A cheap, (semi)gaming desktop?

[ISiddiqui]

Soo... I took some advantage of the Steam sale (not with the most graphically or processor intensive games), though I realize my laptop just isn't going to like that. Even with Civ V, it runs well enough, but gets pretty hot while doing so. I am not inclined to make my own desktop at this point (I'll be fine to upgrade one, but not make one). Are there any fairly cheap, good makers of desktops (at least an i5, 6GB RAM, a decent video card)?

[JPhillips]

There are a lot of options if you want the i5 and 6GB but are willing to add the video card separately.

When I did a similar purchase a couple of years ago I just waited for a good sale on the computer and then the video card.

[Coffee Warlord]

What's 'cheap' to you?

[Radii]

You can very easily get 30% more PC (or more) for the same price if you build your own. Is that an option?

I built a pretty powerful machine for $1000 that would have cost at least $1500 retail, for example.

I assume you're looking cheaper than that, but I think its a pretty similar idea.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Radii

You can very easily get 30% more PC (or more) for the same price if you build your own. Is that an option?

I built a pretty powerful machine for $1000 that would have cost at least $1500 retail, for example.

I assume you're looking cheaper than that, but I think its a pretty similar idea.

I disagree with this assertion. You will save money, but generally nowhere near 30% unless you're just shopping from HP, Dell or some retail shop. Most times the markup to build a PC is often under $100.

The pros of building it: you know what you're getting and can choose all the components, you save a little money and don't have to spend money on "extraneous" components that you may already own (like a keyboard, mouse or extra hard drive to increase storage).

The cons of building it: time, frustration, restocking fees and shipping fees. Obviously, it will take time to build it yourself. An hour to get the components in, another couple of hours to install the OS, installing drivers, etc. If something goes wrong, you're on your own. If you buy things that aren't compatible, enjoy paying the restocking fees back to NewEgg. Also, sometimes you will incur shipping fees and delays on waiting on that one component.

Personally, it's no longer worth the time for me to build one. My last PC was purchased on Amazon for about $600 and is still going strong over two years later. I think it was made by Cyberpower. That's the way I'll buy my next machine too - the prices on Amazon are dirt cheap and I've got Amazon as the middleman in case there's something wrong with it.

So that's my advice for Isiddiqui - shop on Amazon, look for the components that you want and buy those while ignoring the name on the box.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm still a huge fan of Digital Storm's Vanquish (aka pre-built) line. The markup is negligible (like a couple bucks over the NewEgg price per component), and they build a tidy machine.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Radii

You can very easily get 30% more PC (or more) for the same price if you build your own. Is that an option?

I built a pretty powerful machine for $1000 that would have cost at least $1500 retail, for example.

I assume you're looking cheaper than that, but I think its a pretty similar idea.

We are about due for a new desktop and my son has been showing interest in wanting to build one. Something about it always scares me off though. Usually easier for us to just throw money at Dell (we never really get anything suped up, just some mid-range Inspiron deal).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

What's 'cheap' to you?

$500-$800

Of course, closer to $500 would be better, but I don't think that's particularly an option... though I guess $500 for a computer and then a few hundred for a graphics card could work... which is actually great advice by JPhillips.

[ISiddiqui]

Example, I saw this one at Amazon:

Amazon.com : CybertronPC Borg-Q GM4213A Desktop PC (Blue) : Desktop Computers : Computers & Accessories

It's got an AMD instead of Intel. Not been following those wars these days...

Here are those specs:

3.80 GHz AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core Processor (Processor Max Turbo Speed: 3.90GHz)
8 GB Installed Memory
1 TB Serial ATA hard drive (7200 RPM, 6 GB/s)
Dual-layer DVD±RW drive
GeForce GT610 Graphics
7.1 Channel HD Audio
450 watt power supply
Keyboard and Optical Wheel Mouse Included
Windows 8.1 64-bit

Decent, but not great upgradability from the pictures.

The Red and Green versions cost $569.99

Would that be similar to something worth having, or would it be worth getting an i5 instead?

[gstelmack]

TR's May 2014 System Guide - The Tech Report - Page 1

[ISiddiqui]

Thanks! So from that link it appears hold out for at least an i3!

[PilotMan]

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I disagree with this assertion. You will save money, but generally nowhere near 30% unless you're just shopping from HP, Dell or some retail shop.

I looked a *lot* when I built mine and I talked to a couple good friends of mine who do this kind of thing for a living and I came away with a very different view on this. I could not find anything anywhere, with others who know more than me helping me search, for less than 40%-50% more than what I built. Just one instance though, maybe I caught a sale on a part at the right time, or maybe a $500 machine is different, but I didn't want to build it myself initially and it took an overwhelming cost difference to get me to do it. Now I wonder why I hesitated at all.

shipping fees

Maybe I was lucky, but I got everything for $0 shipping. All but one part came from Amazon via my existing amazon prime subscription. pcpartpicker makes this trivial.

Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB DirectCU II Video Card (GTX780TI-DC2OC-3GD5) - PCPartPicker

For a random expensive graphics card, prices checked across all vendors in seconds, including accounting for shipping.

If you buy things that aren't compatible

I "cheated" here, I used reddit's "buildapc" sub (reddit.com/r/buildapc) and searched through builds in my price range that had already received good discussion and had been confirmed to be solid with all compatible parts, and just copied one.


For everything else, of course you're right in that it comes down the value you put on the time and any risk that you feel is left over.

[Radii]

dola, note that I'm not trying to push ISiddiqui into that if he isn't comfortable with the idea or time investment, but thought it was worth bringing up

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

That's the way I'll buy my next machine too - the prices on Amazon are dirt cheap and I've got Amazon as the middleman in case there's something wrong with it.

+1

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

TR's May 2014 System Guide - The Tech Report - Page 1

Geez, sweet spot on there is still like $1400? It would be just as tempting for me to get something like this: XPS 8700 Performance Desktop | Dell

Of course I haven't gone down the list of components to compare, but $750 vs $1400? Is the Dell *that* substandard, and if so where? (I am sure there are things that I am missing.)

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, the 8700 doesn't look that horrible... though lots of bloatware, I'm sure. But one can upgrade some of the stuff like old graphics cards, etc.

The Digital Storm's Vanquish looks pretty nice itself.

[Vince, Pt. II]

It adds extra cost (and most likely won't fit in your budget because of that), but I went to an SSD with my last rig, and I will literally never game without one again. Game changing, performance wise. Load times no longer exist. It's amazing. I equate it to Internet surfing with high speed Internet after using dial-up.

[JPhillips]

I check techbargains a lot when I'm shopping for computers or electronics.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Geez, sweet spot on there is still like $1400? It would be just as tempting for me to get something like this: XPS 8700 Performance Desktop | Dell

Of course I haven't gone down the list of components to compare, but $750 vs $1400? Is the Dell *that* substandard, and if so where? (I am sure there are things that I am missing.)

Yeah, I got an xps last October on one of the Dell sales with and i7, 8 gig ram, and win7 for $685. I don't play many graphics intense games but what I have loaded has looked very good. Of course handles OOTP and FM without issue.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeah, the 8700 doesn't look that horrible... though lots of bloatware, I'm sure. But one can upgrade some of the stuff like old graphics cards, etc.

The Digital Storm's Vanquish looks pretty nice itself.

Drives me ape-shit that they insist on putting McAfee on there, and don't even give you an option (at least not in that interface) to remove it from the order. I'll give Digital Storm a browse.

Originally Posted by Sweed

Yeah, I got an xps last October on one of the Dell sales with and i7, 8 gig ram, and win7 for $685. I don't play many graphics intense games but what I have loaded has looked very good. Of course handles OOTP and FM without issue.

Yeah - I don't do much that is all that involved. I'd like Civ to be a little faster, and IF City of Heroes comes back (gigantic IF) I would be able to handle their "ultra mode" better. My son plays some games that are a little more demanding, but so far his laptop (also Dell) has handled it ok.

[ISiddiqui]

Interesting...

Amazon.com : Acer Predator AG3-605-UR1C Gaming Desktop : Computers & Accessories

An Acer Predator on Amazon (though comes out July 14) - though likely the parts they don't list are cheap crap:
Intel Core i5-4440 Processor 3.1 GHz(6 MB cache)
8 GB DDR3 RAM
1 TB 7200 rpm Hard Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GTX745 Graphics with 4GB of Discrete Video Memory
Windows 8.1

For $750 (I dunno about the power supply, but I read some sites say it was close to 500? If so, this is in the lead, I think)

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Yeah, I got an xps last October on one of the Dell sales with and i7, 8 gig ram, and win7 for $685. I don't play many graphics intense games but what I have loaded has looked very good. Of course handles OOTP and FM without issue.

Pretty much the same for me with a hybrid HD and I then paid like $130 and purchased a NVIDIA Geforce GTX 650 Ti graphics card.

I can run pretty much anything at max settings.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

NVIDIA GeForce GTX745 Graphics with 4GB of Discrete Video Memory

Um, no.

[ISiddiqui]

Is that any worse than the NVIDIA GeForce GT 720 1GB DDR3 that is with the Dell 8700?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Is that any worse than the NVIDIA GeForce GT 720 1GB DDR3 that is with the Dell 8700?

No, probably better, but neither one is what I'd consider a "gaming" card.

"Gaming" card is probably going to be an NVidia x60 (660 will work, it's what's in my machine right now, 760 better) or higher. I don't keep up with AMD cards to make a recommendation there.

[ISiddiqui]

But I'm thinking either the 720 or the 745 would handle things like Civ V just fine. I mean right now I use Intel Integrated Mobile Graphics 4000 (or whatever its called ).

[JAG]

Maybe a naive question, but how important is it to get top-of-the-line components vs. those used by mainstream stores for quality, reliability, and so on? My experiences with the last two computers I bought (Dell, lasted 7 years, needed a hard drive replaced under warranty and no other problems, then HP, 7 years and counting with no problems) were positive but I don't how typical that is.

[weegeebored]

I don't have any evidence to back this up but I think that there's a higher rate of failure for Dell/HP parts than those manufacturers that use components of higher quality. Having said that, I don't think the failure rate differences are statistically significant under normal usage.

The main difference in a higher quality part (a set of them, anyway) is better performance, at least when benchmarked. The average user probably won't notice the difference in their day-to-day use. This is still the main reason that I still build my own. That and the ability to choose specific components based on price, performance, features, etc.

[gstelmack]

The big problem you MAY run into with Dell/HP/etc is custom parts. For the most part, they generally use good components, just cheaper versions, suc as the 720 and 745 video cards mentioned above - I hadn't even HEARD of those until this thread, Nvidia was 760/770/780, and then they introduced the 750 as their low-end entry level, and suddenly manufacturers are shipping further stripped down versions. The 720 and 745 will probably last as long as the others, they'll just be slower.

But with Dell, for the longest time, you had custom power supplies, for example. I have a pretty old Dell dual core, and it still runs great, but I had the power supply go (not uncommon, it's one of the more failure prone parts in any PC), and it was fun tracking down a reasonable replacement, since was not a standard power supply.

This also means it's far more difficult to upgrade. It's easy for me to stick RAM in my custom PC, for example, or swap out the CPU/RAM/Motherboard and keep everything else (case, power supply, video card, other sundries) when I need to move up. With Dell/HP, you're buying a whole new system typically, or spending much more for the upgraded part than you would otherwise.

In my personal upgrade history, I've gone back-and-forth - sometimes buying the prebuilt ends up being the right option, sometimes building my own is. Generally I prefer to know everything that's in there and be able to swap individual parts if something goes wrong or needs an upgrade, but sometimes just buying off the shelf ends up about the same price or cheaper, I get the warranty, and I know it's going to stay as-is for several years. Usually my personal PC is home built, wife or kids MAY be pre-bought depending on their needs.

[ISiddiqui]

What about this:

HP ENVY Intel Core i5 3.0GHz Desktop

It's Factory Reconditioned HP, and it needs an update to the PS (and I've heard that HP Envy PS's aren't custom) and graphics card, but it's $500 for:

Processor: Intel Core i5-4430 3.0 GHz (Turbo up to 3.2 GHz)
6MB Shared Cache
Processor Core: Quad-Core
Memory: 8GB DDR3
Max Memory: 16GB
Memory Slots: 2
Graphics: Intel HD Graphics 4600
Hard Drive: 2TB SATA (7200rpm)
Optical Drive: SuperMulti DVD Burner
Audio Codec: Integrated IDT 92HD65C
Sound: 5.1 channel
Network: 10/100/1000 BASE-T
Wireless: 802.11a/b/g/n/ac (2x2)
Bluetooth: Yes, 4.0
Power Supply: 300W

Has 4 USB 3.0 spots, a 15-in-1 memory card reader, 6 USB 2.0 spots

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

What about this:

HP ENVY Intel Core i5 3.0GHz Desktop

It's Factory Reconditioned HP, and it needs an update to the PS (and I've heard that HP Envy PS's aren't custom) and graphics card, but it's $500 for:

Processor: Intel Core i5-4430 3.0 GHz (Turbo up to 3.2 GHz)
6MB Shared Cache
Processor Core: Quad-Core
Memory: 8GB DDR3
Max Memory: 16GB
Memory Slots: 2
Graphics: Intel HD Graphics 4600
Hard Drive: 2TB SATA (7200rpm)
Optical Drive: SuperMulti DVD Burner
Audio Codec: Integrated IDT 92HD65C
Sound: 5.1 channel
Network: 10/100/1000 BASE-T
Wireless: 802.11a/b/g/n/ac (2x2)
Bluetooth: Yes, 4.0
Power Supply: 300W

Has 4 USB 3.0 spots, a 15-in-1 memory card reader, 6 USB 2.0 spots

Recently bought this one and returned it after 10 days. They've been having issues with the touch pad and mine was no different. Was a really frustrating experience.

[sterlingice]

The touch pad on a desktop?

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah... that was a strange comment.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

The touch pad on a desktop?

SI

My bad. They have a laptop with nearly identical specs that I purchased. Didn't catch the desktop part.