2010 Census

[WSR]

I just received my Census and don't know if I want to answer all the questions.

They want to know my phone number, the names of everyone living here, birth dates, and race (with a special question asking me if they are of Hispanic,Latino, or Spanish origin?). WTF? I may be just paranoid, but I'm not comfortable giving out all this information.

If they want to know how many people, race, age (not birth date), I'm cool with that. But phone numbers and birth dates seems a bit much.

Thoughts?

[Lathum]

Do you really think they couldn't find that out anyway in about .0000003 seconds?

[panerd]

This is from a lazy panerd perspective and not a Libertarian perspective. Don't send it in. (or better yet send it in with only the questions you want to answer) What are they going to do? Put you in jail? Fine you? They know all of this information already anyways.

[claphamsa]

lie like a dog

[Danny]

Tell them you are an american inuit

[WSR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Do you really think they couldn't find that out anyway in about .0000003 seconds?

That's my point: why should I tell them what they already probably know?

[miked]

I hear about 500 commercials a day reminding Atlantans to fill out their census forms so we can get money.

[sterlingice]

Really? Is this what it's come to? "Civil disobedience" because 1)I'm too lazy or 2) the guv'ment is out to get me with the census form (where you are filling out information that is readily attainable at a local level from local government)

Dude, it's the census. They've been doing this for 200-odd years now, right?

Just fill out the damn form and send it back. It's like 2 minutes and it's postage paid. Jeez.

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by WSR

That's my point: why should I tell them what they already probably know?

Because before they ask the question in the census there are no practical reasons for them to have that information. (Even though we all know that they do have it and a lot more) Now they can gerrymander their districts even more and when we complain they can say the information was public knowledge not secretly taken by the government.

[Lathum]

I'm with SI. I also see the commercials but the census serves a purpose. Not only does it determine money for schools, public works, etc... IIRC it also determines your government representation.

[cartman]

Here's the penalties possible for either refusing to answer Census questions or giving intentionally wrong answers:

According to United States Code, Title 13 (Census), Chapter 7 (Offenses and Penalties), SubChapter II, if you're over 18 and refuse to answer all or part of the Census, you can be fined up to $100. If you give false answers, you're subject to a fine of up to $500. If you offer suggestions or information with the "intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population," you are subject to a fine of up to $1,000, up to a year in prison, or both. Here's the official verbiage:

221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

* (a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

* (b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

* (c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

Sec. 222. Giving suggestions or information with intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population

Whoever, either directly or indirectly, offers or renders to any officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof engaged in making an enumeration of population under subchapter II, IV, or V of chapter 5 of this title, any suggestion, advice, information or assistance of any kind, with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

Because before they ask the question in the census there are no practical reasons for them to have that information. (Even though we all know that they do have it and a lot more) Now they can gerrymander their districts even more and when we complain they can say the information was public knowledge not secretly taken by the government.

I don't involve myself in political threads here so I I'll likely back out shortly, but how is it not practical to have that information?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Really? Is this what it's come to? "Civil disobedience" because 1)I'm too lazy or 2) the guv'ment is out to get me with the census form (where you are filling out information that is readily attainable at a local level from local government)

Dude, it's the census. They've been doing this for 200-odd years now, right?

Just fill out the damn form and send it back. It's like 2 minutes and it's postage paid. Jeez.

SI

They made it more complicated this year. This is one of their jobs projects. They know that they can employ a bunch of people temporarily to get the job numbers down as long as they make the questionnaire somewhat offensive or hard to do.

Seriously, how much money are they wasting acting like they are finding out information that they already know? Some computer database has an image of every single house in America with all of this information and then some.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by panerd

This is from a lazy panerd perspective and not a Libertarian perspective. Don't send it in. (or better yet send it in with only the questions you want to answer) What are they going to do? Put you in jail? Fine you? They know all of this information already anyways.

I don't know about federal. But you do this with the state and they call you/knock on your door a half dozen times daily for 4 months.

Fuckers.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't involve myself in political threads here so I I'll likely back out shortly, but how is it not practical to have that information?

I'm not really anti-Obama as much as I see that this is a ruse (pretty sure I spelled that wrong) and a huge waste of money. They know all of this information. Why send the questionnaires out in the first place?

I am not opposed politically, I am opposed because it is a colossal waste of money.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm not really anti-Obama as much as I see that this is a ruse (pretty sure I spelled that wrong) and a huge waste of money. They know all of this information. Why send the questionnaires out in the first place?

I am not opposed politically, I am opposed because it is a colossal waste of money.

Then you need to petition for a constitutional amendment, because it specifically states that a Census is conducted every 10 years.

[WSR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't involve myself in political threads here so I I'll likely back out shortly, but how is it not practical to have that information?

Didn't realize this would turn into a political thread. I just don't know if I want to summarize this information for them when they should have it all already.

For example: Rather than ask our date of birth, wouldn't it suffice for me to tell them that I am between 40 - 45 years old?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

Then you need to petition for a constitutional amendment, because it specifically states that a Census is conducted every 10 years.

Yeah but I realize that it is going to happen and something like that is just a waste of my time. There are bigger issues. I like to "troll" the political threads around here just because I like to try and convince people there is at least a 3rd and 4th way of doing things and maybe we should look into it but I don't really oppose this politically at all. (Meaning I would have opposed this if a Republican was in office) I just think it is a huge waste of money.

And since some might think that my last post is somehow political I am going to bow out of the thread and try and let it get back on track. I apologize for threadjacking.

[sterlingice]

And, according to this handy-dandy page I googled:
The Questions on the Form - 2010 Census

It looks like more than half the questions have been around since 1900 (7/10). They now ask for a phone number to clarify any answers they don't understand, they have asked about being Hispanic since 1970 (according to the site), and "does person x live somewhere else occasionally"?

SI

[KWhit]

Just answer the questions for fuck sake.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by WSR

Didn't realize this would turn into a political thread. I just don't know if I want to summarize this information for them when they should have it all already.

For example: Rather than ask our date of birth, wouldn't it suffice for me to tell them that I am between 40 - 45 years old?

My bad, I assumed when you asked if you are being paranoid and were uncomfortable answering that you were taking a conspiracy angle.

[Drake]

I've been lying on mandatory internet surveys for my own personal amusement for close to ten years now, don't see any reason to stop now.

[WSR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

My bad, I assumed when you asked if you are being paranoid and were uncomfortable answering that you were taking a conspiracy angle.

No conspiracy angle at all. Honestly.

[Dodgerchick]

We haven't gotten ours but one thing I have an issue with is choosing race. Our kids are half black, half mexican and I've yet to see a form that has a biracial choice.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by cartman

Then you need to petition for a constitutional amendment, because it specifically states that a Census is conducted every 10 years.

Fine, but let's not waste money on advertising and only snail mail options. It's not a surprise, but it's government inefficiency at it's best.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

We haven't gotten ours but one thing I have an issue with is choosing race. Our kids are half black, half mexican and I've yet to see a form that has a biracial choice.

I'm pretty sure you're all allowed to check more than one box and that it's been the case since the 2000 Census.

[Swaggs]

Phone number is for follow up purposes.

I feel bad for the folks working the census this year w/ all of the drummed up anti-government paranoia going on.

[Dodgerchick]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm pretty sure you're all allowed to check more than one box and that it's been the case since the 2000 Census.

Yeah, I'm sure I'm able to; that's what I've been doing with the kid's forms from school. After the kiddos take the state test, results come back and I see scores based on race - Hispanics scored __%, African American __%, Asian __ %, American Indian __ %, etc. Great info, so where does my kid fall under?

[sterlingice]

As a friend of mine quipped over AIM: "Yeah, imagine my disappointment when I filled mine out today and there wasn't ONE question about my bank account, sexual orientation or financial status."

Panerd- I don't know what to say. I'll try to look at it not as a given but with regards to some of your points.

In some form of fashion, the census has to be done for the reasons stated- voting, financing, etc. You're right, tho, it could probably be done cheaper and more efficiently. We are definitely stuck in a mental rut of "that's how it's always been done and we're the best so don't change things" towards a great many things in this country and use it as an excuse to resist change.

I wouldn't mind if there was the Census Modernization Act of 2020, for instance, where you could see your information online and have a chance to accept or correct the information in the national database. That would under represent the poor as all but the homeless have an address which presumably receives mail versus internet access penetration here of about 75%.

But it would save a lot of money and you could spend some of that on the Library Modernization Act of 2020 which would kick some of the money saved towards libraries and their technology budget as well as lengthen their hours for a month to allow access to the census online. It would save money but still save the dual purpose of trying to correct the under representation problem while giving community libraries a financial shot in the arm, developing some local infrastructure.

That said, I think it's easy to poke fun from the cheap seats and just say "see, there goes the government, wasting money again." Let's assume they don't already have this database as, even if they have the information, they probably don't have it all in one place. Who knows, maybe the FBI or NSA has a file on all of us, but it's not like they're going to share that with the innocuous census bureau. Maybe you could get some from social security but it's going to cost manhours and time to convert it all and that's assuming they have all the info, which they probably don't.

So, I gotta turn this back on you (and other who are asking): how are you going to collect this information. I've got my plan above for 2020, best as I can come up with on the back of a napkin. What do you have? No, there isn't a magic database out there with this info. Let's just stop with that now. Could I Google everyone? Well, sort of. But they don't know who "everyone" is. It's not like you could just go to Super Pages and count up everyone in every city.

SI

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Yeah, I'm sure I'm able to; that's what I've been doing with the kid's forms from school. After the kiddos take the state test, results come back and I see scores based on race - Hispanics scored __%, African American __%, Asian __ %, American Indian __ %, etc. Great info, so where does my kid fall under?

Yes.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

As a friend of mine quipped over AIM: "Yeah, imagine my disappointment when I filled mine out today and there wasn't ONE question about my bank account, sexual orientation or financial status."

Panerd- I don't know what to say. I'll try to look at it not as a given but with regards to some of your points.

In some form of fashion, the census has to be done for the reasons stated- voting, financing, etc. You're right, tho, it could probably be done cheaper and more efficiently. We are definitely stuck in a mental rut of "that's how it's always been done and we're the best so don't change things" towards a great many things in this country and use it as an excuse to resist change.

I wouldn't mind if there was the Census Modernization Act of 2020, for instance, where you could see your information online and have a chance to accept or correct the information in the national database. That would under represent the poor as all but the homeless have an address which presumably receives mail versus internet access penetration here of about 75%.

But it would save a lot of money and you could spend some of that on the Library Modernization Act of 2020 which would kick some of the money saved towards libraries and their technology budget as well as lengthen their hours for a month to allow access to the census online. It would save money but still save the dual purpose of trying to correct the under representation problem while giving community libraries a financial shot in the arm, developing some local infrastructure.

That said, I think it's easy to poke fun from the cheap seats and just say "see, there goes the government, wasting money again." Let's assume they don't already have this database as, even if they have the information, they probably don't have it all in one place. Who knows, maybe the FBI or NSA has a file on all of us, but it's not like they're going to share that with the innocuous census bureau. Maybe you could get some from social security but it's going to cost manhours and time to convert it all and that's assuming they have all the info, which they probably don't.

So, I gotta turn this back on you (and other who are asking): how are you going to collect this information. I've got my plan above for 2020, best as I can come up with on the back of a napkin. What do you have? No, there isn't a magic database out there with this info. Let's just stop with that now. Could I Google everyone? Well, sort of. But they don't know who "everyone" is. It's not like you could just go to Super Pages and count up everyone in every city.

SI

Right now I can type my phone number into google and get taken to some site that tells me stuff about my previous residences and phone numbers that even I don't remember. And that is the free site. You don't think the government knows as much as the pay site? You don't think they know more? So I have to send back a form that tells them stuff that I can already find on the internet by googling "panerd xxx-xxx-xxxx"


I would agree with you on your conclusions except it changes because of your assumption that the government doesn't already know this. Of course they do. That isn't a conspiracy theory nowadays is it?

[molson]

I'm pretty libertarian but I always get annoyed about the census backlash (and also people that complain about jury duty)

It's just a goddam Census.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, but the government doesn't know that there is a panerd out that and that he's a US citizen. And that his name isn't "John Smith" or that each "John Smith" on Super Pages or Google is unique, etc.

SI

[Greyroofoo]

I really hope you all don't fill our your census.

MORE GOVERNMENT FOR ME!

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeah, but the government doesn't know that there is a panerd out that and that he's a US citizen. And that his name isn't "John Smith" or that each "John Smith" on Super Pages or Google is unique, etc.

SI

Well my census questionaire asked (and I sent it back because like I said I don't care why rustle feathers over this) how old I was,my sex, my type of house, my race, and my phone number. Besides my race I can find accurate information for free (ie the government has put more effort into it than a free website) for every question. What is the point of this exactly?

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeah, but the government doesn't know that there is a panerd out that and that he's a US citizen. And that his name isn't "John Smith" or that each "John Smith" on Super Pages or Google is unique, etc.

SI

You need some official, neutral, way to count people for congressional seat allocation and distribution of federal funds. The process, like everything else in government, could be more efficient. But it seems what really pisses people off (like with jury duty) is just that the government is asking them to do something.

I can see getting upset that the government steals from us and blows the money, but not that it asks us to fill out a form so we can be appropriately represented in Congress.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

Well my census questionaire asked (and I sent it back because like I said I don't care why rustle feathers over this) how old I was,my sex, my type of house, my race, and my phone number. Besides my race I can find accurate information for free (ie the government has put more effort into it than a free website) for every question. What is the point of this exactly?

I get that they can find that information. But how do they determine who is a unique individual? Well, you could use social security number. Instead, they use post office and address system with an already in place infrastructure.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Yeah, I'm sure I'm able to; that's what I've been doing with the kid's forms from school. After the kiddos take the state test, results come back and I see scores based on race - Hispanics scored __%, African American __%, Asian __ %, American Indian __ %, etc. Great info, so where does my kid fall under?

Totally off the top of my head here but I'm thinking on most school test results that, in the absence of an "other" category, then a primary racial/ethnic assignment is made based on whoknowswhat criteria.

It's also possible, I suppose, that the "others" are often too small a sample to avoid being individually identifiable in a single school and are therefore omitted from publically released results altogether.

[AENeuman]

What's hipper: being anti-census or anti-plate tectonics?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm pretty sure you're all allowed to check more than one box and that it's been the case since the 2000 Census.

Yep.

Multiracial No Longer Boxed In By Census | WUSA9.com | Washington, DC |

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by panerd

Well my census questionaire asked (and I sent it back because like I said I don't care why rustle feathers over this) how old I was,my sex, my type of house, my race, and my phone number. Besides my race I can find accurate information for free (ie the government has put more effort into it than a free website) for every question. What is the point of this exactly?

It's the government. As we have seen in the past, different departments do not share information, even if lives might possibly depend on it. So, I am not surprised that the government doesn't have a more efficient and less costly (over 11 billion for this census) way to collect the information. As far as the questions asked, it has varied from the very beginning, though phone number is new I believe.

The reason the government wants to know the answers to the census questions, the two big ones that stand out to me, has to do with how many state representatives each state will be allotted and funding for various projects. Why would the government want to spend money for project X that 10 years ago had 10,000 people, but now only has 2,500 and spend the same amount? I know it's the government and common sense is not a prevailing trait that runs wild in DC, but, they have to figure that stuff out somehow. I find filling out a job or credit application to be far more intrusive than filling out a census form. Besides, the data for each census does not become publicly available until 70 (I think) years after the census was taken and can't be sold, unlike your credit information.

For me, the census has been one of the best tools for ancestry research. Heck, sometimes I wish it was more specific. Maybe some day a hundred years from now, one of my descendants may be trying to look up their family history and run across the 2010 census, I don't mind leaving as much info as possible for them.

I understand that some people are much more private than others and may have a hard time filling the census form out, but, in all honesty, the government does not need a census form if they wanted to pry into your personal life. Just ask J. Edgar Hoover...

[bhlloy]

I have some experience in this field (lists/databases of consumers and public record) and you'd be amazed at some of the cross sections of people it leaves out. Poor, elderly, certain ethnicities etc... When those people are exactly the kind of people that the census is targeted at (people that the government are generally spending money on - and I don't want to make this thread any more political) I think the Census is a pretty invaluable tool. Maybe in 20 years when 99.9% of the population are daily internet users we might see a big move to have the census disappear or at least be online only.

I have to admit I don't agree with most of the adverts which seem like a huge waste of money, but if you are going to commit to it I guess you have to make sure as many people send it back as possible - otherwise what's the damn point.

In terms of the government having more comprehensive lists, I'm sure the NSA and CIA probably do but do we really want them sharing these lists with a bunch of civilian census workers?

[SackAttack]

What I get a kick out of is, the more accurately completed census forms the government gets back, the less they have to spend on filling in the blanks.

So, of course, a lot of the same people who have been railing at President Obama and the Congress for government spending levels in the last year are discouraging people from filling it out.

I can't decide if they think the government will give up and say "Oh well, we tried," or if there's an actual mental disconnect that says making the government spend more than necessary on a Constitutionally mandated task is good for reducing deficit spending.

[larrymcg421]

Uh, these sites do not currently have my correct info. In fact, they have multiple addresses that I do not live at anymore. I welcome being counted for 5 different congressional districts, but it's probably a better idea they send the form.

[Mustang]

There are only 12 spots to list who you live with and given that I live in a clown car with 20 guys... not sure how to proceed.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

The process, like everything else in government, could be more efficient. But it seems what really pisses people off (like with jury duty) is just that the government is asking them to do something.

I think you underestimate how much the inefficiency pisses people off with jury duty. I'd love to serve on a real jury, particularly if I could do it at the one down the street, but instead I'm always called to ones an hour away with limited parking and they dismiss us 4 hours later without ever seating anyone. I've got better things to do than that.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Yeah, I'm sure I'm able to; that's what I've been doing with the kid's forms from school. After the kiddos take the state test, results come back and I see scores based on race - Hispanics scored __%, African American __%, Asian __ %, American Indian __ %, etc. Great info, so where does my kid fall under?

It's different. For government forms, they count the races twice. So your kids get counted twice. For school stuff? Most school districts have their own methodology, but historically, the one-drop rule is employed. It was reported in years past that some schools would just eyeball the kids and pick a race for them, for especially "cute" parents that like to check other or create their own boxes or check more than one. It might be better now, but...I doubt it, given that most of the systems they use don't have space for "others" and make you pick one and only one.

[RainMaker]

I got mine and don't really see what the fuss is about. I mean unless you have not worked for someone, paid a dime in taxes, owned property, had a bank account, voted, and so on, they already have ten times the information they are asking for right now. And they don't use that for a census because it could be off a bit and each state/county treat things differently.

But in all seriousness, if you don't live in IL-5, please feel free to discard your census.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Here's a new way to look at it for those of you who are refusing to fill out the census. If you fill it out and send it in, it costs nothing additional for the census takers to get your data. If you refuse to fill out the census, it costs an additional $56 per household to make a personal visit to your home to find out whether anyone lives there. Here's the math on that......

120M households are sent a census questionaire
60% of those households do not return their questionaires in a timely manner.
72M personal visits are required to verify who lives in those households or if anyone lives there anymore.

$4,032,000,000 of taxpayer dollars spent that could have been saved had everyone just filled out their questionaire.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Here's a new way to look at it for those of you who are refusing to fill out the census. If you fill it out and send it in, it costs nothing additional for the census takers to get your data. If you refuse to fill out the census, it costs an additional $56 per household to make a personal visit to your home to find out whether anyone lives there. Here's the math on that......

Not being pedantic - but why don't the goverment just fine anyone not returning it promptly say $70 .... it'd increase the return ratio instantly and cover any costs involved for those who don't.