Body strikes and level changes

[Kingslayer04]

Lauriedriver mentioned something I've noticed too, in a recent thread, namely the body strikes forcing you do duck very conspicuously, whereas in real life fighters often just extend their arms and blast the body from what I've seen, no such ducking is required, at least not always. As a result the strikes are faster and safer too.
Now, I'm not necessarily pushing for a change here. I just like how the body shots look and feel in real life, but it can be argued that if it was like that in the game, it would be very difficult to distinguish between head and body shots which would also make punishing body shots harder. So, what do you guys think, is any change warranted, can it be done without causing more issues or are things good as they are?

[Boiler569]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

I'm OK with body strike requiring a level change, and putting you in a vulnerable spot.

I do wish that hit detection was a bit more dynamic....meaning if you level change but ALSO slip to the left, and opponent simply throws an uppercut...more likely to be a glancing blow (or even total whiff).

Yes, level change does give you some head movement & evasive properties as a body puncher, but obviously the RISK of getting insta-knocked down (or even out) is a bit over the top.

[1212headkick]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

Body hooks need a buff its why you see the knee spam. Id rather deal with body hooks than knees. Nick diaz doesn't feel like nick. At the time of their nerf block counters didn't exist

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

Body hooks need a buff its why you see the knee spam. Id rather deal with body hooks than knees. Nick diaz doesn't feel like nick. At the time of their nerf block counters didn't exist

....They weren't nerfed, and they literally are extremely effective now. You land a 4 piece body hook combo with Frankie Edgar, and you already have them at danger for a body health event, and his boxing isn't even at Nick Diaz's level nor does he have body snatcher.

People think you can just throw naked body hooks with predictable timing and get away with it. Look at Aldo, Holloway, RDA, TJ Dillashaw, etc etc, they mask their body punches with their head strikes, Movement, feints etc.

Your problem is that you want to essentially swarm somebody against the cage with body hooks, and that isn't a body hook issue, that's a game mechanic issue because you can't necessarily free flow with strikes.

The body block counters are inconsistent and side dependeny as well, and they don't do enough damage anyways considering the difficulty it takes to pull them off, so that's a moot point.

I can list countless of ways to effectively use body hooks, for Christ sake, I beat multiple Jones players with friggin Gokhan Saki, and one of those dudes was ranked #17.


Watching your last ESFL fight and other fights, you don't have the style that would allow you to even use Nick the way you describe it, you use the side kicks everytime somebody gets close to you, so I don't see how you expect to land body hook strikes if you keep pushing them away, and not pressuring. Dridzoe, Preunited, UniBot, etc etc all have great Nick Diaz's and that's because they use him effectively.

Also, I don't know how you correlate body hooks being a cause for knee spam, if you watched Donald Cerrone fight Alexander Hernandez, the more Alexander went for those body hooks, Cerrone started timing knees to his head as he went for them, so what would you think would have if people became body hook horny. Not only that, there's already a tracking issue that you can't even lunge away from body punches, so there's that.


Knee spam happens because people have a deficiency in a few areas of the game, so they resort to a frustrating style that's based on frustration, like many other games that have 'cheesy' styles. (SC3, Tekken, MK with certain characters, Injustice with Zoning)

[1212headkick]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

....They weren't nerfed, and they literally are extremely effective now. You land a 4 piece body hook combo with Frankie Edgar, and you already have them at danger for a body health event, and his boxing isn't even at Nick Diaz's level nor does he have body snatcher.

People think you can just throw naked body hooks with predictable timing and get away with it. Look at Aldo, Holloway, RDA, TJ Dillashaw, etc etc, they mask their body punches with their head strikes, Movement, feints etc.

Your problem is that you want to essentially swarm somebody against the cage with body hooks, and that isn't a body hook issue, that's a game mechanic issue because you can't necessarily free flow with strikes.

The body block counters are inconsistent and side dependeny as well, and they don't do enough damage anyways considering the difficulty it takes to pull them off, so that's a moot point.

I can list countless of ways to effectively use body hooks, for Christ sake, I beat multiple Jones players with friggin Gokhan Saki, and one of those dudes was ranked #17.


Watching your last ESFL fight and other fights, you don't have the style that would allow you to even use Nick the way you describe it, you use the side kicks everytime somebody gets close to you, so I don't see how you expect to land body hook strikes if you keep pushing them away, and not pressuring. Dridzoe, Preunited, UniBot, etc etc all have great Nick Diaz's and that's because they use him effectively.

Also, I don't know how you correlate body hooks being a cause for knee spam, if you watched Donald Cerrone fight Alexander Hernandez, the more Alexander went for those body hooks, Cerrone started timing knees to his head as he went for them, so what would you think would have if people became body hook horny. Not only that, there's already a tracking issue that you can't even lunge away from body punches, so there's that.


Knee spam happens because people have a deficiency in a few areas of the game, so they resort to a frustrating style that's based on frustration, like many other games that have 'cheesy' styles. (SC3, Tekken, MK with certain characters, Injustice with Zoning)

Body knees are more effective working the body than hooks. The damage base is higher but the execution frames are roughly the same. So why go for a body hook when knees do the same thing? Look at the frame data yourself. My statements are based on numbers. I use gsp with 87 chin so of course i wont throw body hooks often. Thats a noob mistake. Theres also an issue with the check hook where it does an extra backsway. With uppers being way to rewarding for body counters its fair to talk about. Timing block counters isnt hard. If you release block when you see your elbow being raised and input the hook its easy. People hold block too long when they perform them. Theyre far easier than people know.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

Body knees are more effective working the body than hooks. The damage base is higher but the execution frames are roughly the same. So why go for a body hook when knees do the same thing? Look at the frame data yourself. My statements are based on numbers. I use gsp with 87 chin so of course i wont throw body hooks often. Thats a noob mistake. Theres also an issue with the check hook where it does an extra backsway. With uppers being way to rewarding for body counters its fair to talk about. Timing block counters isnt hard. If you release block when you see your elbow being raised and input the hook its easy. People hold block too long when they perform them. Theyre far easier than people know.

You're going to tell the guy, who made a whole video on doing block counters, who does block counters on live stream all the time, how to do it.

Wonderful.

Knees can be caught, body hooks can't obviously.


They can be lunged, aside from the one error where it can track your head, but that will be fixed soon.

Body hooks whether you lunge away from them correctly or not, they cannot be lunged away from and will track 100% of the time at the moment.

I use Gohkan Saki, who has worst overall health stats than GSP, and set up body hooks relatively easily on dudes like Jones, Gus, DC.

On PS4, Body Hooks are pretty much the meta, don't know if it's apparently more difficult on XBox or something lol.


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[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

They can be lunged, aside from the one error where it can track your head, but that will be fixed soon.
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Where was this said? Cause ****ing hell its annoying.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

On the topic though some shots do not require a level change at all. They just need adjusted with there normal counters being their counters ingame.

For left hooks its right hooks and rear uppercuts of blocking.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

Where was this said? Cause ****ing hell its annoying.

I tagged Geoff in that video on Twitter, (

https://twitter.com/ARomeroXVII/status/1092948965392351232?s=09

and also tagged him in the video where this nonsense happened

https://Check out @ARomeroXVII’s Twe...262400001?s=09


Big issues need to get fixed with regards to tracking.

[HereticFighter]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

....They weren't nerfed, and they literally are extremely effective now.

Body hooks were most definitely nerfed season 3 ish? both the range and speed was significantly reduced.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

Body hooks were most definitely nerfed season 3 ish? both the range and speed was significantly reduced.

The range was reduced to a realistic stand point, so the 'nerf' didn't really affect me I guess.

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[HereticFighter]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

The range was reduced to a realistic stand point, so the 'nerf' didn't really affect me I guess.

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I agree the range is much better now. I feel like forward moving body hooks are a bit slow. They work nice in stationary combos, but the startup on moving hooks even singles, makes them feel like you're punching underwater. They look like they would do no damage because of how slow they are. So everyone throws jab body hook, or body hook head hook, or lead hook body hook. It just makes the combos very uninteresting and i really think that it contributes to the knee spam, since its way easier, faster and safer to spam.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

I agree the range is much better now. I feel like forward moving body hooks are a bit slow. They work nice in stationary combos, but the startup on moving hooks even singles, makes them feel like you're punching underwater. They look like they would do no damage because of how slow they are. So everyone throws jab body hook, or body hook head hook, or lead hook body hook. It just makes the combos very uninteresting and i really think that it contributes to the knee spam, since its way easier, faster and safer to spam.

To an extent. Gives me an idea, I should make a list for effective body combos.

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[1212headkick]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

To an extent. Gives me an idea, I should make a list for effective body combos.

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Please do my friend

[HereticFighter]

Re: Body strikes and level changes

I second that. It would be very helpful. Thanks