A rant about parity and superteams

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by z Revis

Man, I see what you're saying and can even agree(players shouldn't complain or have a defeatist attitude, you're right), but again it seems like you're trying to say that just playing with more heart and fire is all that's needed to beat these teams. I don't know why else you'd be bringing this up lol. You can play as hard as you want, but the more talented players/teams are still going to win. There's a reason upsets aren't really a thing in basketball. Sure you can go back 6 years and point to Mavs over the Heat or go back 10 years and point out Warriors over the Mavs, but those are exceptions. Are you saying it's because players don't compete and have a defeatist attitude? In some cases maybe, but for the most part I don't think so. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes. The problem I have with the NBA now is lack of competition from the players themselves.

I wanted these playoffs to be great. Every year I get excited only to be let down (well the last two years...) I mistakenly thought this year would be different.

I looked at the matchups. Portland v GS. Clippers. Bucks... etc. and I thought, it's about to get good. I thought Portland was really going to come out firing. Lillard called it in 6 and everything only for them to just lay down.

The Clippers lose to the Jazz and the Jazz get destroyed. The Spurs had a injury yes, but I thought they were better than that. All the way around teams mostly completed one game then got blown out for the rest.

All of these players are talented, way more so than players from back in the day but they just don't have that "dog" in them.

When Durant went to Golden State did I like it? Not really. It was a surprise. I didn't see it coming at all. Eventually I got used to it. Do I blame him? No. He gave OKC all he had.

What ruins the NBA for me is that teams basically waved the white flag after he did it. That's not my mentality. I would have been anger and wanted to destroy GS.

"F*** THEM. WE CAN BEAT THEM" etc etc is how I would address my teammates going against them. Hopefully next season these young teams rise up and fight back.

There are a few young teams I like .. Minnesota, Milwaukee, Suns, Philly, Wizards,... I would love to see any of these teams rise up. They will one day.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmarcguy

I'm not as hardcore an NBA fan as I was in the 80's & 90's so I don't know the players in every team as well as I used to. Even though the Lakers, Celtics, & Bulls were in the finals a lot, it never felt as certain as it does now. There were always teams that pushed them. None of those teams were as dominant as the Warriors & Cavs. Who will be in the finals next year? The same two teams unless the Spurs get it in. That doesn't bore me because my team has no chance. It bores me because the regular season is meaningless. Only three teams have a shot at the finals. I agree with the earlier post that the recent finals that I enjoyed the most were when the Mavs & the Pistons won. If my favorite team isn't in it I go with the underdog. There was no real underdog in this year's championship. My bigger issue is how offense minded the league is now. It was a decent finals to me but when teams are consistently getting over 60 points a game by halftime, it just turns me off. The players shoot better & teams have more firewpower than teams in the 80's & 90's so I'm not a person who thinks old school was better. I just miss a variety of styles. Low post focused teams would have little chance today so everyone is pushing & looking for the three. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You have selective memory if you think the winner today felt hands down more dominant than the bulls, or if the matchup is more a lock than lakers v celtics in the 80s.

When you say you don't follow as much, are you basing this on the # of playoff games won or actually watching games?

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[jmarcguy]

I just meant I don't watch as many games as I used to. I a few minutes here & there. I need to find some players I really like & start following them more. There's plenty of talent out there I know. I'm still adjusting to the absence of low post players. There are plenty of good big men but they play further away from the basket. Just feels like everyone plays similar. Just me I know.

The Bulls didn't seem to be as highly regarded at the time as they are now. All I read in the media was how they were a full level below the Lakers & Celtics. I remember watching a lot of teams being a bit closer back then. I wasn't a Bulls fan so maybe I remember the regular season losses the most lol. It just feels like the most dominant players were featured in this year's finals. Bird, Magic, Jordan were dominant but it felt like there were other superstars on their level. Barkley, Thomas, Malone, Ewing, Wilkins, Olajuwon. Right now, I think Westbrook is amazing & Harden is good but there aren't many others on the Durant, James, & Curry level. Again, I don't watch enough so my opinion is based on limited exposure.



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[AlexBrady]

Superteams have existed since the beginning of time (though the players didn't collude with each other) . Note the ever increasing talent on each team as we go back in time. The list:

Warriors (2017) Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, Draymond Green, and Klay Thompson

Warriors (2015) Stephen Curry, Draymond Green, and Klay Thompson

Cavaliers (2016) LeBron James, and Kyrie Irving

Heat (2012,2013) LeBron James and Dwyane Wade

Spurs (2014) A rare team with no real stars. Tim Duncan was past his prime and Kawhi Leonard hadn't quite reached his peak. They played exceptional team ball.

Mavericks (2011) Dirk Nowitzki and a motley crew surrounding him

Lakers (2009, 2010) Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol

Celtics (2008) Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen

Spurs (2005, 2007) Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobli and Tony Parker

Heat (2006) Dwyane Wade and Shaquille O'Neal

Pistons (2004) Chauncey Billups and a modest cast around him

Spurs (2003) Tim Duncan was the only star player here

Lakers (2000-2002) Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant

Spurs (1999) Tim Duncan and David Robinson

Bulls (1991-1993 and 1996-1998) Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen

Rockets (1995) Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler

Rockets (1994) Hakeem was the one and only here

Pistons (1989 and 1990) Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars

Lakers ( 1985, 1987, 1988) Magic, Kareem, and James Worthy

Lakers (1980, 1982) Magic and Kareem

Sixers (1983) Julius Erving and Moses Malone

Celtics (1981, 1984, 1986) Larry Bird and Kevin McHale

Supersonics (1979) Gus Williams and Dennis Johnson

Bullets (1978) Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes

Blazers (1977) Bill Walton and Maurice Lucas

Celtics (1974, 1976) Dave Cowens and John Havlicek

Warriors (1975) Rick Barry and Jamaal Wilkes

Knicks (1973) Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe, and Dave DeBusschere

Lakers (1972) Wilt Chamberlain and Jerry West

Bucks (1971) Kareem and Oscar Robertson

Knicks (1970) Walt Frazier, Dave DeBusschere, and Willis Reed

Celtics (1969) John Havlicek was the only real star. Bill Russell and Sam Jones were a tad past their primes. They willed their way to a title and benefited from an epic Lakers choke.

Sixers (1967) Wilt Chamberlain, Chet Walker, Hal Greer, and Billy Cunningham

Celtics (1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968) Variously featuring Bill Russell, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones, Bill Sharman, John Havlicek, Tommy Heinsohn, Frank Ramsey, and Bob Cousy

Hawks (1958) Bob Pettit, Cliff Hagan, and Slater Martin

Warriors (1956) Paul Arizin and Neil Johnston

Nationals (1955) Dolph Schayes and Paul Seymour

Lakers (1950, 1952-1954) George Mikan, Vern Mikkelsen, Jim Pollard, and Slater Martin

Royals (1951) Bob Davies and Arnie Risen

[Dice]

In my opinion, when you talk about what’s good for the NBA determines on the metric on what your measuring as success. In the case of TV ratings, marketing and making money, the argument of parity verses dominance has little effect on that measurement. From my perspective, players are the ones who garner the interest of the casual fan and the more casual fans you draw to the game the more revenue the league makes. Right now, there are some pretty recognizable superstars in the league, but mainly Lebron James Kevin Durant and Stephon Curry. These are the reasons why the league is making money. Dominance verses parity is for the hard core fans.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmarcguy

I just meant I don't watch as many games as I used to. I a few minutes here & there. I need to find some players I really like & start following them more. There's plenty of talent out there I know. I'm still adjusting to the absence of low post players. There are plenty of good big men but they play further away from the basket. Just feels like everyone plays similar. Just me I know. The Bulls didn't seem to be as highly regarded at the time as they are now. All I read in the media was how they were a full level below the Lakers & Celtics. I remember watching a lot of teams being a bit closer back then. I wasn't a Bulls fan so maybe I remember the regular season losses the most lol. It just feels like the most dominant players were featured in this year's finals. Bird, Magic, Jordan were dominant but it felt like there were other superstars on their level. Barkley, Thomas, Malone, Ewing, Wilkins, Olajuwon. Right now, I think Westbrook is amazing & Harden is good but there aren't many others on the Durant, James, & Curry level. Again, I don't watch enough so my opinion is based on limited exposure. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I really think can attribute it to not being as familiar with the league as you may have been before. There's talent everywhere... some are young and still coming into their own, others don't have enough help to stand toe to toe with these teams with 3 or more stars. But as AlexBrady mentioned, this has been the norm in the NBA for pretty much its entire existence.

The difference in today's game is that the handful of teams worth talking about still live out West. If you start paying attention in the playoffs, you'll just see them knocking each other off without getting a direct test of what they would do in a series with GS or CLE... the one team that got the chance lost it's best player/MVP candidate. Meanwhile CLE didn't get much of a challenge until reaching the finals, being out East.

I'd also argue that the HOFers you mentioned still weren't on the same level of Bird, Magic and Jordan (even Kareem and McHale for the bulk of the two teams' runs). Similarly, there are lots of superstars in the league that will likely end up in the HOF, but aren't on the level of KD, Curry and James. And with that said, there are a couple that I think will be sitting at that table as early as next year if health allows.

It is a different game... I think you just have to dig in for a while and get used to it. Though I prefer having a post presence and more balance, today's game is just different... not lesser (imo of course). Just like the players choosing to construct teams rather than leaving it to the front office is just different. I'm not a fan of it but it is what it is, and the dynamic of the league isn't changed much because of it despite how it looks.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Lebron has never been on a Superteam, what you guys talking about?

Have you seen his rosters, there's nothing super about them.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmarcguy

I just meant I don't watch as many games as I used to. I a few minutes here & there. I need to find some players I really like & start following them more. There's plenty of talent out there I know. I'm still adjusting to the absence of low post players. There are plenty of good big men but they play further away from the basket. Just feels like everyone plays similar. Just me I know. The Bulls didn't seem to be as highly regarded at the time as they are now. All I read in the media was how they were a full level below the Lakers & Celtics. I remember watching a lot of teams being a bit closer back then. I wasn't a Bulls fan so maybe I remember the regular season losses the most lol. It just feels like the most dominant players were featured in this year's finals. Bird, Magic, Jordan were dominant but it felt like there were other superstars on their level. Barkley, Thomas, Malone, Ewing, Wilkins, Olajuwon. Right now, I think Westbrook is amazing & Harden is good but there aren't many others on the Durant, James, & Curry level. Again, I don't watch enough so my opinion is based on limited exposure. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I only watched a few games myself. I have to make more of an effort to watch more, or to at least watch the highlights next season. There are guys on Youtube who condense the games so good that all you need is 9 minutes of your time. I might start doing that