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Target Passing In SIM Mode

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View Poll Results: Should target passing in Sim Mode be tuned to take into account QB's accuracy att?
Yes 100 90.09%
No 11 9.91%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2017, 02:10 PM   #105
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Re: Target Passing In SIM Mode

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Originally Posted by Haze88
Do you feel this way about field goals too? Just wondering? It's still a video game after all. Some degree of user skill needs to exist otherwise we might as well just watch an NFL game.
Yes, I do. I don't think a kicker with 60 kick accuracy should be too successful from farther out or with higher winds. I don't think a kicker with 60 kick power should be attempting 50 yard field goals.

I feel the the player ratings should govern the ceiling of what is possible with that player.

I see the user skill as a way to represent the mental aspect of the game.

"Flubbing" a kick from ten yards out(something that happens to real kickers) is something the user has control over but isn't necessarily dictated by the player ratings.

Throwing in to triple coverage is something the user would do but isn't dictated by ratings.

Biting on play action and let your man get open is another example of where the user would come in.

I wouldn't consider it sim if a kicker has a 60 kick power and hits a 60 yard field goal just because the user hit the "magic" spot in the kick meter.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:31 PM   #106
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Re: Target Passing In SIM Mode

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Originally Posted by deiied
Yes, I do. I don't think a kicker with 60 kick accuracy should be too successful from farther out or with higher winds. I don't think a kicker with 60 kick power should be attempting 50 yard field goals.

I feel the the player ratings should govern the ceiling of what is possible with that player.

I see the user skill as a way to represent the mental aspect of the game.

"Flubbing" a kick from ten yards out(something that happens to real kickers) is something the user has control over but isn't necessarily dictated by the player ratings.

Throwing in to triple coverage is something the user would do but isn't dictated by ratings.

Biting on play action and let your man get open is another example of where the user would come in.

I wouldn't consider it sim if a kicker has a 60 kick power and hits a 60 yard field goal just because the user hit the "magic" spot in the kick meter.
So ideally you would have kicking work the same way passing does? Kick power matters but accuracy doesn't. Give me a KAC 99 and 50 guy and as of now I'm probably connecting equally with both. As much as I want a simulation I also want user skill to be respected most. Granted I have no idea how to balance it but I wouldn't go the route of taking control away from the user. It pisses me off enough the times where the game will throw directly at defenders even if I rationalize it with my QB is terrible. I stand by TCP being sim only if the pass rush is solid because then the effects of pressure matter. no more getting hit but the ball is still pinpoint. Having to aim and throw with sufficient pressure means it will almost never be gamebreaking because you simply wouldn't have the time to get it where you want it. you will get it maybe in the general spot but it will not always be a completion
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:48 PM   #107
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Re: Target Passing In SIM Mode

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So ideally you would have kicking work the same way passing does? Kick power matters but accuracy doesn't. Give me a KAC 99 and 50 guy and as of now I'm probably connecting equally with both. As much as I want a simulation I also want user skill to be respected most. Granted I have no idea how to balance it but I wouldn't go the route of taking control away from the user. It pisses me off enough the times where the game will throw directly at defenders even if I rationalize it with my QB is terrible. I stand by TCP being sim only if the pass rush is solid because then the effects of pressure matter. no more getting hit but the ball is still pinpoint. Having to aim and throw with sufficient pressure means it will almost never be gamebreaking because you simply wouldn't have the time to get it where you want it. you will get it maybe in the general spot but it will not always be a completion
Ideally both would matter. The higher the power, the slower the kick meter. The higher the accuracy, the straighter the kick, with less drift.

I'm not advocating taking away control from the user, I feel that the user shouldn't be able to outplay the ratings.

Difficulty of target passing does not even factor in for me. It could be the easiest or toughest mechanic in the game but QB accuracy should play into the outcome of it isn't sim.
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:32 PM   #108
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Re: Target Passing In SIM Mode

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Ideally both would matter. The higher the power, the slower the kick meter. The higher the accuracy, the straighter the kick, with less drift.

I'm not advocating taking away control from the user, I feel that the user shouldn't be able to outplay the ratings.

Difficulty of target passing does not even factor in for me. It could be the easiest or toughest mechanic in the game but QB accuracy should play into the outcome of it isn't sim.
I see where you are coming from, how would you use accuracy in target passing? My 2 thoughts were either a bigger circle or faster movement the more inaccurate the QB but I see it as a plus after years of not being able to throw with anticipation with passing being tied to the current path of a wideout or not being able to put fades either back-shoulder or to the corner
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:22 AM   #109
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Re: Target Passing In SIM Mode

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Originally Posted by Haze88
I see where you are coming from, how would you use accuracy in target passing? My 2 thoughts were either a bigger circle or faster movement the more inaccurate the QB but I see it as a plus after years of not being able to throw with anticipation with passing being tied to the current path of a wideout or not being able to put fades either back-shoulder or to the corner
My first thought would be that the sensitivity of the left stick would be tied to accuracy. Example: Moving the reticle with low accuracy, the stick would move the reticle half way across the field with one "press"; moving the reticle with high accuracy and it would move it a yard or two with the "press" of the stick.

My second thought would be that the reticle would be oscillating relative to the target to make it difficult to pinpoint the exact location. High QB Acc and the reticle would not move around at all and would represent where the ball is going to land approximately. Low QB Acc and the reticle would be moving randomly within a radius of the target area. Sort of like the dart game from GTA 4/5, where the reticle is moving around the target area and you can attempt to throw when the reticle matches the target area.

These two options would be harder based on QB skill but it would still be possible to control where the pass was going if you did it perfectly.

The larger circle would be another option but I think that it takes too much away from the user. A large circle where you don't know where the ball is going to land is going to be very risky.
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:25 PM   #110
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Re: Target Passing In SIM Mode

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My first thought would be that the sensitivity of the left stick would be tied to accuracy. Example: Moving the reticle with low accuracy, the stick would move the reticle half way across the field with one "press"; moving the reticle with high accuracy and it would move it a yard or two with the "press" of the stick.

My second thought would be that the reticle would be oscillating relative to the target to make it difficult to pinpoint the exact location. High QB Acc and the reticle would not move around at all and would represent where the ball is going to land approximately. Low QB Acc and the reticle would be moving randomly within a radius of the target area. Sort of like the dart game from GTA 4/5, where the reticle is moving around the target area and you can attempt to throw when the reticle matches the target area.

These two options would be harder based on QB skill but it would still be possible to control where the pass was going if you did it perfectly.

The larger circle would be another option but I think that it takes too much away from the user. A large circle where you don't know where the ball is going to land is going to be very risky.
So turns out we agree on this mostly. I think the negative now is you cant move meaning a solid pocket could make this ridiculously easy if you have a solid o-line, although lines are very important to a QB's success, so it should be on the right stick which would mimic the difficulty of moving and being accurate as the target moves with you making aiming much harder even if not yet tied to accuracy
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:27 PM   #111
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Re: Target Passing In SIM Mode

Which controller is better for target passing ps4 or xbox
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:40 PM   #112
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Re: Target Passing In SIM Mode

Yes, absolutely attributes should matter a lot in sim mode, more so than any other mode with everything the player does.

ultimately target passing is just another way to do something in the game, and if ratings/attributes are supposed to affect how an NFL player does something in the game, then it should also include target passing.

For instance, consider if there was a "Target Juking" control, would anybody really want Lagarette Blount to start making cuts and jukes like Dion Lewis, just because the user used the 'Target Juking' mechanic? No. If the user tries to do a fancy juke with Blount, it's likely not to work, and likewise, if the user uses Target Passing with Christian Hackenberg, the QB shouldn't be throwing pinpoint accurate throws.

In sim mode, I don't think that you need visual cues for this... You just need the outcome of the play. Like, if you use the L2/LT + juke stick, you don't see any visual cue, indicator, or highlight that Lagarrette Blount is going to make an ineffective juke. He just does it. In sim mode, the balance between user input and ratings skews closer to ratings, compared relatively to Arcade or Competitive (where user input matters most). The user's input should be the same, the reticule speed shouldn't change, but the result of the play should just be off more often than it is on, when throwing with a bad QB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgiordano
Which controller is better for target passing ps4 or xbox
They're not any different. Just comes down to preference maybe, if you prefer the stick placement of the Xbox or the Playstation, or you prefer the tension of the triggers on one controller versus the other. The controllers are mostly identical these days for actual inputs, especially for a game like Madden (as opposed to a fighting game or something).

Last edited by Rebel10; 08-21-2017 at 01:45 PM.
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