OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

[SaluteYourShorts21]

I'm loving these analytics!

[OSfan093]

Quote: Originally Posted by BegBy

I agree with Jason in that the entire way speed is determined should be redone. Tim Lincecum is a perfect example this year. I haven't seen him throw over 92 more than 2 times and to be honest he's only hit 92 once or twice a game this season. He's throwing his stuff at pretty much an even 90, and I've even seen several at 89. In game, it's really hard to replicate. When I get him pitching 90, by middle innings I often see low fastballs drop to 86 and I've seen high fastballs hit 93 a couple times in a row. There are just certain numbers that I find difficult to actually average without large discrepancies. Not a deal breaker by any stretch, but a more refined system for how we execute pitch speed on the mound, and how the parameters of a pitch's speed while creating or editing would be a welcome change. I'm just taking a short lunch here and thought I'd see how this thread is doing. More people need to be excited for these edits. They change the game entirely and in a very good way.

This is where Relievers worry me. Are you going to have a different formula for determining relievers velocities? Reason is that if you have a starter that averages 93 and you input his velocity rating in the game to 93, then over the course of the season he'll average roughly 93. BUT if you put a reliever at 93, he'd average like 96 all season because he won't tire throughout the game due to the fact he's only pitching one inning. And i'm pretty sure that you can't really count on his stamina decreasing enough over the season to bring that down, because relievers are usually close to, if not, full stamina when they pitch. Even if you lower the relievers stamina in the sliders i still don't think that would affect it enough would it? and really if you look IRL the relievers are probably not going to pitch 89 in any games if they average 93, they'll probably throw 91-95 on any given occasion. mostly 92-94 though.

So what i'm saying is that if you make a reliever who averages 93 and make his rating reflect that in game(i.e. 93 mph on the velocity section of the rating screen) he will average much more than that. Or am i just completely wrong?

[OSfan093]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Just noticed these two posts, and yes I am planning to tweak minor leaguers as well. Here's Dylan Bundy (unedited) as an example: Slider 84 mph, 63 break ---> 9.15 inches I averaged all of the break ratings for an 84 mph slider in my chart and got 33.3, which would be about 4.84 inches I could handle this a couple ways - 1. Universally drop mid 80's sliders by 30 points 2. Cut the ratings in half For high 80's sliders (there aren't many), drop by 40 points or cut the ratings by 2/3rds Cutters are more complicated, movement is all over the map. Probably can just leave it as is, I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary yet, but if anyone wants to look over the minors more intensively, it wouldn't hurt.

I think that is a flawed system because you are assuming that this particular guy has an average mlb slider movement(of all of the 84mph sliders). Because lets say you took another guy who has a nasty slider that is 84mph with 84 movement. If you subtracted that from the 33.3 average movement then you'd be lowering sliders by 50(or whatever percentage that would turn into almost divided by 3) which is definately not right. And lets say you cut all of them in half. The best possible slider for any minor leaguer at 84mph would be 50 movement, but there are definately guys in your pitch edits that have 84mph or more but over 50 movement. I think maybe you need to sort of find a perfect number to multiply all movement ratings by. maybe more like .75 as opposed to .5 to allow for higher movement ratings..... i mean i'm not really sure what that number would be though.

Either way all this work is VERY MUCH appreciated. Also will you be editing all minor leaguers in the game(their sliders that is)? and also i've been wondering, this all started because 0 movement does not truly produce no movement. So in theory shouldn't all pitch movements be off, not just sliders? Especially curveballs i'd imagine...

[OSfan093]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Measured the break on my TV with a ruler, measured the plate, then compared Seriously though, if you aim Bundy's slider down the middle in-game it ends up off of the outside corner, home plate is 17 inches wide, my movement formulas have 9.15 inches of movement for a slider equal to a 63 rating in-game.

the more i hear about these edits, the more i'm loving it....did you use this method of measurement for other pitch movements(curveballs, changeups, etc)?

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by OSfan093

the more i hear about these edits, the more i'm loving it....did you use this method of measurement for other pitch movements(curveballs, changeups, etc)?

Pretty much, yeah. I tested each pitch with maximum movement, SCEA does a good job with the maximums, their biggest thing is the classifications.

I looked over my sheet, the fastest slider I found with 50+ movement was Jake Arrieta's at 86.71 (53), Here are all of the sliders with 80+ movement and their velocities:

Sergio Romo - 79.62 (93)
Daniel Bard - 84.44 (97)
Joe Smith - 81.93 (85)
Joe Thatcher - 77.66 (84)
Louis Coleman - 79.02 (82)
Shawn Camp - 79.95 (87)
Mike Adams - 80.66 (94)
Bryan Shaw - 81.74 (86)

Pretty short list, all of them are 77-82 except for Bard, but for 2012 his slider is averaging ~81 mph with similar movement. Take away these and the average movement for sliders becomes less than 4.8 inches.

I don't mind leaving high 70's low 80's sliders the same, its the mid 80's sliders that need to be toned down.

Edit:

OK here are the guys with 60+ movement and 84 mph+ sliders:

Juan Cruz - 84.52 (66)
Daniel Bard - 84.44 (97)

Change Bard to his 2012 repertoire and you have one guy out of 652 major league pitchers

I tallied up the guys with 50+ movement and 84mph+ sliders and there were 14 guys, the Orioles minors alone have 4 guys with 60+ movement and 84mph+ sliders.

[BegBy]

One thing I should've mentioned in my previous posts is that I play on all star pitching/hitting with pitch speed at full. Yes, I know, full is fast, but trust me guys...it takes some time, but it really makes you hit better. You no longer see these beach ball hangers. You have to make up your mind quick, and combined with these edits, especially sliders and cutters, they snap on you fast. I am averaging 6-7 K's a game both pitching and batting. With some aces I can k 10 or so guys, but every game is different. As far as batting...I like getting rung up. It's realistic. When I'm hitting a guy who averages 89 MPH fastballs with decent movement and a nice 85 MPH slider with 20+ break, it keeps me honest. Then another comes in and drops a 95 MPH fastball and a big hook, for me it really changes my outlook on hitting. I suggest everyone everyone at least try vet hitting with full pitch speed and these edits. I guarantee you won't be banging beach balls around the park.

Had a long day, so I'll add some pitchers/teams I think really need some attention tomorrow.

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by BegBy

One thing I should've mentioned in my previous posts is that I play on all star pitching/hitting with pitch speed at full. Yes, I know, full is fast, but trust me guys...it takes some time, but it really makes you hit better. You no longer see these beach ball hangers. You have to make up your mind quick, and combined with these edits, especially sliders and cutters, they snap on you fast. I am averaging 6-7 K's a game both pitching and batting. With some aces I can k 10 or so guys, but every game is different. As far as batting...I like getting rung up. It's realistic. When I'm hitting a guy who averages 89 MPH fastballs with decent movement and a nice 85 MPH slider with 20+ break, it keeps me honest. Then another comes in and drops a 95 MPH fastball and a big hook, for me it really changes my outlook on hitting. I suggest everyone everyone at least try vet hitting with full pitch speed and these edits. I guarantee you won't be banging beach balls around the park. Had a long day, so I'll add some pitchers/teams I think really need some attention tomorrow.

How's max on all-star, does it feel true to life? I play Legend pitching/ HOF hitting with pitch speed on 8 and absolutely love it, helps me get ready for summer ball lol.

[yyhy]

I was so glad when I saw that article criticizing The Show's realism for pitchers, because it's an area that needed more attention. The minor league project Knight and this community take on is a game changing edit that I don't think I could enjoy playing the game without. These edits make just as much of a difference. It's two massive editing projects being conducted by different teams on the same site. People who have probably been playing baseball games, and video games in general for decades. Baseball fans. Nerdy number crunchers. It's awesome lol Thank all of you who have the time, or make the time to do what a lot of us wish we had the time to do. I just read through the first 2 pages of you guys talking about game mechanics, real life Vs. gameplay and how it relates to real baseball. It's great lol So glad to see this getting done, and I think you're all being really smart about the way you're going about it.