Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

[Kushmir]

We all do it.

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You know the routine: We're in the paint and we get the attention of a few defenders, then one of our guys slips in behind them....we pass to them. EASY BUCKET. Sometimes its even Big-to-Big, which is really bad. Maybe its the fact that the pass is too quick for their reactions, maybe their Pass Perception is low, but what I do know is that passing the ball into the highest FG% area on the court has to be harder. Impossible? No...but we should be surprised when the ball gets through without being deflected out of bounds.

Speaking of, that's what SHOULD happen in the vast majority of instances we pass directly into the paint, STEALS should happen, but infrequently (they're overdone) we need many more deflections out of bounds:

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But certainly not the ever-so-popular deflection-back-to-the-offense we see here.

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This bobble-in-the-paint/physical play helps a little but its not enough. We need multiple outcomes that prevent passing directly into the paint unless its a postup, PNR or "open" backdoor play.

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Reward the defense for being in good position. Gameplay has to punish the offense when they're careless. Deflections out of bounds do just that by forcing them to operate late in the shot clock. Defense is in a solid place right now but many of the improvements we need already exist in gameplay. The outcomes are just skewed in the wrong direction. The offense recovering blocks and deflections needs to be rare.

Paint-to Paint passing had a good run but its time for gameplay to progress and put another legacy issue on the bad gameplay scrap heap.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

Good post Kush.

I feel this down about 30%-40% from previous years....much, much more defections...

Defesive awareness of paint passing period has seen a big step forward IMO.

https://youtu.be/9j_oJSkyZLY

I say about half of these are completed in 2K18

We just have to keep on improving from here.

I'm very, very nervous about any potential nerfing of this awareness and we are back at square one.

[antdoggydogg]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

Deflections on plays like the first clip would definitely help. I think those types of paint-to-paint passes should be most successful when using a lob pass. Similar to the million inside the paint lobs the warriors get from Draymond to Mcgee/Iguodala/Livingston in real life.

[Kushmir]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

For sure its improved.

Its still a crutch for many of us (myself included) and making it a thing of the past is one of the real, tangible ways they can buff defense by using mechanics already in the game.

[Coach2K]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

Honestly, I'm tired of deflecting the ball only to have it go right back to the offense or out of bounds.

I could probably put together a video of me tipping the ball 30 times in one 12 minute quarter game and not coming up with it.

Same with blocks. Back to the offense or out of bounds.

Same with unsuccessful alley oops going right back to the offense.

More deflections? Fine, just more go back to the defense.

You aren't really penalizing the offense when they get the ball right back even on a side out.

The other thing about deflections is that a shot taken after a deflection happens goes in at much higher rate than when no deflection occurred which rewards the offense again.

[alabamarob]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

The real issue is not letting us keep both hands up when the pass is made. If they just made it where you could use the right stick to hold both hands straight up it would stop most of the big to big passing.

In Kush's video you see Worthy lower his hands to allow the pass to go over. If he could keep both hands up it would have deflected the pass. I think 2k12 was the only game that let you do that.

[Kushmir]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

Honestly, I'm tired of deflecting the ball only to have it go right back to the offense or out of bounds.

I could probably put together a video of me tipping the ball 30 times in one 12 minute quarter game and not coming up with it.

Same with blocks. Back to the offense or out of bounds.

Same with unsuccessful alley oops going right back to the offense.

More deflections? Fine, just more go back to the defense.

You aren't really penalizing the offense when they get the ball right back even on a side out.

The other thing about deflections is that a shot taken after a deflection happens goes in at much higher rate than when no deflection occurred which rewards the offense again.

Hey Coach, hope you're good.

Anyway, when you play 2K as long as we have it certainly gets maddening lol. Still, too many turnovers makes the game sloppy (think about how playing the passing lanes is a bit overdone this year) Deflections are a good mechanic. Think about how we're seeing more balance between offense and defense than ever before. I'd suggest giving them more time to get that stuff straight. Think about how good rebounding is and how things like shooting behind the backboard are finally gone.

We all know how gameplay needs to reward good defensive plays more. Give it time.

[olajuwon34]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

The real issue is not letting us keep both hands up when the pass is made. If they just made it where you could use the right stick to hold both hands straight up it would stop most of the big to big passing.

In Kush's video you see Worthy lower his hands to allow the pass to go over. If he could keep both hands up it would have deflected the pass. I think 2k12 was the only game that let you do that.

If they added that feature back in maybe bounce passes would get used more in those situations.

[JoFri]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

I want to be able to do this with a bounce pass ....


p.s. Got this from strawberryshortcake post in another threat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kushmir]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

Saw this today and it reminded me why deflections are my preferred method of dealing with paint-passing. When it happened it felt like Embiid was being too psychic. The turnovers from passing lane deflections make the game sloppy enough as it is.

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[Kushmir]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

Saw this earlier. PERFECT deflection out of bounds. Should be the defensive reaction for the vast majority of paint-to-paint pass attempts.

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[Kushmir]

Re: Legacy Issue: Paint-to-Paint Passing

Inbounds are especially problematic because they allow guys to be 3 ft from the rim in an instant. If the right player can trigger a dunk animation there its all she wrote. The deflections/steals there HAVE TO be routine. Passes getting through must be super rare.

Capela gets a shot up here. He shouldn't have--allowing these passes to be completed is dangerous because depending on the player it potentially becomes an exploit. The defense was good on CP3's first attempt at a pocket pass. It can't allow an inbound point-blank at the rim.

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Case in point: Ayton almost finishes this:

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What happened too often in 2K18:

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