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NHL 18 Gameplay Trailer: Creative Attack Dekes, Defensive Skill Stick, Creative AI

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Old 07-18-2017, 08:58 AM   #41
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Re: NHL 18 Gameplay Trailer: Creative Attack Dekes, Defensive Skill Stick, Creative A

Honestly, I don't think we will see major updates to this game until the next generation of consoles arrives. XBox One X will be released this november and PS5 should arrive late 2018, which means EA will probably release NHL 19 for both gens with some minor updates.

With the next gen, hopefully we will see the debut of many things: Frosbite, roster sharing, story mode, better AI, player differentiation, etc.

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Old 07-18-2017, 10:48 AM   #42
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Re: NHL 18 Gameplay Trailer: Creative Attack Dekes, Defensive Skill Stick, Creative A

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Originally Posted by Reff99
Honestly, I don't think we will see major updates to this game until the next generation of consoles arrives. XBox One X will be released this november and PS5 should arrive late 2018, which means EA will probably release NHL 19 for both gens with some minor updates.

With the next gen, hopefully we will see the debut of many things: Frosbite, roster sharing, story mode, better AI, player differentiation, etc.
I hate to sound overly negative, but I was saying the exact same thing about the switch from the previous generation (PS3, etc) to the PS4, thinking that once they stopped supporting those legacy consoles the AI would get better...and it didn't.

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I've always wondered (truly, and not in an abrasive way), how Rammer still has a job?! There seems to be a huge lack of leadership, information, direction,... I could go on and on. Just has baffled me for quite a while now.

And if he is not the problem, even getting some new blood in would likely be welcoming.

Just my opinion...


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I think it's because he's doing what EA wants. I don't think EA themselves much care how realistic the on ice presentation and gameplay is, because online play and the money making HUT seem to be the bigger concern.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:53 AM   #43
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Re: NHL 18 Gameplay Trailer: Creative Attack Dekes, Defensive Skill Stick, Creative A

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Originally Posted by actionhank
I hate to sound overly negative, but I was saying the exact same thing about the switch from the previous generation (PS3, etc) to the PS4, thinking that once they stopped supporting those legacy consoles the AI would get better...and it didn't.
I'm still playing Legacy on PS3 and in my opinion, AI is way better on old gen. But I can't imagine how next gen games could be worse than they are now. Maybe I'm too naive...
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:54 PM   #44
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Re: NHL 18 Gameplay Trailer: Creative Attack Dekes, Defensive Skill Stick, Creative A

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Originally Posted by Reff99
I'm still playing Legacy on PS3 and in my opinion, AI is way better on old gen. But I can't imagine how next gen games could be worse than they are now. Maybe I'm too naive...
I think the issues seemed to pop up with the switch to the newer physics engine. The AI never did seem to learn to handle their own momentum, so they end up out of position from sliding.

I notice it all the time when they bump into their own goalie, or especially when you make a save and then your defenders all start scooting away from the net at breakneck speed.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:05 PM   #45
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Re: NHL 18 Gameplay Trailer: Creative Attack Dekes, Defensive Skill Stick, Creative A

the goalies look like a bunch of c***s that are dumbed down so that the dekes look better. Egads.
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Old 07-20-2017, 12:16 AM   #46
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Re: NHL 18 Gameplay Trailer: Creative Attack Dekes, Defensive Skill Stick, Creative A

Let's dive into the trailer a little bit...



Let's look at this sweet-looking deke from Jonathan Drouin on Tuukka Rask here. Looks pretty fantastic. But let's consider some negatives. Drouin is coming in on Rask at a pretty straight angle, so Rask isn't in the middle of a ton of lateral motion at the moment. Yet when he pushes with his right skate as Drouin slips the puck past, he doesn't get a lot of force sending him into the path of the puck. More worryingly, he doesn't attempt to stretch out his pad and easily stop the puck. Let's contrast with every single goal in this video.



What makes the Forsberg so effective is that the skater gets the goalie moving side-to-side enough that the 'tender can't get back in time to stop the puck, which he tries to rectify by sticking his pad out as far as it can go. Rask does nothing of the sort in the above pic from the trailer. Even if you say he had lateral movement going before the cut-in to the clip, he would still stick out his pad. Take a look at the last clip in the vid, Zetterberg, who has the least lateral movement of any of the players highlighted. He still has some though, but importantly, Smith sticks his big pad out, to no avail. The no avail, at least, is consistent with Rask in the trailer.




What in the world is Patrick Kane doing here? Seabrook (AI) clearly has the puck, but Kane is rushing towards him, into the zone, when the Blackhawks should be breaking it out—especially since there's little forecheck pressure. This results, seconds later, in Kane being flatfooted in the circle, next to Seabrook, with Duncan Keith having only one man to pass to, with that guy, Toews, having two Canucks in front of him cutting off angles and passing lanes. Kane is not rushing in from the bench—that's on the right side of the ice—but there may be an explanation. It's a short clip after all. Good thing to note: Keith is nicely placed behind the net for Seabrook to swing it around to. I mean, there's no forecheck, and there is actually a Blackhawk player straight up the boards whom Seabrook is facing when he gets the puck, but Keith is in a very nice position.




Edmonton shows us some less-than-stellar defensive coverage on this one. The right defenseman gives Forsberg oodles of space on the boards, and the left defenseman allows Johansen great inside position to receive the pass, making no move at all to defend against the pass. He should, since McDavid has nicely backchecked to take away the third forward. Subtly, the right defenseman faces towards the middle of the ice while backskating feebly at Forsberg, and then turns around with the pass long by him. I think he would be best suited having his chest pointed at the puck carrier, giving him greater defensive range with his stick to, say, break up a centering pass. But that's just me. The left pylon, er, defenseman, lets Johansen cut behind him (away from the puck) to sweetly receive the pass and bury it. Classic Oilers!


There are a lot of things to love in this trailer. My favourite was the Seth Jones defensive play, where he had his stick extended and then brought it level to the ice to stop a cross crease pass. Let's see more of that! Looking forward to seeing further trailers and hopefully some deep-dives from the devs before the game comes out.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:11 PM   #47
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Re: NHL 18 Gameplay Trailer: Creative Attack Dekes, Defensive Skill Stick, Creative A

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From my personal opinion, EA always looked better in terms of actual on ice movement from what I saw back when 2K was pumping out sports games. I just never could get into the 2K animations. But, I loved that EA had pressure.

Because, in my opinion, the game really started to suffer in terms of stagnation and becoming what a lot of people saw as essentially a patch every year when EA started to focus on the online modes like HUT, and lost their competition. Without competition, there's no one across the hall forcing you to innovate and try new and daring things.

EA slowly seemed to lose focus on the offline crowd, and things like innovations in franchise mode only seemed to come around because of things that happened for online play first. As someone that just never was a fan of online play it was frustrating. The AI in game seemed to never really progress with the player control, and flashy offense always took front seat to more sound defensive controls. It looks like they're finally addressing the defensive side with the stick, but even assuming that the controls all work as intended, the AI has to be better or it won't matter. I will just do a better job of cutting off passing lanes while my AI teammates stand around reading board advertisements.

All in all, it's impossible to guess what 2K would be bringing to the table, especially seeing how they couldn't compete with other game series, like The Show...but they also really stepped up and seized the market in the NBA, which would be an amazing thing for the NHL series to have their customization options, something many have asked for for a long time.
I definitely agree with you on that. You have to get past it in order to enjoy it. What I will say is that for how bad the goalies looked in 2k, they were far and away better with animations and movement then EA. What's even funnier is the 2k goalies are still a million times better then EA's. They were so life like in their movements. I always said, if you put 2k's goalie movement and save animations on the EA goalies, you would have the perfect goalies. Then implement personal stances and all that jazz. You would have something amazing.
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Old 07-24-2017, 12:54 PM   #48
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Re: NHL 18 Gameplay Trailer: Creative Attack Dekes, Defensive Skill Stick, Creative A

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Originally Posted by bwiggy33
I definitely agree with you on that. You have to get past it in order to enjoy it. What I will say is that for how bad the goalies looked in 2k, they were far and away better with animations and movement then EA. What's even funnier is the 2k goalies are still a million times better then EA's. They were so life like in their movements. I always said, if you put 2k's goalie movement and save animations on the EA goalies, you would have the perfect goalies. Then implement personal stances and all that jazz. You would have something amazing.
I think my biggest issue with the EA goalies is that they correctly try to stay centered on the puck, lining it up with their body...buuuuuut, they don't factor in much else, it seems.

A lot of times my issues with goalies comes from the fact that the AI forwards can deke so quickly from one extreme to the other, and goalies will slide way out of position to guard a deke to the backhand, leaving them unable to get back to the crease for the move to the forehand.

Similarly they just play too deep in their nets, and don't square up to a lot of shots that should be relatively easy saves.

It's been one of my biggest frustrations, next to the teammate AI. The goals that should go in don't because they sprawl and dive everywhere, moving in unrealistic ways without any real sliding issues, but then at the same time, the easy saves are usually missed because the AI moves out of position or just sits in the net slumped over, leaving the net top wide open.
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