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Madden 18 CFM Interview with Clint Oldenburg(Sports Gamers Online)

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Old 06-18-2017, 07:32 PM   #17
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Re: Madden 18 CFM Interview with Clint Oldenburg(Sports Gamers Online)

it was a great interview

on the pro bowl maybe they couild go back to the Red A and blue N helmets
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:45 PM   #18
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Re: Madden 18 CFM Interview with Clint Oldenburg(Sports Gamers Online)

Being someone who was screaming for the "quick season" from NCAA 14 to come into Madden, I LOVE the sound of this "Play Now Live" feature. Sounds exactly what I want to play. No off-field fluff just legit rosters and stats to pick up and play a full season.

Im sure CFM fans arent excited about this but I am.lol
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:49 PM   #19
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Re: Madden 18 CFM Interview with Clint Oldenburg(Sports Gamers Online)

Clint is really matter-of-fact and it's refreshing.

What I'd really love from Live Seasons is for every game you're not involved in to get the result from real life if you pace yourself to match the season or start late. I.E. I wait until the playoffs to begin my CFM, every game that is CPU Simulated gets the real life results.

You'd have to address how injuries are going to work there, but I think it'd be cool.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:27 PM   #20
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Re: Madden 18 CFM Interview with Clint Oldenburg(Sports Gamers Online)

Just got around to watching this. Liked that he mentioned the Auto Sub sliders should be working better but he only talked about it from the user standpoint so I'm guessing it will still be the same for the CPU. Like that he talked about upgrading late game AI for the CPU but didn't like how the question about playbooks and play-calling turned into not seeing the same playbooks and plays in competitive. Having a bunch of new plays is great but if the AI is still restricted to 20 plays per situation and will only use ~40% of their playbook then they're still going to be hamstrung and largely incompetent.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:25 AM   #21
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Re: Madden 18 CFM Interview with Clint Oldenburg(Sports Gamers Online)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerboy
You must be kidding correct? I posted something similar in the comment section for the reference youtube vid on SGO. Clearly Oldenburg is confused and couldn't possibly be serious. The ps2 had 32MB of total system ram and 4MB of video ram. The PS4 has 8GB of system RAM of which 5-6GB can be used by developers. Based on my math this is 250x the memory. I'm curious, how many KB/MB do you suspect a helmet skin takes up? Is it more than MLB the show's fully modeled 3D crowd or they're fully responsive and modeled dugouts. Or how about NBA 2k fully modeled crowed and sideline w/ coaches and assistants responding in real time to events on the court. I hardly take Oldenburg as an authority as it relates to the technical side of development and this is an amateur hour type of blunder.
I know that a 512x512 texture takes up four times the memory of a 256x256 texture. I also know that to display a geometry with normal mapping (so that light reflects off it properly) requires an additional texture, which the PS2 didn't have to store because asking the PS2 to do normal mapping was a non-starter outside of maybe one or two very specific applications. I also know that displaying a game in 4K with high fidelity is going to require some pretty massive textures relative to what we're used to seeing get into a video game. Finally I know some texture dimensions required for custom teams in Madden 08 PC; the largest is the end zone art at 1024x256, helmets were 256x128 at minimum and I believe the game supported 512x256 as well. All these texture sizes have likely at least quadrupled over the past decade as the graphical expectations of consumers have increased with new hardware.

Oldenburg is a gameplay designer so he might not be the most up-and-up on the technical side of things, but I trust someone inside the building who actually knows about the day-to-day problems of building the video game over the opinion of some armchair quarterback on the internet telling him he's bad at his job. At the very worst he has his ear on the wall for high-level technical conversations with respect to how far along engineering is implementing systems he helps design.

Not sure why bringing up the crowd in other games is relevant as Madden renders a crowd which is at least partially 3D as well.

Quote:
You incorrectly state that games output @ 1080p. HDR is very new for videogames with not much support ATM and M17 certainly didn't get a patch for this.
1080P and HDR aren't the same thing. One refers to pixel density, the other refers to color space and lighting.

Consoles have been able to output at 1080P since at least the last console generation. Forza Motorsport 2 ran at 1080P native in 2007, for example. I'm reasonable sure Madden on XBOX 360 ran at either 720P or 900P and upscaled to 1080P. Madden 17 certainly runs at 1080P on current-gen hardware, and Tiburon claims that Frostbite will get Madden running in 4K @ 60FPS during gameplay on PS4 Pro / XBOX One X. FIFA 17 achieved that and I saw Madden 18 achieve that with my own eyes at EA PLAY last week, so that's not an unreasonable claim by any means.

You are correct that Madden 17 didn't support HDR; already-released PS4 Pro games required title updates to support that, and M17 never got one. However - and I could be wrong on this - I think HDR is handled by the GPU and it's basically doing some fancy ray-tracing with virtual light rays to produce a more accurate color, and that in-and-of itself doesn't require any more system RAM to achieve (it'd obviously required a better GPU, though). Point being it doesn't have any bearing either way on the issue of getting Pro Bowl helmets into memory.

Quote:
Madden doesn't have any particle effects
Incorrect, every time a player makes a hard cut on a field-turf surface there are particle effects spawned from the players cleats. So there's one. Super Bowl confetti would be another. I'm sure there are others, especially with pyrotechnics in player / team intros being a thing now thanks to Frostbite.

Quote:
Have you ever downloaded a high-res costume skin for a character in any game? Please check into that and report back how many KBs that skin takes.
I've never played a Battlefield game so I've never downloaded a high-resolution character skin, but I'm a seven-years-experienced client engineer for an independent video game studio so generally speaking I have an inkling as to how these things work.

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Old 06-19-2017, 12:52 AM   #22
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Re: Madden 18 CFM Interview with Clint Oldenburg(Sports Gamers Online)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
I know that a 512x512 texture takes up four times the memory of a 256x256 texture. I also know that to display a geometry with normal mapping (so that light reflects off it properly) requires an additional texture, which the PS2 didn't have to store because asking the PS2 to do normal mapping was a non-starter outside of maybe one or two very specific applications. I also know that displaying a game in 4K with high fidelity is going to require some pretty massive textures relative to what we're used to seeing get into a video game. Finally I know some texture dimensions required for custom teams in Madden 08 PC; the largest is the end zone art at 1024x256, helmets were 256x128 at minimum and I believe the game supported 512x256 as well. All these texture sizes have likely at least quadrupled over the past decade as the graphical expectations of consumers have increased with new hardware.

Oldenburg is a gameplay designer so he might not be the most up-and-up on the technical side of things, but I trust someone inside the building who actually knows about the day-to-day problems of building the video game over the opinion of some armchair quarterback on the internet telling him he's bad at his job. At the very worst he has his ear on the wall for high-level technical conversations with respect to how far along engineering is implementing systems he helps design.



1080P and HDR aren't the same thing. One refers to pixel density, the other refers to color space and lighting.

Consoles have been able to output at 1080P since at least the last console generation. Forza Motorsport 2 ran at 1080P native in 2007, for example. I'm reasonable sure Madden on XBOX 360 ran at either 720P or 900P and upscaled to 1080P. Madden 17 certainly runs at 1080P on current-gen hardware, and Tiburon claims that Frostbite will get Madden running in 4K @ 60FPS during gameplay on PS4 Pro / XBOX One X. FIFA 17 achieved that and I saw Madden 18 achieve that with my own eyes at EA PLAY last week, so that's not an unreasonable claim by any means.

You are correct that Madden 17 didn't support HDR; already-released PS4 Pro games required title updates to support that, and M17 never got one.



Incorrect, every time a player makes a hard cut on a field-turf surface there are particle effects spawned from the players cleats. So there's one. Super Bowl confetti would be another. I'm sure there are others, especially with pyrotechnics in player / team intros being a thing now thanks to Frostbite.



I've never played a Battlefield game so I've never downloaded a high-resolution character skin, but I'm a seven-years-experienced client engineer for an independent video game studio so generally speaking I have an inkling as to how these things work.

Well if you happen upon any DLC type skin or costume in any videogame on current gen, you'll find that these are miniscule downloads to say the least. Remember these games have capacity of 50GB on disk and virtually unlimited when downloaded. The Madden team uses <20GB of this capacity, therefore its not difficult to see how one would question any claims they make in regards to memory as they routinely leave 60% of disc space on the table.

I am particularly amused that you reference the pebbles kicking up from player's shoe's and superbowl confetti as examples of particle effects. I was more so thinking about explosions, dynamic light sequences etc.

Madden may run @ 1080p however this resolution has hardly been a standard for this gen. Mostly you'll find this achieved in racing games w/ static environments and other games that are not very resource intensive(IE Madden). Unfortunately alot of the more impressive titles run around 900p and are upscaled to 1080P(IE Battlefield series). I'm aware of what HDR is as I own an LG B6 Oled.

The fact that Tiburon routinely uses <40% of disc space for their entire game in no way adds to their credibility in regards to memory utilization. Additionally, lets not forget that Scorpio(aka Xbox one X) has 12GB of GDDR5 memory. Are you telling me that EA is unable load ~32 helmets/unis(actually only 22 at most and won't even be this number as we'd expect several players from same team) into a session with an additional 4GB of ram. Keep in mind that by my previous calculation, this is approaching 400x the memory of PS2. Not only that but several devs are able to stream assets directly from the disk. However, unfortunately for Tiburon, the assets actually have to be on the disc in order for them to be utilized...

Are you genuinely stating that you believe that the cause of this omission is related to memory?Oldendburg is wildly misinformed at best or blatantly lying(or gross incompetence) at worst. Either way, this is hardly a matter of memory.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:38 AM   #23
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Re: Madden 18 CFM Interview with Clint Oldenburg(Sports Gamers Online)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerboy
Are you genuinely stating that you believe that the cause of this omission is related to memory?Oldendburg is wildly misinformed at best or blatantly lying(or gross incompetence) at worst. Either way, this is hardly a matter of memory.
of lack
I certainly trust his opinion - informed by more importantly his continued employment at EA Tiburon and his working with people who possess the specific technical know-how as to why Madden can and can't do things, but also by my own knowledge having worked as a client-side engineer in 3D video games - over yours.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:34 AM   #24
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Re: Madden 18 CFM Interview with Clint Oldenburg(Sports Gamers Online)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerboy

Are you genuinely stating that you believe that the cause of this omission is related to memory?Oldendburg is wildly misinformed at best or blatantly lying(or gross incompetence) at worst. Either way, this is hardly a matter of memory.
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THIS is the exact type of comment that is really not productive. Its also probably against the rules here.
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