and punter have moderate importance at best, maybe only small importance.* TC time is a near or complete non-factor.


*--As I get further into the seasons in the four leagues, I'll try to clarify this a bit more, but the bottom line is that it appears that if you have 10 guys with great ST ratings, Encourage them, and Discourage everyone else, your opp PR/KR numbers will be teh awesome no matter how good or bad your punter and kicker are. My assumption is that if your punter and kicker are also teh awesome, those numbers will be *really* teh awesome, as opposed to *merely* teh awesome, but I wonder about diminishing returns, at least until more people start doing this.

[conception]

I usually leave my best players off ST because I seem to have a bad habit of important players getting injured, even though I have a good injury avoidance coach and perfectly moderate injury settings, I seem to end up getting far more injuries than other teams (and not just to injury prone players). Reading this thread, I may change my mind, because my ST have been completely terrible for most of my tenure, even with great returners.

[aston217]

One thing I have noticed is that with less time in ST this TC, my young developing kicker has been sucking it up.

[Kozure]

Originally Posted by conception

I usually leave my best players off ST because I seem to have a bad habit of important players getting injured, even though I have a good injury avoidance coach and perfectly moderate injury settings, I seem to end up getting far more injuries than other teams (and not just to injury prone players). Reading this thread, I may change my mind, because my ST have been completely terrible for most of my tenure, even with great returners.

I think the increase in injuries is so small it's not worth worrying about. Play your starters until they are dead!!!

Questions I have about playing key players on STs involves fatigue. I feel it doesnt tire them out but would like to look at it more.

[Kozure]

Originally Posted by aston217

One thing I have noticed is that with less time in ST this TC, my young developing kicker has been sucking it up.

Possibility that his struggles may have more to do with him being a young developing kicker, no?

[aston217]

Of course, I was just speculating that perhaps the ST time in TC affects the kicking game, in addition to returns/coverage and botched snaps/blocked punts. Wouldn't that make sense?

[Kozure]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Kozure, having played with this idea since you posted it, I'm pretty much convinced that this, especially the bolded part, is the Rosetta Stone of ST play in FOF.

I'll add to the body of knowledge here that my comments elsewhere about spending only 1 minute on ST in TC are validated by the stuff in this thread. The more I use 1 minute and ramp up ST play, the more obvious it becomes that the 1 minute time isn't hurting me on PR,KR, or on coverage. My speculation is that it causes more miscues such as blocked punts and bad snaps, but those are so rare anyway that adding another 2 or 3 per season just doesn't hurt you very much.

I finally got around to focusing on ST bars and doing the "Encouraged/Not Encouraged" thing for every single player on the roster in multiple MP leagues, still using only 1 minute on ST in TC. The sample size for the numbers below is a total of 10 games, across 4 leagues (and in all four leagues, I used 1 minute in TC for ST)...

PR Avg: 12.2
avg rtg of PR1: 55
avg rtg of PR2: 38

KR Avg: 27.9
avg rtg of KR1: 63
avg rtg of KR2: 36

Opp PR Average: 1.0
Opp KR Average: 15.9

Average rating of the top 10 "Encouraged" ST guys from all teams: 79.4

So, based on what I'm seeing in MP and what I've seen in SP, I'm leaning heavily toward thinking that the key factors are along these lines...

PUNT AND KICK RETURNS: PR/KR ratings of return men and ST ratings are both important, likely ST ratings being more important. TC time is a near or complete non-factor.

PUNT AND KICK COVERAGE: ST ratings (and Encourage/Discourage clickfests) rule the roost. Ability of your kicker and punter have moderate importance at best, maybe only small importance.* TC time is a near or complete non-factor.


*--As I get further into the seasons in the four leagues, I'll try to clarify this a bit more, but the bottom line is that it appears that if you have 10 guys with great ST ratings, Encourage them, and Discourage everyone else, your opp PR/KR numbers will be teh awesome no matter how good or bad your punter and kicker are. My assumption is that if your punter and kicker are also teh awesome, those numbers will be *really* teh awesome, as opposed to *merely* teh awesome, but I wonder about diminishing returns, at least until more people start doing this.

Yeah, having a good enough ST unit nearly trivializes the role of kickers (kickoffs) and punters when trying to maximize ST coverage performance. I usually try to focus on kick distance with my kickers/punters since a good coverage unit can pick up the slack.

Something I've speculated: Some positions are used more than others on coverage or returns. I've had great to awesome coverage units but struggling return teams. In these cases it seems I have a good deal of strong ST players on the defensive side but not on offense. Would be nice to know, forexample, if linebackers increase kickoff coverage but not punt coverage. Not s huge deal, but interesting for those maximizing roster space.

Also, if you play another team doing this, both teams cancel each other out and both refurn and coverage teams will look mediocre.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Kozure

Also, if you play another team doing this, both teams cancel each other out and both refurn and coverage teams will look mediocre.

Yeah, I am assuming this to be the case. One thing that I haven't looked at, though, are the sheer numbers of highly-rated ST guys in a standard FOF league. Are there enough to go around? My top 10 ST guys for my IHOF Tucker team average a 90.1 ST rating. My gut tells me that even if everyone in the league does it, I'll have an advantage. That said, if O-Line and D-Line players have ST ratings at or near 0, it may be that we're talking about my 90-rated ST going up against others' 30-rated ST right now, so maybe 90 versus 65 wouldn't create the dominant performances that I'm seeing now.

[Kozure]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Yeah, I am assuming this to be the case. One thing that I haven't looked at, though, are the sheer numbers of highly-rated ST guys in a standard FOF league. Are there enough to go around? My top 10 ST guys for my IHOF Tucker team average a 90.1 ST rating. My gut tells me that even if everyone in the league does it, I'll have an advantage. That said, if O-Line and D-Line players have ST ratings at or near 0, it may be that we're talking about my 90-rated ST going up against others' 30-rated ST right now, so maybe 90 versus 65 wouldn't create the dominant performances that I'm seeing now.

No doubt that one team will be a little better than the other, but we will be comparing 22 yards per return to 24. It won't be a huge factor most of the time. But if the ST talent runs thin, which I don't see being a huge issue down the road since the ST talent is replenished each year, you have a distinct advantage for a few years.

I have found that regardless of drive starting position, the GMs that know what they are doing score points. The GMa that struggle balancing their offenses and see a great deal of familiars will be crushed.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Kozure

Pay attention to all that are on special teams. Not Encourage all players that are bad at ST and Encourage all that are good at it and you will notice a hefty increase in special teams coverage. I've had in the past kick return coverage units that give up 10 yards a return and punt coverage that gives up .4 yards a return. It all depends on how anal you want to be about having great special teams units. But play starters at ST too. Simply put, encourage your top 11 special teamers regardless if they start.

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Kozure, having played with this idea since you posted it, I'm pretty much convinced that this, especially the bolded part, is the Rosetta Stone of ST play in FOF.

Humpty Bumpty. So, yeah. Having done this in multiple MP leagues over the last few months, it's unquestionably the way to go, and if you're not doing it, you're going to fall behind. My IHOF team is averaging more than 15 yards per game field position differential. (We start on the 37. They start on the 22.) My BFL team averaged 38.5 yards per KO return for an entire season. Average punt return yards across multiple leagues for me is around 15.0 these days, and I don't think any of my teams are giving up more than 18 yards per KR or so.

One observation: I suspect that people are missing out on some good ST players because they don't think they can afford roster spots for guys who are good/great at ST but weak at everything else. I just checked my leagues. It happens that none of the 5 are in the offseason at the moment. In every one of them, there are a dozen or more players, just sitting there unwanted, rated 65 or better in ST. In other words, there's an entire G/VG special teams UNIT available for the grabbing, in every single league.

But my guess is that people want better backups than, say, this guy:

http://www.fof-woof.com/playercard.php?playerid=22374

I'm guessing people are forgoing a 34/34 backup safety for 40/40ish backups instead. When we consider how little a fourth safety actually plays on defense, how little impact he has against most teams when he's out there, the small difference in internal ratings on the 375-625 scale (460 vs. 475) between the two, and the impact that adding some guys like him could have on your ST, I strongly suspect that you get much greater mileage by sacrificing a bit of talent for your backups and beefing up your ST--especially now that more people are starting to implement this in their teams.

[Prinzar]

Thanks for bumping this, I missed it first time around.

I've always paid attention to ST but never thought of setting up who plays. My results have been poor lately so gonna try the encouraged/not encouraged thing from now and see what differences I get

[RomaGoth]

My only question really about the use of starters on ST is does it tend to increase starters' injuries vs. not playing them on ST? I was under the assumption that a lot of your starter's injuries take place while on ST.

[aston217]

I haven't actually noticed special teams being more injury inducive than any normal play.

Although there was this one time, bowl-contending playoff team in the OSFL, one of the last weeks in the regular season, starting quarterback gets knocked out for about five weeks holding a kick.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by aston217

I haven't actually noticed special teams being more injury inducive than any normal play.

I have no proof and haven't tested it, but my "sense of smell" from watching games in Solevision makes me suspect that the injury frequency on ST plays is lower than it is on normal plays in FOF.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I have no proof and haven't tested it, but my "sense of smell" from watching games in Solevision makes me suspect that the injury frequency on ST plays is lower than it is on normal plays in FOF.

If I get time, I'll dig the stats out.

[Kozure]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Humpty Bumpty. So, yeah. Having done this in multiple MP leagues over the last few months, it's unquestionably the way to go, and if you're not doing it, you're going to fall behind. My IHOF team is averaging more than 15 yards per game field position differential. (We start on the 37. They start on the 22.) My BFL team averaged 38.5 yards per KO return for an entire season. Average punt return yards across multiple leagues for me is around 15.0 these days, and I don't think any of my teams are giving up more than 18 yards per KR or so.

One observation: I suspect that people are missing out on some good ST players because they don't think they can afford roster spots for guys who are good/great at ST but weak at everything else. I just checked my leagues. It happens that none of the 5 are in the offseason at the moment. In every one of them, there are a dozen or more players, just sitting there unwanted, rated 65 or better in ST. In other words, there's an entire G/VG special teams UNIT available for the grabbing, in every single league.

But my guess is that people want better backups than, say, this guy:

http://www.fof-woof.com/playercard.php?playerid=22374

I'm guessing people are forgoing a 34/34 backup safety for 40/40ish backups instead. When we consider how little a fourth safety actually plays on defense, how little impact he has against most teams when he's out there, the small difference in internal ratings on the 375-625 scale (460 vs. 475) between the two, and the impact that adding some guys like him could have on your ST, I strongly suspect that you get much greater mileage by sacrificing a bit of talent for your backups and beefing up your ST--especially now that more people are starting to implement this in their teams.

Funny, I was thinking about bumping this thread too. I've come to the conclusion that GMs underestimate the importance of special teams to a very large degree.

If you think about it, a GM that does not focus on special teams is basically surrendering around 200 yards of field position per game to a team who does this stuff. This is an incredible number. So incredible that if you do not take time to ensure you have 10 or 11 good or great ST players on your team, your chances of winning a game against someone who does isn't very good, regardless of you opponents talent.

Essentially, until everyone does this, ST may be the most important and potent yardage producer on returns and yardage negater in coverage in the game.

[Autumn]

Definitely. I have a very humdrum team in the BFL, but the one thing we do is special teams. I'm getting over 20 yards more per kickoff return than my opponents. That makes a huge difference, especially if your offense is pretty bad, like mine is, but your defense is decent.