Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

[papinho81]

In real life, game against rival teams have always something special. Fans often consider their team have their season saved, despite a disappointing position on the table, if they were the better team on the home and away fixture against their rival. I suppose I am not teaching you anything right now.

I like the idea that PES try to take into account those rival games and allow us setting the rivalries for every team in the game.
But man... the way these games are implemented in PES is very painful...
They are so hard to win. The cpu always wants to play those game in Terminator mode. Their are pressuring like the Barca of the better years. Everything they do is more accurate than in others kind of games (their tackling is crazy). Also they seem to always want to attack (Orange attacking level). It would not bother me to much if it would only happen in the away fixture (I mean cpu home), but no, they are making everything to try humiliating you in front of your fans.

I don't know how many of those games I have played so far (10+). I have only won one.
Here a screenshot of the stats of the end of the game.

Spoiler

Rival_game_OL_ASSE.jpg

I have been lucky. They didn't manage to score on their many chances during the first 30mins and I converted a ball stolen to a defender in the last 15mins of the game. For the first time I decided to adopt the same offensive attitude the cpu started the game (Orange level). We (cpu & me) stayed all game in orange level. I am not sure if it helped in the end. May be to display the same aggressive attitude the cpu used (higher lines...).

At some point, around the half time, I asked myself SHOULD I DELETE THE RIVALRIES?
But at the end of the game I was pretty happy to finish with a clean sheat and the game was somehow fun (but insanely intense) to play defensively. I used contain (R2) a lot to face cpu players and cut the passing lines which seemed to have worked quite efficiently, at least during the second half.


So what do you do guys? Do you use team rivalries? If yes, how do you handle the cpu during those games?

[DirtyCobra]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

I love the rivalry games. I agree they are much much tougher and intense, however it makes me play precise football and focus immensely on my tactics and how I play the game. I love when the CPU pressures me. It forces me use different tactics and better judgement when playing.

I was playing Inter vs Milan. Inter pressured me so high up the field I could not breath. To string together 3 or 4 consecutive passes was incredibly hard. It forced me to come out of my shell and change my tactics and game plan. I had to absorb a lot of their pressure on my goal. I went from my usual short passing, possession oriented build up to more of a long ball approach in order to relieve the pressure. Their game plan actually forced me have to think about my every aspect of football as a manager much more in depth. Ie tactics, formations, substitutions etc.

Their gameplan actually helped me to a degree as it caused them to commit a lot of fouls. Their pressuring seemed to have fatigued them. After 84 minutes of surviving, finally a break. I had a long ball finally get pass their defenders cleanly. I was able to draw a foul close enough to their side line to allow me to place a beautiful free kick into their box. I got a head on the ball and put one in the corner just out of the reach of their keeper. That goal put me in a state of bliss. I was jumping up and down like a madman.

I thought it was over. I mean like hook the leg WWE Style 1,2,3 its all over, but nope. I made a horrible clearance maybe 25-30 yards outside of my box and they scored a rocket deflection goal in the 88th. It was the most deflating tie game ever. But yet one of the most exhilarating games of PES I have ever played.

[RoyceDa59]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

I haven't seen anything too alarming from Rivalry matches but overall I really like them. They can seem a bit much but it definitely adds a different element than most matches.

[papinho81]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

I love the rivalry games. I agree they are much much tougher and intense, however it makes me play precise football and focus immensely on my tactics and how I play the game. I love when the CPU pressures me. It forces me use different tactics and better judgement when playing.

I was playing Inter vs Milan. Inter pressured me so high up the field I could not breath. To string together 3 or 4 consecutive passes was incredibly hard. It forced me to come out of my shell and change my tactics and game plan. I had to absorb a lot of their pressure on my goal. I went from my usual short passing, possession oriented build up to more of a long ball approach in order to relieve the pressure. Their game plan actually forced me have to think about my every aspect of football as a manager much more in depth. Ie tactics, formations, substitutions etc.

Their gameplan actually helped me to a degree as it caused them to commit a lot of fouls. Their pressuring seemed to have fatigued them. After 84 minutes of surviving, finally a break. I had a long ball finally get pass their defenders cleanly. I was able to draw a foul close enough to their side line to allow me to place a beautiful free kick into their box. I got a head on the ball and put one in the corner just out of the reach of their keeper. That goal put me in a state of bliss. I was jumping up and down like a madman.

I thought it was over. I mean like hook the leg WWE Style 1,2,3 its all over, but nope. I made a horrible clearance maybe 25-30 yards outside of my box and they scored a rocket deflection goal in the 88th. It was the most deflating tie game ever. But yet one of the most exhilarating games of PES I have ever played.

The description of you game until you scored could be a perfect description of my game against ST Etienne. I like the idea of being forced to use long balls to release form cpu pressure and avoid mistakes in my last third. But would I need to use the same approach with Barca against Español at the Camp Nou?

I have noticed games with the rivalry set for both team are the tougher. If only one team has it, it seems it is almost not noticeable.

[papinho81]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

I don't know if it is the combo of superstar level and rivaleries but I always loose those games by 3+ goals. Even if I try to maintain a maximal focus to pass the ball around to move out from the cpu pressure and avoid to move my players and open gap in my defense, I concede many goals and usually at least one in the first 15min. After this first one the cpu is even more boosted. I rarely break the cpu and each time I make a small difference, bam!!! I get tackled from behind. Even with a men down the cpu continues attacking (sometimes it happens that one of the 7-8 yellow cards the cpu receive is given to the same guy). What annoys me even more is that in those games the cpu always play the same way, no matter who you are playing with or against, it is, press press press, attack attack attack, tackle tackle tackle.

Do you manage to win rival games on superstar? If yes, I would be happy to watch a video of such a game.

[Chrisx]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

I don't know if it is the combo of superstar level and rivaleries but I always loose those games by 3+ goals. Even if I try to maintain a maximal focus to pass the ball around to move out from the cpu pressure and avoid to move my players and open gap in my defense, I concede many goals and usually at least one in the first 15min. After this first one the cpu is even more boosted. I rarely break the cpu and each time I make a small difference, bam!!! I get tackled from behind. Even with a men down the cpu continues attacking (sometimes it happens that one of the 7-8 yellow cards the cpu receive is given to the same guy). What annoys me even more is that in those games the cpu always play the same way, no matter who you are playing with or against, it is, press press press, attack attack attack, tackle tackle tackle.

Do you manage to win rival games on superstar? If yes, I would be happy to watch a video of such a game.

I was playing on superstar, with assisted controls, and my main frustration was rival games (and other games where there is an artificial difficulty spike). All other matches were great fun and a good battle regardless of the result.

To combat this (and to get some more variety), I switched to manual controls and Pro difficulty, and after getting used to it a bit it felt great. But, surprisingly, rival games felt almost exactly the same! Lost my last one 4-0, and had just 1 shot on goal. Now, I'm not that good with manual controls yet (played maybe 2/3 of a season with them) but I'm tempted to say that the boosts given to the CPU for certain matches seem OP to be honest.

It's the right idea, but the execution seems way wayyyy over the top.

[papinho81]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

Strangely enough, applying the LiveUpdate (following the recommandations of BL8001) has dramatically improved the balance of rival games. Had a great classico yesterday that I lost 2-0 but I felt I had my chances. CPU tackling and sharpness were less insane and my players were behaving miles better than before. They were able to compete in 50/50 balls more than before.
Yesterday I was seriously considering removing all rival settings, not anymore.

This an example of the hell I was living before applying the Liveupdate (poor quality sorry) and it was one were I was doing well:

https://www.twitch.tv/papinho811/v/106289882

I will post in the next few days a similar video post Liveupdate

[kashik]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

Strangely enough, applying the LiveUpdate (following the recommandations of BL8001) has dramatically improved the balance of rival games. Had a great classico yesterday that I lost 2-0 but I felt I had my chances. CPU tackling and sharpness were less insane and my players were behaving miles better than before. They were able to compete in 50/50 balls more than before.
Yesterday I was seriously considering removing all rival settings, not anymore.

This an example of the hell I was living before applying the Liveupdate (poor quality sorry) and it was one were I was doing well:

https://www.twitch.tv/papinho811/v/106289882

I will post in the next few days a similar video post Liveupdate

I'm not sure what a live update would do to the game play. Most of my rivalry/derby/big game matches are insane, but some - very few - are competitive and enjoyable.

I just went through 5 games in a row where I played two late cup matches, 2 top 4 teams when I'm 2nd place, and finally against a team trying for European competition next season... Didn't lose any of the games, but not one was enjoyable.

I ended up winning two games (cup matches both won in penalties) and tying three. The thing that really really got me upset with these matches was if I went up. The computer responded in three of those matches with goals I can tell you that I was not meant to prevent.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Chrisx]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

I will have to try the live update. Sounds really familiar and I haven't done a live update for months.

Another thing about rivalries (I may be wrong but it's my experience so far) is that rival matches can range from 'hard but fair' to 'almost unplayable' depending on the team that is set as a rival. For example in the PL I have 3 rivals, one of them Arsenal, and only games against Arsenal are -consistently and predictably- unplayable because of the cpu boosts and aggression. The others? Still strong teams, tough matches but they tend to play out much better. It's strange.

[papinho81]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

I will have to try the live update. Sounds really familiar and I haven't done a live update for months.

Another thing about rivalries (I may be wrong but it's my experience so far) is that rival matches can range from 'hard but fair' to 'almost unplayable' depending on the team that is set as a rival. For example in the PL I have 3 rivals, one of them Arsenal, and only games against Arsenal are -consistently and predictably- unplayable because of the cpu boosts and aggression. The others? Still strong teams, tough matches but they tend to play out much better. It's strange.

Check if they also have you set as a rival, what about Arsenal?

[Chrisx]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

Check if they also have you set as a rival, what about Arsenal?

Yes all teams have me as a rival. It seems to be a bigger problem with teams that are programmed to play in a specific way. For example arsenal seem like they use gegenpress all over the pitch but it's not actually set in their game plan.

But I think we're on to something with the live update because I applied the live update, started a new ML, and played two games with Arsenal on Superstar (I reloaded), and both were more balanced and less insanely hectic. A 1-1 draw and a 1-0 loss where I actually stood a chance both offensively and on D.

Then I tried the same matchup in a league mode save that I had started before applying the live update and it seems unaffected. It was an awful game with barely any time to take a breath. If the live update is indeed the fix (small test sample, but hey) it kinda sucks that we have to start a new save.

[papinho81]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

Old topic, but I just wanted to say that NO rivalries is not an option because some rivalries are hard coded in the game.

Also using an PC editor tool (Dino tool) we can read that three types of rivalries exist 0, 1, 2.

"2" seems to correspond to games against teams in different divisions, example: Chelsea vs Fulham; Newcastle vs Middlesbrough; Real Madrid vs Getafe; ect...

"0" seems to correspond to local derby so with a geographical proximity component (the most common type),
example: United vs City; Arsenal vs Chelsea; Real Madrid vs Atlético; ect...

"1" seems to correspond to rival game between teams witohout geographical proximity.
Example: OM vs PSG; Barca vs Real; Ajax vs Feyenoord, Boca Junior vs River Plate.

All the mentioned derby (and many others) are hard coded in the game (at least for PS4 user like me).

Edit: Boca and River are both in Buenos Aires so I am not sure about the 1. Amsterdam and Rotterdam are also quite close geographically.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: Rivaleries OR no rivaleries?

Rivalries are poorly implemented. Firstly, the commentators acknowledge the rivalry between Tottenham and Arsenal even if I haven't added them as rivals so the atmosphere is already there. Secondly, the rival matches are exclusively bad for you, the actual player as most of your players will be affected in different and unpredictable ways, and the match AI is set to the same cheaty crap that's used in CL-finals and similar matches.