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50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

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Old 08-01-2015, 02:15 PM   #1
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50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

I have decided to create a new thread outside of the OS Community Slider Thread to use as a discussion place for a 50(ish) Threshold based slider set. When I say 50ish, I am basically meaning a range between ~40-60.

Discussion of Threshold

What does threshold do?: Threshold affects the acceleration of players. Let's say you have 2 players, 1 with 80 speed/90 acceleration and another with 80 speed/99 acceleration. Put them in a foot race....at 1 threshold, the 2nd player would always win due to his higher acceleration. At 100 threshold, it would be even due to the same speed (i.e. acceleration is basically canceled-out at high threshold).

Why use a threshold setting around 50?: A range of 40-60 threshold is considered the most ratings-based. See the following thread for more details:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...rs-2014-a.html

What is the best threshold?: Well jp18 did some awesome work using speed/acceleration tables and from that work, determined that a setting of 55 threshold is the speed that most accurately portrays all player speeds - LBs don't play too fast, RBs can break away, and WRs can get deep - IF the ratings allow.

Other Matters

What Auto Subs do you use?
Long story short....autosub settings have a major impact on gameplay! I first discovered this effect on M16 and decided to try it out on NCAA. Sure enough, definite impact. The simplest way to explain it is that the higher the autosub value, the more aggressive the players play. As I have done on M16, I am advocating going with default autosubs (60 Out/80 In) across the board. The gameplay feels a bit tougher, but lineplay is much more even (i.e., much harder to get sacks).

Sub Frequency
It is basically your fatigue slider. As in M16, this is best left at 50. Why? The CPU has more juice in their energy bar to break tackles, make special moves, etc. Setting both user and CPU coaches to all have a sub frequency of 50 also has resulted in more injuries (not enough for my taste...but better) and those second-half comebacks due to CPU slowing down are virtually eliminated. Those of you who like the fatigue off approach might enjoy this as a nice middle ground.

What do the other sliders do?: Refer to the following thread:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-included.html

User and CPU sliders affect one another: Put simply, you can't just jack-up CPU sliders and lower User sliders and get a realistic challenge. User and CPU sliders push and pull on one another...so raise one, and it affects the other. If the User QBA is at 5, the user QB will be more accurate when CPU QBA is at 50 as opposed to 10.

Coach Sliders:
OK....so JP and I basically wound up at the same spot when it came to coach sliders and it is playing well.

The basic parameters are as follows:
  • Offensive Run/Pass Ratio: basically to reflect the team's style.
  • Defensive Run/Pass Ratio: at or near 50 keeps the defensive playcalling more realistic.
  • Offensive Aggression: for the most part, the offensive aggression will be set above 50. The players play harder and teams go for the killer blow more readily (if too many teams are below 50 or so, the CPU play begins to suffer a fair bit). These are set to reflect the real life aggressiveness of the teams so a team like Baylor will be more aggressive than a team like LSU when it comes to deep balls and the like.
  • Defensive Aggression: The vast majority of teams will be set between 30 and 50. A setting of 30 is more controlled and disciplined - so your stronger defenses will be set at or near here for the most part. A higher setting is more aggressive (more gambling for tackles and so on) with a higher propensity for giving up big plays. The problem with really high settings is that CPU teams blitz a LOT and can make it almost too easy for the user to pick them apart.
Attached to this post is a modification of the PS3 of UGA's 2015 roster (with his permission...I take no credit for the roster at all....). JP set the coach aggression sliders and run/pass ratios for all of the coaches. If someone can host this roster, it would be most appreciated as I am currently hosting UGA's unmodified roster.

For XBox users, I have posted the exported 2015 coach spreadsheet from the editor...it just needs to be imported into the roster. I'd do it myself, but an unfamiliar with the XBox programs needed to compress the final roster. If someone can help by uploading it here, it would be terrific.

As an added bonus, I grabbed a 2013 roster (I think it is Buffeyes, but not 100% sure) and added jp's aggression slider and sub frequency edits to it. I went ahead and left the defensive run/pass ratio alone for this set.

Final Note & Disclaimer: These rosters are provided as a nicety to enhance the gameplay experience with these sliders. They are not necessary to make the sliders work nor will they be updated in the future.

All American Sliders (June 26, 2017)
I've been working for the past several weeks off and on to create a setup for NCAA which provides a more balanced and ratings-based experience. The biggest issue with this game (as with all the EA football games) is that adjusting sliders affects CPU play-calling behavior and results in a number of imbalances in player performance that results in a skewed one-way outcome for the various matchups. As such, I determined that I was going to go all-in with default gameplay and penalty sliders and conducted a number of trials.

In these trials, I came to one inescapable conclusion, Heisman is not the way to go. Heisman difficulty results in a number of issues which start us down the "slider spiral"....in short, players are overly aggressive, which leads to a lot of weird things like
  • "WWE tackles"
  • Defenders constantly overrunning plays (opening-up the read option)
  • O-linemen getting "the big push" where they can push a guy 5 yards downfield
  • Over-aggression in coverage, leading poor overall coverage and animation issues.
All of these things are issues that necessitate slider adjustments in order for the game to play reasonably well. Heck, we even went down the road of coach aggression adjustments in a vain effort to massage the problem. But, as my friend Matt10 taught me, look at the animations and fix the problem as directly as possible. So...here we go....we have issues...we're going to fix the problem....bye bye Heisman; Hello All American....and hear come the cries of, "But All American is too easy...sniffle...sniffle.".

Before this new round of testing, I last played All American 3-4 years ago. What have we learned since then that can help us?
  • HFA is a "keep games close" feature and is better when it is turned off.
  • The game plays tougher with the Main Menu fatigue slider turned "off"
  • The coach Sub Frequency is really a fatigue slider and directly impacts how well the CPU plays. We have found that a "default" value of 50 works best.
  • Use of offsetting game speeds between Main Menu and Dynasty can yield better results. More on this below...
  • Autosubs have a direct effect on gameplay. More on this below....

So, aside from the last two, this really is all pretty standard fare relative to my past work.

Game speeds: This worked really well on Madden and while I am not 100% on NCAA, the use of Main Menu speed at slow and Dynasty at normal works very well. I believe that when the two game speeds are identical, that the AI speed is "off" from the animation speed (so, you get QBs looking to throw to a receiver when he is only halfway through his route). By setting the main menu speed a notch slower, I believe that this tightens the gap and makes the CPU much more effective in targetting receivers.

Autosubs: I've said before that gameplay is most balanced when all of them are set to the same values. But here, let me throw a wrench into things. Default is not 60/80; but if you start with a brand new profile, it is actually 65/80! This was completely unexpected, but it got me going down the path of "which is default"? Well, I've played around with various settings for the last couple of months and frankly, I am still playing around with them a bit. I've played with 3 primary settings; 49/50, 60/80, and 65/80. I don't care much for 65/80; it feels a bit too "video-gamey" and I have ruled it out pretty quickly. Now 60/80 is very solid and if someone wanted to go down this direction, I wouldn't blame them.

But the autosub setting that has intrigued me is the 49/50 (which I pilfered from Madden's CFM setting). The most over-used word here is "organic"...but I am going to use it here...it feels organic. Tackling animations have variety, you see a good number of missed throws for the CPU (even though QBA is at 50), running backs have some "swerve", and because of the lower Autosub "In" value, the footplanting is much better overall.


Final Thoughts before I post the set....
  • This set is designed to provide a ratings-based experience. That means, if you have a dominant team, you will probably dominate (as you probably do on Heisman anyways). But...I also think that if you play a truly "sim" style, that you will still have a lot of fun here. I'm playing without any house rules and I have won big, won close, lost close, and been blown out. Matchups matter, but you still get that variety.
  • Also....this is the kind of set you need to play quite a few games to really appreciate. The difficulty here is deceptive. I tried the exact same setup on Heisman...and frankly, I thought it was easier because of the aforementioned issues on Heisman.
  • I have not tested on CPUvCPU or Coach Mode nor will I...don't ask me about how it plays on those modes. Also, I primarily use the d-linemen at the start of the play and then switch, if needed, later on. If you solely user a LB or DB, I have no idea how this will work.
  • Do not ask me about slider changes....the whole premise is to NOT adjust the sliders. I think if you play sim, give these a really long shot and just enjoy it without worrying about stats; I think many people will enjoy these.
Attached Images
File Type: png AA sliders.png (45.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: png Heisman.png (38.0 KB, 14 views)
Attached Files
File Type: zip 2015 coach spreadsheet.zip (18.3 KB, 731 views)
File Type: zip PS3.zip (2.65 MB, 298 views)


Last edited by JoshC1977; 06-26-2017 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 08-01-2015, 02:50 PM   #2
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Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

To get things rolling....I have cobbled this together based on some settings I have played with and what jp has been using. I will post results and impressions of my first three games with this set once played...
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Old 08-01-2015, 02:59 PM   #3
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Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

Following along on this endeavor
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Old 08-01-2015, 04:26 PM   #4
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Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

I'm going to judge a book by its cover - I can't see the human run game being remotely contained with these. What setting are you counting on computer defenders getting off of blocks to make plays? I still feel they have to have an advantage somewhere to stop Spread Offenses from running the ball. They aren't programmed to ignore 3 or 4 WR sets to stop the run.
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Old 08-01-2015, 04:49 PM   #5
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Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAMEBREAKER85
I'm going to judge a book by its cover - I can't see the human run game being remotely contained with these. What setting are you counting on computer defenders getting off of blocks to make plays? I still feel they have to have an advantage somewhere to stop Spread Offenses from running the ball. They aren't programmed to ignore 3 or 4 WR sets to stop the run.
Remember that higher threshes are a very different animal. Defender's speeds are going to be more in-line with "skill" players.

Defender ratings are going to drive their effectiveness. The holding slider being up so high is really what drives the block-shedding mechanic - the higher it is, the less holding animations.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:48 PM   #6
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Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

Does that mean the holding slider is reversed? According to EA the higher the slider the more "penalties" or in our case animations you will see. If it's not reversed the higher the holding setting the more holds you would see aka harder to get off blocks.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:53 PM   #7
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Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

Does that mean the holding slider is reversed? According to EA the higher the slider the more "penalties" or in our case animations you will see. If it's not reversed the higher the holding setting the more holds you would see aka harder to get off blocks. I wonder this because you guys always said the higher the holding slider the better the cpu run game but you also boost the hum run game. Now you say it helps you shed blocks if it is higher. (The whole run game has me perplexed if you can't tell on the slideritis)
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Old 08-01-2015, 06:04 PM   #8
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Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAMEBREAKER85
Does that mean the holding slider is reversed? According to EA the higher the slider the more "penalties" or in our case animations you will see. If it's not reversed the higher the holding setting the more holds you would see aka harder to get off blocks. I wonder this because you guys always said the higher the holding slider the better the cpu run game but you also boost the hum run game. Now you say it helps you shed blocks if it is higher. (The whole run game has me perplexed if you can't tell on the slideritis)
In a manner of speaking....yes....it is reversed

This is something I very recently figured out....our assumptions on this were wrong because we were always using such a high offsides slider. It wasn't until I started using a lower offsides slider that I realized how the holding slider worked.
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