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Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Old 09-28-2009, 04:41 AM   #9
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by RMoody
Weapons system changed nothing, same exact players and ratings, just little icons under them to point them out. Its not about wanting to see a difference in players, its about gameplay changes.

The whole numerical ratings system is off. First off, one person doing it doesn't exactly scream parody. Some NFL players have and had a skill set not found in 1-100 ratings, sorry.

Prefect example is Barry Sanders. How do you rate the guy in a 1-100 attribute wise. He simply did things that no other back could, does that mean he becomes the standard in elusive backs? What he had was more than just a set of numbers, it was a skill set only he has.

Still if you tried to rate him do you give him 100 in Accel / Agility / Vision / Awareness and then hold ever back to a lesser standard? What if you thought Gale Sayers was a better back, what now?

APF made you give players specific abilities that separated them from each other, it was alot more than just numbers swapping around. Take a quick run with Natron Means and then switch to Eric Bieniemy, two bronze guys with totally different feels.

Run some pass plays with Jerry Rice and compare him to Steve Tasker. Rice will play better but not just because he is faster, he is quicker in and out of cuts runs cleaner routes and makes adjustments on the ball. You wont see him making the special teams plays that many say should get Steve Tasker in the HOF though.

Want some modern day examples of "clutch" (which is found in APF) that you never seen in Madden. Ray Lewis blows up an inside run to seal a game last week. Brett Favre makes a last ditch Hail Mary look like a play he drew up with no way of failing. Those two guys have been doing it for years, but not in every single game.
Let me ask this: How would 2k8's system work in a multi-year franchise?

Their system works because it was made specifically to replicate 240 (mostly)well known players. How well would it work on guys that we don't know that much about yet? How do you deal with player progression and new draft classes?
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:51 AM   #10
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by RaiderKtulu
Let me ask this: How would 2k8's system work in a multi-year franchise?

Their system works because it was made specifically to replicate 240 (mostly)well known players. How well would it work on guys that we don't know that much about yet? How do you deal with player progression and new draft classes?
Its a one year "all or nothing franchise". In all honesty, the game was built for online play. You build your team, I build mine and we play.

Madden has caused alot of players to lose trust in online gameplay. Most people either play only people they know or run the risk of dealing with cheese. Its sad that game issues cant be held in check enough for people to confidently play random opponents.

In franchise IR doesnt work properly, players turn down contracts with you only to sign for 1/3rd the amount to another CPU team.

The list of "Madden house rules" I most commonly see around here are , only use the "Ask Madden" play. Run out of bounds right after an INT. No passes to the flats. If I have to self govern my gameplay to make up for what the game lacks, then I might aswell not even bother.

Im not saying 2k8 doesnt have its set of issues, the game is very stripped down. Im not saying people dont cheese either. However the issues it has are far fewer and less game impacting than M10.

2k8 has a very good rating system which allows you to quickly assess the person challenging you and if you feel they play fair or not.

Last edited by RyanMoody21; 09-28-2009 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:22 AM   #11
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by RMoody
Its a one year "all or nothing franchise". In all honesty, the game was built for online play. You build your team, I build mine and we play.
Ok, but what if a person can't play online? APF really needs some decent form of single-player other than the quick play mode (Season mode was terrible, I could never finish more than 2-3 games of a season)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMoody
Madden has caused alot of players to lose trust in online gameplay. Most people either play only people they know or run the risk of dealing with cheese. Its sad that game issues cant be held in check enough for people to confidently play random opponents.
The exact same thing happens in APF online. There are guys who either use CAPs who are cheese or use legends that are known to be overpowered and exploit verious holes in the AI. It's not fair to criticize Madden for something that APF has the exact same problem with.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:41 AM   #12
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

2k's AI and animations are better because they do not put the CPU resources into the graphics as much as Madden. So to get that type of gameplay and interaction, EA would need to redesign the look of their game. Personally, I would prefer less detailed graphics that still look good due to creativity in the graphics department.

There are still limits to what can be done. I am just repeating what Ian has said about the Madden graphics. He has been clear that the level of detail put into the graphics affects other things, which makes compelete sense.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:49 AM   #13
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by Dianwei32
The exact same thing happens in APF online. There are guys who either use CAPs who are cheese or use legends that are known to be overpowered and exploit verious holes in the AI. It's not fair to criticize Madden for something that APF has the exact same problem with.
So wait, your saying the game is exploited with certain players? By all means, please tell me who they are. What do you mean when you say Caps that are cheese?

If you could cheese in the game using certain guys it would be common knowledge to the point everybody uses the same super players wanting the same unfair advantage. After all the game has been out 4 years.

I have played over 300 online games against 125 or so unique players and generally no "team" sticks out in my memory as being a carbon copy on another.

As far as cheese on custom players, unless you have unlocked every game achievement you have a pretty strict limit on player abilities. Once you unlocked all 50 achievements you can create a gold player with 5 skills, before that your limited to 3 for gold, 2 for silver and 1 for bronze. Very few (if any) computer created players have less than that. Much like before, if some unbeatable combination of skills was around I would expect it to be common knowledge.

Based on your self admitted lack of time with the game, I have a hard time thinking you know things others dont. Especially when it comes down to creating unbeatable teams or cheese players.

Last edited by RyanMoody21; 09-28-2009 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:52 AM   #14
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by Echopax
Not bashing either game, franchise, or company.

Just going to express something that's been on my mind.

Alright, first off, every game of Madden feels the exact same. It doesn't matter who the CPU QB is. Whether it's Peyton Manning, Jay Cutler, Dree Brees, or Jarmacus Russell. All of them play the exact same.

Now, let's look at APF2K8. A gold QB can and will light the hell out of you unless you make adjustments, where as a bronze or non-tiered QB will dink and dunk and have a hard time burning you.

The same goes with defense. This is my huge beef with Madden. In APF2K8, I dare you to throw in the vicinity of Charles Woodson or a gold corner. They can totally take your receiver out of the game. That is, you can't sneak any money plays on them. Slant? Nope, they'll jump it and pick it. Over the top? They'll stay step for step with your WR and bat it down. Screen? You'll get rocked.

In Madden, I can spam the same play, game in and game in, pre-patch or post patch, year in and year out, and go 16-0. I can't do that in APF2K8. Why? Their AI is marginally better. Madden needs a system like APF2k8, it's as simple as that. If EA stays on the same track, it just goes to show you how arrogant they are.
I disagree with your findings/opinion.

Playing as the Raiders I can tell a distinct difference between JaMarcus Russell and Jeff Garcia. Russell is erratic as all get out. His throws are all too often offline, and require receiver adjustment for a completed pass. Also, Russell's arm strength is noticably better than Garcia's, whereas Garcia's accuaracy is noticably better than Russell's.

Also, in regards to corners, Asomugha I can leave on an island and let him cover the oppositions best receiver one on one. After the patch he jumps slants and outs better and he is a dangerous corner to try and beat one on one deep. As for the rest of my secondary/corners, I can't do that. Sure there are some receivers that Chris Johnson may be able to shut down one on one a majority of the time, but even that is a gamble that I rarely take.

Same for D-Line and Linebackers. Morrison is the Raiders best LB, and it shows during the games. I can tell a difference between him and the rest of the group. Seymour is better than Terrell Sands and so on and so forth.

IMO, the ratings do separate the players of various talent and showcase their strengths and weaknesses well.
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Last edited by countryboy; 09-28-2009 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:59 AM   #15
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by countryboy
I disagree with your findings/opinion.

Playing as the Raiders I can tell a distinct difference between JaMarcus Russell and Jeff Garcia. Russell is erratic as all get out. His throws are all too often offline, and require receiver adjustment for a completed pass. Also, Russell's arm strength is noticably better than Garcia's, whereas Garcia's accuaracy is noticably better than Russell's.

Also, in regards to corners, Asomugha I can leave on an island and let him cover the oppositions best receiver one on one. After the patch he jumps slants and outs better and he is a dangerous corner to try and beat one on one deep. As for the rest of my secondary/corners, I can't do that. Sure there are some receivers that Chris Johnson may be able to shut down one on one a majority of the time, but even that is a gamble that I rarely take.
Did you read his last paragraph? He's not exactly the type of player we need to worry about anyway.

Quote:
In Madden, I can spam the same play, game in and game in, pre-patch or post patch, year in and year out, and go 16-0
Translated: Madden doesn't stop my cheese tactics, so it's a horrible broken game.

Yeah, sure you can throw it to the HB in the flat every play and win... but it's a really dumb way to play and isn't fun anyway. Prior to someone else posting about doing that, I wouldn't have known that it was like that. Why? BECAUSE I DON'T PLAY LIKE AN IDIOT.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:11 AM   #16
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Re: Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

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Originally Posted by KBLover
I greatly disagree.

My Ravens franchise and my Raiders franchise and my fantasy Bucs franchise all feel very different in the passing game.

Completing passes with Russell is a nightmare (as is Josh Freeman...), while using Sanchez is more reliable if I call a west coast style game, while Flacco is streaky. Pat White let's me fear the blitz less...though when I escape and throw the ball - pray.

On defense - I feel the difference between fast and slow LBs. I feel the difference between the 3-4 and 4-3 (I hate the 4-3). I feel the difference between having a good D-Line and one that's pretty darn average.




Wow - sounds like the DBs are too good! Even the best DBs in real life give up completions and occassional big plays. This sounds like they stop anything and everything that comes their way.




Heck, I can't go 16-0 in Madden. I guess I suck or have made my sliders too hard for me *shrug* I'm currently 1-2 with my Raiders franchise, 4-2 with my Ravens franchise, and 2-1 with my fantasy Bucs franchise.
lmao the thought process of the fanboy truely is a sight to behold
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