Agreed, and to tell you the truth I have no interest in getting into a which game is better debate because in reality both games have their strengths and weaknesses, and in the end it just comes down to preference. I will say that FIFA IMO gets a raw deal as an "arcade" game because of the default style of the game. With sliders however the sim aspect of FIFA is right up there with PES, the difference being as I said team/player individuality. I'll stop now as this is an impressions thread.