2013 Baseball HOF Voting

[lighthousekeeper]

This year is arguably the most intriguing baseball Hall of Fame ballot ever, with many big name first timers. Screw the BBWAA - let's declare the FOFC the new authority for HOF determination.

Same rules apply: Voters are instructed to cast votes for up to 10 candidates; any candidate who receives votes on at least 75% of the ballots will be honored with induction to the Hall

Voting to close on 12/18 2:20PM EST.

[lighthousekeeper]

From Baseball Reference (Baseball Reference HOF summary page )

	Batting Stats	Pitching Stats	
Rk	        	   YoB	%vote	HOFm	HOFs	Yrs	WAR	WAR7	JAWS	Jpos	G	AB	R	H	HR	RBI	SB	BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	W	L	ERA	ERA+	WHIP	G	GS	SV	IP	H	HR	BB	SO	Pos Summary
1	Jack Morris	14th	66.7%	122	39	18	39.3	30.8	35.1	57.8	568	1	4	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000	-100	254	186	3.90	105	1.296	549	527	0	3824.0	3567	389	1390	2478	*1/D
2	Jeff Bagwell	3rd	56.0%	150	59	15	76.7	46.7	61.7	51.5	2150	7797	1517	2314	449	1529	202	1401	.297	.408	.540	.948	149														*3/D9
3	Lee Smith	11th	50.6%	135	13	18	27.6	19.7	23.7	32.3	1023	64	2	3	1	2	0	3	.047	.090	.094	.183	-50	71	92	3.03	132	1.256	1022	6	478	1289.1	1133	89	486	1251	*1
4	Tim Raines	6th	48.7%	90	47	23	66.2	41.1	53.7	50.7	2502	8872	1571	2605	170	980	808	1330	.294	.385	.425	.810	123														*78D4/9
5	Alan Trammell	12th	36.8%	118	40	20	67.1	43.3	55.2	52.1	2293	8288	1231	2365	185	1003	236	850	.285	.352	.415	.767	110														*6D5/478
6	Edgar Martinez	4th	36.5%	132	50	18	64.4	41.8	53.1	53.4	2055	7213	1219	2247	309	1261	49	1283	.312	.418	.515	.933	147														*D*5/3
7	Fred McGriff	4th	23.9%	100	48	19	48.2	33.2	40.7	51.5	2460	8757	1349	2490	493	1550	72	1305	.284	.377	.509	.886	134														*3D
8	Larry Walker	3rd	22.9%	148	58	17	69.7	43.1	56.4	55.4	1988	6907	1355	2160	383	1311	230	913	.313	.400	.565	.965	141														*9387/D45
9	Mark McGwire	7th	19.5%	170	42	16	58.7	40.1	49.4	51.5	1874	6187	1167	1626	583	1414	12	1317	.263	.394	.588	.982	163														*3D/597
10	Don Mattingly	13th	17.8%	134	34	14	39.8	34.4	37.1	51.5	1785	7003	1007	2153	222	1099	14	588	.307	.358	.471	.830	127														*3D97/548
11	Dale Murphy	15th	14.5%	116	34	18	42.6	39.0	40.8	54.8	2180	7960	1197	2111	398	1266	161	986	.265	.346	.469	.815	121														*8*9372
12	Rafael Palmeiro	3rd	12.6%	178	57	20	66.1	36.6	51.3	51.5	2831	10472	1663	3020	569	1835	97	1353	.288	.371	.515	.885	132														*3*D7/98
13	Bernie Williams	2nd	9.6%	134	48	16	45.9	35.7	40.8	54.8	2076	7869	1366	2336	287	1257	147	1069	.297	.381	.477	.858	125														*8D9/7
14	Barry Bonds	1st		340	76	22	158.1	71.1	114.6	50.7	2986	9847	2227	2935	762	1996	514	2558	.298	.444	.607	1.051	182														*78D/9
15	Roger Clemens	1st		332	73	24	133.9	64.0	99.0	57.8	709	179	5	31	0	12	0	13	.173	.236	.207	.443	17	354	184	3.12	143	1.173	709	707	0	4916.2	4185	363	1580	4672	*1
16	Mike Piazza	1st		207	62	16	56.1	40.7	48.4	41.0	1912	6911	1048	2127	427	1335	17	759	.308	.377	.545	.922	143														*2D3
17	Curt Schilling	1st		171	46	20	76.1	46.7	61.4	57.8	571	773	39	117	0	29	1	25	.151	.178	.171	.348	-9	216	146	3.46	127	1.137	569	436	22	3261.0	2998	347	711	3116	*1
18	Kenny Lofton	1st		91	42	17	64.9	42.0	53.5	54.8	2103	8120	1528	2428	130	781	622	945	.299	.372	.423	.794	107														*87/D9
19	Craig Biggio	1st		169	57	20	62.1	40.6	51.3	54.4	2850	10876	1844	3060	291	1175	414	1160	.281	.363	.433	.796	112														*4*287/D9
20	Sammy Sosa	1st		202	52	18	54.8	42.2	48.5	55.4	2354	8813	1475	2408	609	1667	234	929	.273	.344	.534	.878	128														*98D/7
21	David Wells	1st		88	40	21	49.2	29.0	39.1	57.8	660	178	8	23	0	5	0	3	.129	.148	.140	.289	-22	239	157	4.13	108	1.266	660	489	13	3439.0	3635	407	719	2201	*1
22	Steve Finley	1st		72	36	19	40.4	30.4	35.4	54.8	2583	9397	1443	2548	304	1167	320	844	.271	.332	.442	.775	104	0	0	0.00		1.000	1	0	0	1.0	0	0	1	0	*897/D1
23	Julio Franco	1st		58	42	23	39.7	29.1	34.4	54.4	2527	8677	1285	2586	173	1194	281	917	.298	.365	.417	.782	111														*6*4*3*D/579
24	Reggie Sanders	1st		18	27	17	36.7	25.2	30.9	55.4	1777	6241	1037	1666	305	983	304	674	.267	.343	.487	.830	115														*9*78/D
25	Shawn Green	1st		62	33	15	31.4	29.5	30.4	55.4	1951	7082	1129	2003	328	1070	162	744	.283	.355	.494	.850	120														*9387D
26	Jeff Cirillo	1st		37	23	14	32.0	28.7	30.3	53.4	1617	5396	800	1598	112	727	63	563	.296	.366	.430	.796	102	0	0	0.00		2.000	1	0	0	1.0	0	0	2	1	*534D/671
27	Woody Williams	1st		17	14	15	28.1	20.2	24.2	57.8	443	540	52	105	4	43	1	17	.194	.222	.267	.489	29	132	116	4.19	103	1.321	424	330	0	2216.1	2217	309	711	1480	*1
28	Rondell White	1st		6	17	15	25.5	19.9	22.7	54.8	1474	5357	756	1519	198	768	94	360	.284	.336	.462	.799	108														*7*8D
29	Ryan Klesko	1st		24	26	16	24.6	20.4	22.5	51.5	1736	5611	874	1564	278	987	91	817	.279	.370	.500	.870	128														*7*39/D
30	Aaron Sele	1st		21	15	15	17.5	17.6	17.5	57.8	404	58	5	9	0	1	0	3	.155	.197	.190	.386	1	148	112	4.61	100	1.491	404	352	0	2153.0	2413	225	798	1407	*1
31	Roberto Hrnandz	1st		93	7	17	17.2	16.7	16.9	32.3	1010	2	0	1	0	0	0	0	.500	.500	.500	1.000	166	67	71	3.45	131	1.367	1010	3	326	1071.1	1002	96	462	945	*1
32	Royce Clayton	1st		24	23	17	16.4	15.5	15.9	52.1	2108	7379	935	1904	110	723	231	565	.258	.312	.367	.679	78														*6/5D
33	Jeff Conine	1st		22	23	17	16.2	15.2	15.7	50.7	2024	6957	870	1982	214	1071	54	671	.285	.347	.443	.789	107														*3*79D5
34	Mike Stanton	1st		66	7	19	13.3	14.3	13.8	32.3	1178	24	3	8	0	3	0	1	.333	.360	.375	.735	96	68	63	3.92	112	1.352	1178	1	84	1114.0	1086	93	420	895	*1
35	Sandy Alomar	1st		48	24	20	11.6	11.8	11.7	41.0	1377	4530	520	1236	112	588	25	212	.273	.309	.406	.716	86														*2/D3
36	Jose Mesa	1st		113	1	19	9.6	12.1	10.8	32.3	1023	2	1	0	0	0	0	1	.000	.333	.000	.333	-3	80	109	4.36	100	1.472	1022	95	321	1548.2	1629	151	651	1038	*1
37	Todd Walker	1st		10	22	12	8.3	8.9	8.6	54.4	1288	4554	647	1316	107	545	66	421	.289	.348	.435	.783	98														*453D/76

[bhlloy]

I voted for Bonds and Clemens and not for McGwire and Sosa. Reasoning behind that is that I think the former two guys were easily good enough before/without the steroids and the latter two, I'm not sure about.

Other than that - Raines, Biggio and Piazza get in. Two of arguably the best at their position all time and Raines is probably only second to Rickey Henderson as the premier speed guy of his era.

[Logan]

Same as above with the steroids guys. If you want to put something on their plaques re: PEDs, go ahead.

[Drake]

Inducted ever or inducted this year?

I wouldn't vote for Clemens (fucker) or Bonds this year, but think they probably both need to be in there sometime in the next decade or so.

[sterlingice]

By the time he gets to the Veterans Committee, will there be enough veterans who have hit game winning home runs off of Jose Mesa to vote him in for his generosity to the game?

SI

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

By the time he gets to the Veterans Committee, will there be enough veterans who have hit game winning home runs off of Jose Mesa to vote him in for his generosity to the game?

SI

I don't know, according to modern statistical metrics that summarize HOF induction likelihood, Mesa apparently has a better shot than Tim Raines and only a slightly worse shot than Jack Morris.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Drake

Inducted ever or inducted this year?

I wouldn't vote for Clemens (fucker) or Bonds this year, but think they probably both need to be in there sometime in the next decade or so.

Voting is based on induction for this year.

(Keep in mind the world might end, you might die, or you might get kicked out of the FOFC-BBWAA before next year's ballot, so make sure your vote counts while you have the chance.)

[RendeR]

Morris is the only one on the list I actually would vote for.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Morris is the only one on the list I actually would vote for.

It's the Hall of Fame, not the "Hall of Was Almost As Good As Dave Stieb".

[molson]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

the "Hall of Was Almost As Good As Dave Stieb".

I would absolutely visit that HOF. I can only imagine its somewhere in rural Ontario?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Morris is the only one on the list I actually would vote for.

Really? Jack Morris, who never one a Cy Young, ERA trophy, and only lead the league in stikeouts once in his career?

[tarcone]

Jack Morris is a shoe in for me.
I also voted, McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Raines, L. Smith, Murphy and Schilling.

I missed Biggio or I would have voted for him, as well.

[DanGarion]

Someone explain the Jack Morris love for me? I liked Jack Morris the player, but his stats really don't really do anything for me for HoF voting.

[Chubby]

Morris, Lee Smith, Raines, Trammell, Edgar

[molson]

I bet the real vote is going to end up a lot like this one - there's a bunch of viable candidates that are going to spread the vote pretty thin, since most people only vote for a handful of guys. It might be a class of 0 or 1.

[Chubby]

i laugh at those who think 'roiders will get voted in 1st ballot.

nelson laugh HA HA /nelson laugh

[Jas_lov]

Bagwell should be in, Biggio should be in, Raines should be in, Clemens, Piazza, Bonds all in. I don't know how you can justify keeping these guys out. Are they going to disqualify everyone from 90s-00s era? A guy like McGwire just has HRs so I can see keeping him out. Bonds and Clemens should easily be in. Bagwell and Piazza don't have much against them except speculation.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Someone explain the Jack Morris love for me? I liked Jack Morris the player, but his stats really don't really do anything for me for HoF voting.

He was widely regarded as the best pitcher of the 80s by many people? Im sure stats don't bear this out at all, but it explains why he might get into the HOF.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chubby

i laugh at those who think 'roiders will get voted in 1st ballot.

nelson laugh HA HA /nelson laugh

It said who should be elected to the HoF, not "who do you think" will get voted in.

[stevew]

I think that Dale Murphy and Lee Smith(among others) will get in via the veterans committee some day.

[RainMaker]

How does Bonds and Clemens get so many votes but Sosa doesn't?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

I don't know how you can justify keeping these guys out. Are they going to disqualify everyone from 90s-00s era?

It's like any other crime, you only get punished if you get caught, that's the risk. The fact that you can't catch every thief, murderer, etc, doesn't mean you shouldn't punish the ones you do catch.

So it's kind of a mess but it's one players brought about themselves. They fought against drug testing forever, they chose for the waters to be muddied, so they get to stand and be judged by sportswriters instead of drug tests. Their choice.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by stevew

He was widely regarded as the best pitcher of the 80s by many people? Im sure stats don't bear this out at all, but it explains why he might get into the HOF.

I would have taken Herhiser over Morris any day if we're talking 1980s. I'm amazed Hershiser never got more votes. I never expected him to get in but couldn't believe he was off the ballot after two tries.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Chubby

i laugh at those who think 'roiders will get voted in 1st ballot.

nelson laugh HA HA /nelson laugh

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

It said who should be elected to the HoF, not "who do you think" will get voted in.

Well done YD!

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How does Bonds and Clemens get so many votes but Sosa doesn't?

Bonds and Clemens were great players before people think they started in on the roids. Sosa didnt really become a great player until many feel he started in on the roids.

Of course its all speculation.

[molson]

Schilling will be an interesting vote - his playoff numbers are really good, and it wasn't just a couple of games, it was 19 starts, which included some really big, historically noteworthy games. And there's no steroid suspicion, which probably gives guys something of a bonus now. And 3,000+ Ks, reaching which has been a 100% lock until possibly Clemens and Schilling this year.

[Drake]

I voted for Larry Walker for no good reason other than that I really liked him.

[Drake]

Dola...

I'm going to start a Hall of People Drake Likes. It'll have Larry Walker, Nomar Garciaparra, Reggie Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Hoosier PG Michael Lewis, and Amy Adams in it. And Neal Stephenson. And maybe Quiksand.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Drake

Dola...

I'm going to start a Hall of People Drake Likes. It'll have Larry Walker, Nomar Garciaparra, Reggie Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Hoosier PG Michael Lewis, and Amy Adams in it. And Neal Stephenson. And maybe Quiksand.

[frnk55]

Todd Walker? Really, Todd Walker?
And of course he will get a vote by someone.

[General Mike]

Voted for Bagwell, Biggio, Trammell, Raines, Piazza, Bonds, Clemens, Murphy and Schilling.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How does Bonds and Clemens get so many votes but Sosa doesn't?

Because even statistically his HoF case is rather borderline.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by molson

Schilling will be an interesting vote - his playoff numbers are really good, and it wasn't just a couple of games, it was 19 starts, which included some really big, historically noteworthy games. And there's no steroid suspicion, which probably gives guys something of a bonus now. And 3,000+ Ks, reaching which has been a 100% lock until possibly Clemens and Schilling this year.

Markus told me that clutch doesn't exist and that's why OOTP doesn't have it and why star players are so shitty in the post-season. So I can't vote for Schilling since he doesn't exist.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by stevew

He was widely regarded as the best pitcher of the 80s by many people? Im sure stats don't bear this out at all, but it explains why he might get into the HOF.

That, plus apparently for some voters Game 7 of the '91 World Series was worth 100 career wins.

[Blackadar]

First, on the roids thing. If you don't want to risk voting anyone in who may have done roaids, then you shouldn't vote for ANYONE in this era because you simply have no idea who was doing what. You don't know, can't know and shouldn't presume. So be consistent - vote for 'em all or none. Take your pick, but don't be a pussy trying to convict one guy while excusing your favorite player. Ken Caminitti said more than half were doing it and there's no reason to doubt him. Canseco may be an ass, but pretty much everything out of his mouth concerning roids has been proven true and his number was higher. So give up the crusade or vote for none, there can be no logical middle ground.

My votes are broken down as follows:

The No-Brainers:
Bonds
Clemens
Piazza

These guys have to be first ballot, no matter how much you like or dislike them. An all-time top 5 hitter, an all-time top 5 pitcher and the all-time best hitting catcher.

The Closer Inspections:
Biggio - 62 WAR + 3,000 hits gets you in the door.
Bagwell - 77 WAR should be automatic, but how did this guy only play in 4 All-Star games? Because he wasn't thought of as highly as his peers. But his peak was amazing and he passes the sniff test for me.
Schilling - Win totals put aside, this guy was a dominant pitcher of his era. A workhorse who has the best K/BB ratio of all time, he was no doubt a top starter. If he's iffy, then consider his postseason stats and he gets the nod.


Now that was my ballot for this year. Guys I'd entertain in the future - The Wait Until Next Years

Tim Raines - A great leadoff hitter with a 66 WAR. Perhaps the 2nd best base stealer in the modern era. Borderline, but he probably get my vote (but not in this class)...

Kenny Lofton - ...unlike Lofton, who probably doesn't.

Sosa - It's not the 'roids. It's the numbers. Good, but gaudy HR totals aren't all that impressive from that era (whether it be juiced players or balls or ballparks or all 3). He was a one-trick pony. It was a helluva trick, but one I'd like to contemplate a bit more on and see how his peers shake out. He probably gets a vote from me in the future...

McGwire - ...unlike Big Mac, whose injuries derailed him too much.

Larry Walker - I loved watching this guy play and he put up some great statistics. But a lot of that was due to the absurdity of Coors Field. His Away OPS is 200 points lower than his home one. He's a .278 hitter on the road and .348 at home. Probably not.


And who the fuck voted for Jeff Cirillo, Sandy (not Roberto) Alomar and Jose Mesa?

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

And who the fuck voted for Jeff Cirillo, Sandy (not Roberto) Alomar and Jose Mesa?

I don't actually believe Cirillo should get in. But I figured for the purposes of such a serious poll with far reaching implications, I'd throw one of my favorite Brewers of the 90's (slim pickings there) a bone.

[lighthousekeeper]

it's a wonder anyone ever gets elected to the HOF. 75% is a pretty tough threshold to meet. it will be interesting to watch this year if the pro-roiders and anti-roiders (plus the random cirillo fanboys) cancel each other out and 0 get selected.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Really? Jack Morris, who never one a Cy Young, ERA trophy, and only lead the league in stikeouts once in his career?

Morris is the romantic view of what a pitcher should be. He took the ball every fourth or fifth day for about 15 years, threw a lot of complete games, has the no-hitter and rings, was clutch for a couple of World Series champions and has a couple of marquee wins -- 1991 World Series and throwing a national televised no-hitter. And even though he won a championship with Detroit, for most of his career in D-town they were a pretty crummy team.

I get younger fans who don't get the Morris mystique because you had to watch Morris to understand his value.

That said, I'm surprised more stat heads don't jump on Morris because he illustrates the importance of a couple of key metrics. If Morris left the game after six innings like he was Pedro Martinez rather than throwing a 120 pitches every night, his stats would look a lot better.

[kcchief19]

We're a tough group. I'll bet almost to a tee that everyone will get a higher percentage from the real voters than us, except for perhaps some of the PED cases. I can't see Bonds and Clemens getting even 2/3 of the vote.

Three guys who should be in and it's a shame two of them are not: Biggio, Lee Smith and Raines. No one with more hits than Biggio, more saves that Smith or more stolen bases than Raines eligible for the Hall of Fame is not in. Again, based on today's metrics, Raines is arguably the greatest base stealer of all time. Not only does he have the fifth most steals, he also was successful about 85% of the time, which is absolutely ridiculous.

My cutoff guy is Fred McGriff. I really want to vote McGriff because I always liked him as a player and he was so freaking reliable. But he spent too much of his career post-'95, which means you have to assign a "juiced ball" era discount. I don't think McGriff juiced, but all offense post-strike is suspect to a certain percentage. If McGriff had just a few more of everything, it would be easy.

You could argue that the 1994 shutdown cost McGriff a spot in the Hall of Fame. 500 home runs (discounting PED users) is a guaranteed Hall slot. McGriff had 34 home runs and was arguable in his peak season. Give him those 48 games back, and I wonder if we feel differently about the Crime Dog.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Sosa - It's not the 'roids. It's the numbers. Good, but gaudy HR totals aren't all that impressive from that era (whether it be juiced players or balls or ballparks or all 3). He was a one-trick pony. It was a helluva trick, but one I'd like to contemplate a bit more on and see how his peers shake out. He probably gets a vote from me in the future...

The numbers aren't anywhere close to what I think many would assume.

Sosa had an amazing peak, but the roughly 10 years he played prior to that peak he compiled a not-so-impressive .257/.308/.469. The peak was hall of fame worthy. The other two thirds of his career wasn't even close. He's a borderline candidate that would fall on the outside of the HoF for me and it has absolutely nothing to do with steroids.

[Atocep]

Edgar Martinez should be in the Hall. Bagwell, Piazza, Biggio, Raines, and Schilling would be get yes votes from me. Clemens, Bonds, and McGwire obviously should get in on stats, but with the PED questions I can see both sides of the argument and generally don't care strongly one way or the other if they get in or not.

[StLee]

It requires a 75% vote to get in, right? It looks like no one is going to make it in 2012 if FOFC is anywhere near the real results.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

it's a wonder anyone ever gets elected to the HOF. 75% is a pretty tough threshold to meet. it will be interesting to watch this year if the pro-roiders and anti-roiders (plus the random cirillo fanboys) cancel each other out and 0 get selected.

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Morris is the romantic view of what a pitcher should be. He took the ball every fourth or fifth day for about 15 years, threw a lot of complete games, has the no-hitter and rings, was clutch for a couple of World Series champions and has a couple of marquee wins -- 1991 World Series and throwing a national televised no-hitter. And even though he won a championship with Detroit, for most of his career in D-town they were a pretty crummy team.

I get younger fans who don't get the Morris mystique because you had to watch Morris to understand his value.

That said, I'm surprised more stat heads don't jump on Morris because he illustrates the importance of a couple of key metrics. If Morris left the game after six innings like he was Pedro Martinez rather than throwing a 120 pitches every night, his stats would look a lot better.

His stats say he would actually look worse if he left after 6 innings.

Jack Morris Career Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

His stats say he would actually look worse if he left after 6 innings.

Jack Morris Career Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

My point (which was unclear) is that he pitched differently than current era pitchers. He had to assume every night he was pitching nine innings and throwing 120 pitches. Pedro Martinez came out throwing gas for 6 innings, Morris had to pace himself. Morris' numbers look worse compared to current era pitchers largely due to the way he was handled. But it was a different era. He was arguable one of the 3 pitchers of his era.

Frankly, his splits make him even more HOF worthy. The guy was his best in late innings.

And this is coming from a guy who largely hated Morris during his career.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by StLee

It requires a 75% vote to get in, right? It looks like no one is going to make it in 2012 if FOFC is anywhere near the real results.

In fairness, I don't think the BBWAA will have people like Samifan who only trout-vote for Jose Mesa, or people who only homer-vote for Jeff Cirillo.

...but who knows, that probably does happen in the BBWAA vote.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

In fairness, I don't think the BBWAA will have people like Samifan who only trout-vote for Jose Mesa, or people who only homer-vote for Jeff Cirillo.

No, they have people like Mariotti who can't be bothered to put that much thought into it.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

His stats say he would actually look worse if he left after 6 innings.

Jack Morris Career Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

Maybe he meant 3 innings...

[DanGarion]

Here are the accumalative pitching stats for years 1980-1989 in the MLB. Sorted by WAR.

I think my biggest issue with Morris' stats is that accumulative they are really good if not great, but if you just look at year to year they aren't very impressive, there are only three above 4. His best WAR seasons only rank as the 91st and 92nd best in the 10 year stretch (1987, 1986, both 4.8 WAR).

[stevew]

If it's truly the Hall of "Fame", someone like Jose Mesa will be remembered way longer than a vanilla guy like Biggio.