Shots Fired by 2k at "other sports games"

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Agree, we tried it once before and had it. There was too much resentment at the time and I am not sure if that has changed over the years. It would be nice to get to that stage, again, though.

We HAVE had it. YEARS of it. Plenty of guys, myself included, have gone through PAINSTAKING effort to provide the Madden development team with detailed blueprints on what needs to be in the game. Some guys I know went crazy, even creating laminated binders with as much detail as a design spec.

They don't listen. It's exactly the same as trying to tell an alcoholic that he ha a drinking problem. He refuses to accept it. Unless you have a youtube channel with 100k followers, they don't really care. They truly believe that Madden is some kind of artistic masterpiece. While it's not a complete piece of crap its a massive underachiever. Most people realize this, but they do their best to cope with it. Everyone loves football here, so they have to do whatever they can to "cover the wound", so to speak. They're entitled to make whatever game they want. Not having choices is what creates the rub. There are a lot more people than you might think who would prefer the more realistic experience. This "OS is the minority" nonsense is simply a cop out to make excuses so we can better deal with the situation. It's simply not true. If progress is going to be made, people just need to start being honest about it. That doesn't mean we start slinging mud or insulting developers or any crap like that. Progress can't be made until there is acknowledgement of the issues and people stop getting all in their feelings when someone brings up the problems.

If I go to the doctor and he diagnoses me with a terminal disease, telling myself over and over that I don't REALLY have a terminal disease might make me feel better in the short term, but it doesn't change the reality of it. At the end of the day, I still have it, so I might as well just deal with it.

The fact is that the other sports franchises simply embarrass Madden when it comes to their depth, options, flexibility and quality. These guys redo the same things every so often, can't get most of it right, then they move on to something else the following year because they think they did enough. The other franchises are building on top of something each year. Not to say they don't have issues because ALL games will have some issues. It's the overall vision and effort that you see being put forth. The Madden team will tell you that you should be happy with what you get, rather than feeling like they want to give you the best possible offering.

Take the injury system in Madden as an example. It's embarrassing. They added the ability to get hurt away from the ball - in 2017... Now it's a HUGE deal. Yet, nothing is even realistic. Guys are either 100% hurt or 100% healthy. There are no injury statuses that you can set or that even exist in the game. Only one body part can get injured. One of the biggest, most important elements of football is completely absent because they tell us that it isn't "fun". I also remembering them telling us when Madden 11 launched that online franchise wasn't "fun" either, so they didn't work on it. How did that end up? Online Leagues are huge now... Everything is Fisher Price and sold to us as this amazing innovation.

It is what it is, and as long as these sites keep reviewing Madden in a vacuum, they're going to continue to tell us that they've created a masterpiece. Don't expect any change in the foreseeable future.

[Fuimus Troes]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingd803

Nba2k fans demand so much more than madden fans do. They literally complain about neck sizes not being true to life. Butt sizes not being accurate. Shoe laces not being 100% right. That's why they have specific player stances and models. Example Kevin Durant with his hunchback look and everything single madden player runs the exact same. Two different standards.

You know, after I got over the massive disappointment of there being NO franchise improvements in Madden, what stood out to me most was that EVERYONE IN THE GAME LOOKS THE SAME and EVERYONE IN THE GAME MOVES THE SAME. There is a complete and utter lack of personality in the game. Period. Imagine if Madden did signature animations like 2k??? (I won't use the Show, because stances have to be WAAAY easier to program than actual physics-based animations.) I doubt that will ever happen.

Also, playing a few games reminded me how much I ABHOR having to spam the A button to skip all the useless cut scenes -- Madden could at least have added a streamlined presentation option like the show.

And the MENUS and LIGHTING -- only game to actually give me a headache. NHL is the same way too -- how the menus snap in and away with the blinding light and contrast -- seriously not good for the head or eyes.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

We HAVE had it. YEARS of it. Plenty of guys, myself included, have gone through PAINSTAKING effort to provide the Madden development team with detailed blueprints on what needs to be in the game. Some guys I know went crazy, even creating laminated binders with as much detail as a design spec. They don't listen. It's exactly the same as trying to tell an alcoholic that he ha a drinking problem. He refuses to accept it. Unless you have a youtube channel with 100k followers, they don't really care. They truly believe that Madden is some kind of artistic masterpiece. While it's not a complete piece of crap its a massive underachiever. Most people realize this, but they do their best to cope with it. Everyone loves football here, so they have to do whatever they can to "cover the wound", so to speak. They're entitled to make whatever game they want. Not having choices is what creates the rub. There are a lot more people than you might think who would prefer the more realistic experience. This "OS is the minority" nonsense is simply a cop out to make excuses so we can better deal with the situation. It's simply not true. If progress is going to be made, people just need to start being honest about it. That doesn't mean we start slinging mud or insulting developers or any crap like that. Progress can't be made until there is acknowledgement of the issues and people stop getting all in their feelings when someone brings up the problems. If I go to the doctor and he diagnoses me with a terminal disease, telling myself over and over that I don't REALLY have a terminal disease might make me feel better in the short term, but it doesn't change the reality of it. At the end of the day, I still have it, so I might as well just deal with it. The fact is that the other sports franchises simply embarrass Madden when it comes to their depth, options, flexibility and quality. These guys redo the same things every so often, can't get most of it right, then they move on to something else the following year because they think they did enough. The other franchises are building on top of something each year. Not to say they don't have issues because ALL games will have some issues. It's the overall vision and effort that you see being put forth. The Madden team will tell you that you should be happy with what you get, rather than feeling like they want to give you the best possible offering. Take the injury system in Madden as an example. It's embarrassing. They added the ability to get hurt away from the ball - in 2017... Now it's a HUGE deal. Yet, nothing is even realistic. Guys are either 100% hurt or 100% healthy. There are no injury statuses that you can set or that even exist in the game. Only one body part can get injured. One of the biggest, most important elements of football is completely absent because they tell us that it isn't "fun". I also remembering them telling us when Madden 11 launched that online franchise wasn't "fun" either, so they didn't work on it. How did that end up? Online Leagues are huge now... Everything is Fisher Price and sold to us as this amazing innovation. It is what it is, and as long as these sites keep reviewing Madden in a vacuum, they're going to continue to tell us that they've created a masterpiece. Don't expect any change in the foreseeable future.

I understand and appreciate that, but people tend to gloss over Ian's attempt at knocking out 80% of a wishlist back in the day.

After that was completed, we didn't have developers return anymore.

[jeremym480]

Quote: Originally Posted by coachcolbert

wow! this is interesting. i havent bought Madden since Madden25 on the PS4 release. i was tired of Madden being the same thing, so i stopped supporting the game. i came in the thread today because ive watched videos trying to decide if i want to buy Madden 18, and i find this thread here - wow! im sure many of you play 2k as well. this is the first year im NOT buying 2k (been playing since dreamcast ORIGINAL 2k) because i have the same complaints many of you here concerning Madden. 2k is GREAT before the business of gaming and the 2k community gets involved. 2k is today what Madden was in the 90s. everyone (or at least) most gamers know of and play 2k even if they dont watch basketball, mainly for the myplayer modes (park/proam). this has almost killed the sim aspect of the community (NOT the sim experience). this happened becuase 2k started listening to the casual players more so than the their core sim base. now i find i myself in a place where i was with Madden spending $$$ on a game that i felt didnt care what i (or folks like me) really wanted to see as long as i spent my money - they were good. im switching to live this year because though it is an inferior game (im guessing because i havent played 2k18) i enjoy it and theyve listened to a part of the basketball gaming community that has been ignored imo over the past few years. its interesting to see from the Madden communitys POV appreciating and praising the communication between the 2k community and devs, when a lot of us are frustrated by that very feeling of being ignored by 2k as well. you cant please everybody and at the end of the day its a business. just sucks that business will eventually suck the fun right out of gaming industry over time

I would agree with most of this post if we were talking about gameplay but we're talking about their respective franchise modes here so I don't agree that 2k caves to casuals for MyLeague.

Unfortunately, for both gameplay teams, the causal/YouTube crowd are usually the loudest and that's why we see the changes we do. It's happened in Madden with things like QB accuracy and there have been times where 2k has completely changed and even broken gameplay while trying to cater to casuals. 2K15 is the greatest example but it happened with 2K17 as well. At this point, if I like gameplay at release I'm considering taking my PS4 offline because I'm afraid they'll mess gameplay up again and I don't want to constantly be tinkering with my sliders.

And even with that said Mike Wang (Beluba) and Da_Czar are gameplay devs and they probably post on OS more than they MyLeague guys. They may not always win out even if they agree with what posters are saying here because they "suits" likely have the final say. However, at least we know they are hearing our feedback and are open to discussion.

[Toupal]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeremym480

I would agree with most of this post if we were talking about gameplay but we're talking about their respective franchise modes here so I don't agree that 2k caves to casuals for MyLeague. Unfortunately, for both gameplay teams, the causal/YouTube crowd are usually the loudest and that's why we see the changes we do. It's happened in Madden with things like QB accuracy and there have been times where 2k has completely changed and even broken gameplay while trying to cater to casuals. 2K15 is the greatest example but it happened with 2K17 as well. At this point, if I like gameplay at release I'm considering taking my PS4 offline because I'm afraid they'll mess gameplay up again and I don't want to constantly be tinkering with my sliders. And even with that said Mike Wang (Beluba) and Da_Czar are gameplay devs and they probably post on OS more than they MyLeague guys. They may not always win out even if they agree with what posters are saying here because they "suits" likely have the final say. However, at least we know they are hearing our feedback and are open to discussion.

2K has features that turns casual fans towards their franchise.

Madden doesn't have any great features to lure in a casual fan to Franchise.

[Toupal]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I understand and appreciate that, but people tend to gloss over Ian's attempt at knocking out 80% of a wishlist back in the day. After that was completed, we didn't have developers return anymore.

I have heard you say this before, Roadman. What Madden was this?

Additionally, how great would it be if Clint, Rex, and John all sat down and decided to hash out 80% of what we have requested today? Or even 75% of Deuces Thread?

Even if it wasn't perfect, I would be happy that they at least put in the effort.

But the worse thing they could have done is not touch it this season. The fact that they ignored franchise shows the lack of effort. And that is what angers me the most.

I will never complain if they add something I wont use into CFM, because that at least shows me they are putting in effort. But we aren't even seeing that anymore.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Toupal

I have heard you say this before, Roadman. What Madden was this? Additionally, how great would it be if Clint, Rex, and John all sat down and decided to hash out 80% of what we have requested today? Or even 75% of Deuces Thread? Even if it wasn't perfect, I would be happy that they at least put in the effort. But the worse thing they could have done is not touch it this season. The fact that they ignored franchise shows the lack of effort. And that is what angers me the most. I will never complain if they add something I wont use into CFM, because that at least shows me they are putting in effort. But we aren't even seeing that anymore.

It was before you signed up, Toupal.

Probably Madden 10 or thereabouts.

[Toupal]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

It was before you signed up, Toupal. Probably Madden 10 or thereabouts.

That is what I was thinking,because I remember them making a huge jump around then when they had to recover to the god awful jump to 360/PS3.