PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

[MrArlingtonBeach]

I mentioned this in the PGA 2K21 impression forum, but think this might merit its own thread.

HB and 2K made a massive change to the swing mechanic today, nerfing the "very red fast" swing that people had be using to gain added distance and get an easily repeatable "power hook" each and every time.

Instead, now the very red fast swing will result in a drive that carries just 220 yards. Here is some testing done by a TGC Tours member: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGeNgSS0IIE

It appears that the penalties occur the faster you swing. Also, no changes seem to have been made to how slow swings work.

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Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

A standing O from this 2K21 player for this change! I'm getting to where I play more and more online matchmaking now, and I always feel like it cheapens the experience when someone is using the Red Fast exploit, whether I win the match or not. By using it, the player is taking half of the possible bad outcomes out of the equation. Yes, it takes skill to use it properly, but in doing so you're taking away any potential for a hook or slice.

It will be interesting to see how this affects scoring now. I might have a chance at finishing in the top half of the field now in the TGC Tours Beer League!

[lowpaiddonkey10]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

Better than nothing and it sure took long enough. Red/Fast should result in a pull or a smother not a 220 yard drive.

[lowpaiddonkey10]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

A standing O from this 2K21 player for this change! I'm getting to where I play more and more online matchmaking now, and I always feel like it cheapens the experience when someone is using the Red Fast exploit, whether I win the match or not. By using it, the player is taking half of the possible bad outcomes out of the equation. Yes, it takes skill to use it properly, but in doing so you're taking away any potential for a hook or slice.

It will be interesting to see how this affects scoring now. I might have a chance at finishing in the top half of the field now in the TGC Tours Beer League!

Doubt it the guys I watch on YouTube that use this exploit are certainly good enough to almost always get near Perfects. Watch the approach shots into the greens. The best are near Perfect almost every time. So they don't reach the longest Par 5's in 2 big deal.

[bigkev]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

It sounds good on one way, but I'm sure a lot of old timers will be upset HB is catering to the TGC Tour again. So what's the risk/reward shot in the game now? Or the aim is just to hit perfect all the time. That's what I like about TW14, using diagonal swing for extra distance on high draw or fade.

[MrArlingtonBeach]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

It sounds good on one way, but I'm sure a lot of old timers will be upset HB is catering to the TGC Tour again. So what's the risk/reward shot in the game now? Or the aim is just to hit perfect all the time. That's what I like about TW14, using diagonal swing for extra distance on high draw or fade.

Sounds like the goal of this is to encourage perfects - Doyley over at TGC Tours said this: "HB Studios has changed how red fasts affect your golf ball. You now lose distance the worse you hit into red tempo making the fast tempo much less desirable and predictable. The end goal is to make perfect tempo the ideal tempo to go for. It's a massive gameplay change that will shake the foundation of many players. Many of you that relied on the red fast will have some adjustments to make. Those that played for perfects will have little to no adjustments."

That said, the red very slow has not been affected off the tee, so you can repeat a very red slow drive and still get about 285 carry and 315 with roll out using the max distance Titleist driver. You lose a bit of distance, but you take the very red fast 220-yard duck hook out of play by doing this.

I still think the wildest thing about this is that they made this change EIGHT MONTHS after the game came out, and after devs said the swing mechanic was "working as intended"...then all of a sudden, boom, red fasts get nerfed.

[DaKingPin87]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

A standing O from this 2K21 player for this change! I'm getting to where I play more and more online matchmaking now, and I always feel like it cheapens the experience when someone is using the Red Fast exploit, whether I win the match or not. By using it, the player is taking half of the possible bad outcomes out of the equation. Yes, it takes skill to use it properly, but in doing so you're taking away any potential for a hook or slice.

It will be interesting to see how this affects scoring now. I might have a chance at finishing in the top half of the field now in the TGC Tours Beer League!

I'd probably re-join the Beer League if this curtails the cheating

[DaKingPin87]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

As someone who tried to play the game as it was intended without the gimmicks, I appreciate the update. I haven't played in a 7-10 days and noticed in a society thread they were talking about this.

Now they just need to erase chipping on the greens and we're at actual how good are you playing the game like golf scoring.

How fast your internet connection is (I'm now on fiber; PS4 LAN Cable test was 400 mbps v. 65-80 I used to get ) seems to make a difference in the swing timing having not played it in awhile. I usually struggle at the beginning to get perfects and I was drilling shots this morning.

I wonder how this update will affect societies that removed the swing timing entirely to thwart this.

[RIFRIG]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

When I see updates like this in a well established game it reassures me that HB studios are absolutely clueless in what’s needed to retain a customer for future iterations of this game.

What a mess they have made of a decent game....SMH

[scagwi]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

I’ll say it again and I’m sure many will disagree...

If this series is a failure over the long term when going head to head with EA’s next game...The undoing will be retaining (and now purchasing) HB.

HB simply aren’t “amazing” at this.

They do an Ok job, but that’s about it.

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Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

Doubt it the guys I watch on YouTube that use this exploit are certainly good enough to almost always get near Perfects. Watch the approach shots into the greens. The best are near Perfect almost every time. So they don't reach the longest Par 5's in 2 big deal.

The elite players in this game don't need to exploit the Red Fasts, because as you say, they are equally capable of getting a high percentage of Perfects. I think *some* elite players do it because they feel they have to in order to compete. I just hate to see people feel driven to have to adopt it.

I'm not good enough at this game to intentionally try to play a "Fast" of any degree, but some are. A "White Fast" doesn't appear to lose any carry and still might in fact carry a bit more. I'm all for a player being rewarded with a little extra carry for a White Fast, and really to some degree - Red Fast. At a certain degree, a draw turns into a duck hook and will definitely lose carry. I never tried to use the "Fast" game so I really can't say how hard it is to shoot for a Red Fast versus a Red Very Fast. I could see that a lot of people had gotten good at doing that and it takes some skill to do so. It just looks cheesy to me when I see it in action.

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Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

Also, no changes seem to have been made to how slow swings work.

This is a real head-scratcher for me. Why would you do it on one end and not the other? I don't hear of people exploiting "Red Slows", but I guess it's possible? It only makes sense that if you're going to punish fasts you need to at least punish slows, to some scale?

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Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

When I see updates like this in a well established game it reassures me that HB studios are absolutely clueless in what’s needed to retain a customer for future iterations of this game.

What a mess they have made of a decent game....SMH

They stood by their 'game is working as designed' stance on this for 3/4 of a year now. I welcome the change, but isn't a little bit late and also a bit half-baked? If you're going to add a penalty for lost distance on a Red Fast, or beyond, shouldn't also impose one of scale for a Red Slow or beyond?

[scagwi]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

JC - Massive respect for you being fairly critical of the 2K/HB situation here.

I know you're overall a big fan and thus, for me, it carries even more weight when you hold their feet to the fire.

[MrArlingtonBeach]

Re: PGA 2K21 Swing Updated - Red Fasts Nerfed

Imagine MLB The Show adjusting batting or pitching mechanics in December...I'm still a bit blown away that it's 8 months after release, and they're just changing this now! Not to mention, the devs said on the HB forums that the swing was working as expected up until this point. So something happened recently to "change their minds"...

Also, this is not just affecting shots off the tee with driver, this impacts all kinds of shots, too. Now, if you red fast an iron shot just a bit too far, you're losing a ton of distance. Hitting a shot over the green really isn't even an outcome anymore...

Someone mentioned on the HB forum that they had 185 yards to the pin on a par 3, hit a red fast, and the shot went just 145. Pitches, which are already a pain, will also be greatly affected by this. I can see a lot of disgruntled people hating this update - and they wouldn't even be folks who used the red fast exploit!