Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

[JPASbasketball]

Hey OS,

Thought you guys might be interested in this detailed analysis I did on how the shot meter could be reworked to be a great tool for sim gameplay. If implemented well, it could be a great way to capture the intangible rhythm/confidence aspect of shooting by proxy of the user. I think this would make shooting more engaging, immersive, and most of all, realistic.

Would love to hear what you guys think, and hopefully spark a productive discussion on the topic.

https://youtu.be/0KUEzlHiHSY

[jk31]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

Could you share your essential thoughts with us by giving some keynotes? I don't like watching videos when I'm visiting a forum, I wanna read stuff!

[Diceman7]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

Hey OS,

Thought you guys might be interested in this detailed analysis I did on how the shot meter could be reworked to be a great tool for sim gameplay. If implemented well, it could be a great way to capture the intangible rhythm/confidence aspect of shooting by proxy of the user. I think this would make shooting more engaging, immersive, and most of all, realistic.

Would love to hear what you guys think, and hopefully spark a productive discussion on the topic.

https://youtu.be/0KUEzlHiHSY

You are correct in making the mildly contested shot's user dependant. We all know it is "scripted" when they do go in. They tried it with the stick aim, but it was botched by Beluba. I really don't know...they've gone backwards as far as the player movement and it looks a lot like 15 in the way games play out. This topic is null until they balance player movements on defense. Basically online you can just move back and forth repeatedly and dive into the paint. It's boring and repetitive. 16 actually required you manipulating the defense to get "open" by running a play/screen. Does it match real life? No probably not. But it played as a game much better and made sense. I have absolutely no faith in 2k to implement what you are describing.

[JPASbasketball]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

Could you share your essential thoughts with us by giving some keynotes? I don't like watching videos when I'm visiting a forum, I wanna read stuff!

sure, no prob.

The idea is centered around only making greens attainable when a player is hot or on fire in hopes of striking a balance between the patch 4 shooting of 2k15 where nothing ever missed, and the current state of shooting in the game where even late closeouts affect shot quality drastically.

Here is a spreadsheet diving into the stats, and how 2k's contested percentages compare to the real NBA: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...h4Q8q4-DCYLo7c

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[shayellis]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

Good video. I really am fond of green releases not being guaranteed makes or if it is a guaranteed make, make them only available for people heating up or on fire.

[Tengo Juego]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

I often wonder if we're way past the point of just scrapping the mechanic entirely, and returning to just timing our releases by animation. I feel the same way about badges. Just let the numbers do their job and make the rest of it go away. It all just seems so much to tune and balance.

[jeebs9]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

Damn this was really welled done. I didn't finish it yet. But I can see where your going.

[ViolenceFight]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

I often wonder if we're way past the point of just scrapping the mechanic entirely, and returning to just timing our releases by animation. I feel the same way about badges. Just let the numbers do their job and make the rest of it go away. It all just seems so much to tune and balance.

I'd be fine with scrapping most of the badges. Or atleast the redundant ones. We don't need 2 dead eyes. I'm fine with the older system of being able to pick 5 perks. Or, reserve certain ones for certain players.

As far as the meter...they can't get rid of it now unless it's a slow fade. Mike even regrets creating it, or atleast the idea of the perfect release. I think making greens only available when hot is the way to go.

If you get guys used to the idea of no guarantees unless you're hot, it makes it easier to scrap the green concept all together.

Shooting is a skill, but more of it is getting open/creating the open look than it is actually shooting the ball.

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[jeebs9]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

I'd be fine with scrapping most of the badges. Or atleast the redundant ones. We don't need 2 dead eyes. I'm fine with the older system of being able to pick 5 perks. Or, reserve certain ones for certain players.

As far as the meter...they can't get rid of it now unless it's a slow fade. Mike even regrets creating it, or atleast the idea of the perfect release. I think making greens only available when hot is the way to go.

If you get guys used to the idea of no guarantees unless you're hot, it makes it easier to scrap the green concept all together.

Shooting is a skill, but more of it is getting open/creating the open look than it is actually shooting the ball.

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I know people don't like the badges. But I like them. They give the players huge amounts of depth. For instances, Clutch Performer: "Steps his game up in big games and big moments." A player like MJ obviously should have it. But a player like Robert Horry needs it. Also having 2 dead eyes open it from being abused on the outside. A player like (prime) Paul Pierce was dangerous from the pull up/step back mid range (especially contested). He needs the dead eye for mid range. But not from 3 point range. I can show you many more examples. I do worry about badges like Championship DNA that shows when doubles are coming. I don't know fair that is. But I kind of like the badge for the top players.

Totally agree that green should be for Hot players. I and I know many others here hate the shot meter and the perfect release. That's why I've removed for myself. Because I feel as though shooting has become focused on the meter then the actually shot for players. Players go through the thought process Get my player open - try to get a perfect release. It should be about the bold above.

And finally, knowing a shot is going in totally sucks!!! Hitting a game winner with the knowledge that a shot is going in totally blows.

[ViolenceFight]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

I agree. I like the badges, but some need over hauls, and some need to be re-evaluated for myplayers. But they need to exist. Like, Curry needs limitless range, and Chuck Person could have btonze, but that's it. I'm pretty sure Porzingas has it....Why? He's cashed 1 three from the Hash Mark. Curry takes it like a damn pull up. So it makes sense.

Like, Prime Griffin and Shawn Kemp should has Gold posterizer, where as someone like Wade should have Bronze. And so forth.

And yeah, Shooting should be about shot context, not a timing mini game.



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[jeebs9]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

I agree. I like the badges, but some need over hauls, and some need to be re-evaluated for myplayers. But they need to exist. Like, Curry needs limitless range, and Chuck Person could have btonze, but that's it. I'm pretty sure Porzingas has it....Why? He's cashed 1 three from the Hash Mark. Curry takes it like a damn pull up. So it makes sense.

Like, Prime Griffin and Shawn Kemp should has Gold posterizer, where as someone like Wade should have Bronze. And so forth.

And yeah, Shooting should be about shot context, not a timing mini game.

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Does KP actually have limitless range or your just using him as an example? Because of the other things that give depth to the badges is the little tier system they have. For example, Curry has limitless range badge hall 0f fame level. But a player like LeBron who has hit them but is no way near Curry has a bronze badge. I have no clue what each badge actually does.But I'm guess it's a success Percent increase for the situation.

But I think it should be timing time. But like a the real shooting% option. I'd love to try it.

[infemous]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

I think that if they go forward with shot meter, the "green" area for makes needs to shrink and expand depending on player ratings, defense, shot type and hot or cold zones.

And kind of like MLB The Show's pitching meter, closer you are to the hot spot, the better chances for a make, and its up to you to time the show correct.

So like if you have a WIDE open shot, like defender fell down and have major time to set your feet, in a hot spot, "green make area"would be huge. Not automatic, still have to time it right. Same shot but late close out, green mke area would be like 25% smaller, harder contests would be a sliver of green...but if you can time it out...money. BUT, if its a cold spot and defense...meter should just go RED. No way the shot is going to go in...you made a bad decision and are punished for it.

Also think that degree of shot miss, determined by the meter, could factor into off rebounds as well. Like if a player takes a horrible shot, red meter, it should be an almost automatic def reb...as long as they are defenders in the area. No more rewarding awful decisions with cheap off rebounds. Might not be 100% realistic...but this will reward smart players and dismantle bad ones.

agreed with this up until the rebound part.

rebounding should be about positioning and then ratings, with jumping and hands being important, and boxing out rating playing out.

not too keen on having a rebounding rating, unless its for cpu only to determine how good they are at positioning for a rebound.

[Juve]

Re: Detailed Analysis: How to Make the Shot Meter Sim

Sorry if this has already been addressed but do badges actually add to a player's abilities, or do their specific abilities give them that particular badge? Or is it a little bit of both, depending on the badge?

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