FIFA 10 Preview

[RamzaLugria]

Relax my man...
If you made it completely realistic (and yes I played the game for almost 20 years) it would not make a fun video game.
Most people probably play 8-15 minute halves, so that's about half an hour for a game. How many real games have score lines in that amount of time?
Very few. You would be begging for 0-0 or 1-0 scorelines every game.
Personally I thought 09 was much better than 08 primarily because it had better balance and through passes could actually work.
My biggest beef is with how barebones manager mode is and defensive organization is somewhat lacking.
I'm excited for FIFA 10 and can't wait. Peace!

[tescalumni2000]

Murkurial, calm the hell down. I also played soccer most of my life and it payed for my college. However, that means nothing, just like your rant! FIFA 09 was not perfect and by no means a 100 percent simulation. However it was the most fun I have ever had playing a sports video game.

BRING ON FIFA 10, I CANT WAIT.

But would someone please tell me if they finally make the USA better?

[Logic Doctor]

FIFA 09 is not completely sim but neither is any other game.

I get what you’re saying about being able to build up and picking out your midfielder for individual passes but trying to argue that FIFA 09's gameplay wasn't fun, or was completely broken is just unwise.

You can build up in 09 and you can pick your passes to your midfielders. You have the freedom to do that. Now it may not be as easy to do as you and others would like it to be, but you CAN do it.

Also I have no idea why your convinced that FIFA 10 will be a trickfest of rainbows and crossovers. Again, it’s an unwise concern? The moves have never really been consistently, or annoyingly, effective in any FIFA itineration. With the added 360 control, it sounds like we'll finally be able to make subtle moves both on offense and defense.

Ultimately, Soccer, football, futbal, whatever you want to call it, is a very organic and creativity driven game. To capture it 100% correctly is impossible. Consequently, to complain about certain idiosyncrasies in the gamplay of THE MOST AUTHENTIC SOCCER VIDEOGAME IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND is kinda silly.

Just be glad that the development team that is responsible for the FIFA series is extremely motivated to create the best videogame soccer experience possible for guess who......us.

[Murkurial]

Quote: Originally Posted by RamzaLugria

Relax my man... If you made it completely realistic (and yes I played the game for almost 20 years) it would not make a fun video game. Personally I thought 09 was much better than 08 primarily because it had better balance and through passes could actually work.

So would you say that same thing to the Madden heads who are always complaining about incredibly unrealistic things happening in Madden 08 and 09. Things which by all accounts have been addressed for Madden 10. They stress realism across the board and for the most part, people agree with them.

It just feels like a lot of people don't take the sport here seriously enough to really get concerned when they see things that they don't normally see when they're watching a game on television. Or at least they don't notice that what's happening in the game is a bit over the top.

Yes, games should be fun. But when you market a game as a sim and then it releases and you find that you can just fire up throughballs to Torres or Ronaldo, or ping the ball around the field, score ridicoulous bicycle kicks or 40 yard screamers everytime down the field, or even fire a single pass from your penalty box all the way to midfield, there's a problem. It's like playing Madden against someone and seeing a guy drop back 15 yards and then bomb it down the field, or just run around all day with a fast QB. Would you tell someone who complains about to just relax because the game is still fun?

It sort of sound like the same situation here.

Quote: Originally Posted by tescalumni2000

Murkurial, calm the hell down. I also played soccer most of my life and it payed for my college. However, that means nothing, just like your rant! FIFA 09 was not perfect and by no means a 100 percent simulation. However it was the most fun I have ever had playing a sports video game.

And before I say anything else about the quote that I placed in bold, why was it the most fun you've ever had playing a sports game?

And that's my point, it's marketed as a sim, and most people consider it to be one, but it isn't. But again, what exactly makes it so fun for you? Mind you, I'm not saying that I haven't enjoyed the game when I played it, but there are TON of problems that were introduced with 09, and that aren't really looking like they've been addressed in FIFA 10.

Quote: Originally Posted by Logic Doctor

FIFA 09 is not completely sim but neither is any other game. I get what you’re saying about being able to build up and picking out your midfielder for individual passes but trying to argue that FIFA 09's gameplay wasn't fun, or was completely broken is just unwise. You can build up in 09 and you can pick your passes to your midfielders. You have the freedom to do that. Now it may not be as easy to do as you and others would like it to be, but you CAN do it. Also I have no idea why your convinced that FIFA 10 will be a trickfest of rainbows and crossovers. Again, it’s an unwise concern? The moves have never really been consistently, or annoyingly, effective in any FIFA itineration. With the added 360 control, it sounds like we'll finally be able to make subtle moves both on offense and defense. Ultimately, Soccer, football, futbal, whatever you want to call it, is a very organic and creativity driven game. To capture it 100% correctly is impossible. Consequently, to complain about certain idiosyncrasies in the gamplay of THE MOST AUTHENTIC SOCCER VIDEOGAME IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND is kinda silly. Just be glad that the development team that is responsible for the FIFA series is extremely motivated to create the best videogame soccer experience possible for guess who......us.

1) I can't find where I said that it'd be a game full of trick moves up and down the field. But the game CAN be fun, when you're allowed to play in more than one way. Sitting back and passing the ball around, build up play laden with quick short passes ala Arsenal or Barça, isn't possible. I don't want to play a game where my best bet is to put Ronaldo at striker, pass a throughball to him, and just run.

I don't know how much you've played the game online but by all accounts it is pretty broken. In fact, the 2nd defender pressure and the 100 aggression and pressure custom tactics effectively ruins the game online. If they beef up the manager mode I'll probably go back to it but most of the compaints in the "Online Changes" thread on EA's official site talks about precisely what I'm talking about here. And it's even got some of the game developers there who've talked with the guys and agreed on a number of fronts. So this isn't just the whining of one "hardcore" soccer fan.

2) I don't want it to be easy. I just want it to be possible and unless you use assisted passing (some of this might depend on what control scheme you use) it's impossible to hold the ball up in the midfield when players like Pirlo and Scholes aren't able to control the ball and hold it up in the midfield like they're supposed to be able to. Couple that with the fact that (like I said earlier) you can simply hold down the B button and 2 people at one player and just knock him off the ball with little to no consequence, as well as simply run around the pitch chasing the other team for the full 90 minutes without your players ever getting tired, and you're looking at a game that is completely devoid of a midfield and one that more or less forces you to play end to end for the entire game.

It isn't just me who feels this way, if you wanna check out FIFAsoccerblog.com or evo-web.co.uk to look at some past discussion it'll show you what I'm taking about since I'm apparently too "hardcore" according to Kyle Korver.

3) With any game it's difficult to capture the real life experience 100% but simple things like some of what I've mentioned above that come into play in the real game, aren't represented at all in this one. I'll find a list that I made on another site if you really wanna know where I, and a number of others, seem to think the game falls short but again, and I don't want to sound like an *******, if people think that what they see in '09 is realistic, there's a problem. I keep hearing "FUN" being tossed out left and right and while that's surely an important part of the game experience, it shouldn't be focused on at the expense of realism.

Like, what passing settings do you use, and do you only play offline against friends, or do you play online?

4) If you're saying it's the most authentic because of the kits and licenses, that's a little silly. The authenticity should be found on the pitch and while it's not a TERIBBLE representation of the game it is more or less, "pass to fast player and run," which if you've played soccer like a few of you seem to have done, you have to know that's not how every game plays (at least not for the entirety of the game). In FIFA it almost always is unless you play against the CPU who on anything below Professional, are idiots, and on anything above it, are superhuman.

5) And lastly, I guess it depends on who you define as "us." Us, apparently "hardcore" (read: just looking for a bit of realism) soccer fans, which honestly should be anyone who's played the sport at a level above AYSO, and then those who really like 5-4 scorelines, Ronaldo running through entire defenses and firing a 100 mph shot into the roof of the goal nearly everytime down the field.

Some of this might have to do with how you play the game as well.

I'm assuming that everyone hear just steers clear of the Madden and 2k9 threads because of all the complaints about realism there? This is site dedicated to sports gaming if I'm not mistaken. One which a Madden lead developer actually frequents to get feedback from guys that are REALLY into their game.

Again, don't wanna sound like a dick but...I go to sites that are dedicated to FIFA and I see tons of legitimate comlpaints about things that I and a ton of people that I play against see in this game every time that they play it and then I come to Operation Sports, which compared to the football and basketball games forums, has very little activity in the soccer game forum, and I see a very small number of people (usually some of the same ones that mostly play football and basketball games) singing FIFA's praises.

[nuckles2k2]

Uhhh I don't know about some of the statements being made in here...sure FIFA 09 can be fun for the fan who wants a fast paced highlight reel style of gameplay (isn't that why they make FIFA Street?) but it offers very little to the fan who wants to play the game in a realistic fashion. And it's kind of funny that every other sports game is striving for that, the most realistic representation of the sport, but apparently that doesn't apply to FIFA.....really folks?

If you're saying making a soccer video game as realistic as possible would take away all of the fun factor, then you can't really be a fan of the sport or passionate enough about the sport to have any sort of opinion when it comes to making a simulation of it. Not every soccer game in real life ends with a total of 7+ goals...those games are actually something of a rarity. Some people can actually appreciate the tactical battle of a 0-0 or 1-0 game...if you're not one of those people then chances are you don't watch soccer in real life (because you'd hate the majority of the games you see) and your viewpoints of the game shouldn't weigh heavier than those of a person who lives and breathes the game.

The assisted passing in FIFA is atrocious...the way it's described is that is assits on both the direction and power of the pass, but in reality it also moves players on the opposing team out of the way to make sure that the ball gets to it's target. Now if you're a person who benefits from this then of course you're not going to want to see it leave, but you have to understand that thinking that way is completely subjective and ignorant. If I chose to use semi or manual passing so I can lay the ball off for a teammate in a more realistic fashion then I should not be at a disadvantage because my passes don't cause your players to allow easily delflected balls to pass right by them.

Pressure and Aggression in CTT might as well be called Persistence and Anal Violation. It does not make sense that I should be running for my life because someone turned their P&A up in their CTT. If someone is going to chase you down non-stop and put pressure on you all over the pitch then you should be able to use their aggression against them (like when you run a screen play in football? use the other team's aggression against 'em...ridiculously simple concept.) But in FIFA that is pretty much impossible because for some reason...when the opposing team has their P&A up...they're in every passing lane (which isn't possible...a soccer pitch is huge) all of a sudden your players lose accuracy on their passes, your players can not trap the ball, all the while the other team is just running everywhere and smashing into you.

The ball physics are pretty bad and for some reason they said they're increasing the speed on passes from one side of the pitch to the other? If people were having a problem competeing those passes, that's because it was an errant pass....just like errant passes in Madden and NCAA get intercepted.

Quote: Originally Posted by Logic Doctor

With the added 360 control, it sounds like we'll finally be able to make subtle moves both on offense and defense.

Is that an assumption you're making? Or can you back up that statement with some facts? Every article that I've read and interiew that I'e heard has said 360 Dribbling. So I don't know where you got the idea that defenders would be effected as well. That just sounds like you're just trying to dispell something that someone else said with no facts what so ever.

The game is taylored for the casual fan who just wants to win at all costs, and it ignores the people who just want to sit down and play a good game of soccer...win or lose. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...that's sports...that's strategy...but there is none in FIFA. Every game feels the same, garbage/cheap tactics have no counter...the only way to combat it is to do the same thing.


You guys CAN NOT seriously be saying that as long as you have fun with a game that you concede is not a sim...everything is ok? Where's the objectivity at guys? It seriously seems like someone too objectivity out back and murdered him these days. Everyone only cares about their subjective view point and it's like "**** everyone else."

A sim game is a realistic representation of the sport. In a sim game you can do whatever you want...it just doesn't mean it's going to work. In real life, players can close down all day and put pressure on everyone, and sprint full speed all game without worrying about keeping something in the tank for later in the game. The only reason why we don't see it is because:

1) they're human and can get tired (fatigue anyone?) and

2) the other team can counter that, and in all likelyhood grab a victory.

That. Is. Not. The. Case. With. FIFA 09.

[Mo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Murkurial

So would you say that same thing to the Madden heads who are always complaining about incredibly unrealistic things happening in Madden 08 and 09. Things which by all accounts have been addressed for Madden 10. They stress realism across the board and for the most part, people agree with them. It just feels like a lot of people don't take the sport here seriously enough to really get concerned when they see things that they don't normally see when they're watching a game on television. Or at least they don't notice that what's happening in the game is a bit over the top. Yes, games should be fun. But when you market a game as a sim and then it releases and you find that you can just fire up throughballs to Torres or Ronaldo, or ping the ball around the field, score ridicoulous bicycle kicks or 40 yard screamers everytime down the field, or even fire a single pass from your penalty box all the way to midfield, there's a problem. It's like playing Madden against someone and seeing a guy drop back 15 yards and then bomb it down the field, or just run around all day with a fast QB. Would you tell someone who complains about to just relax because the game is still fun? It sort of sound like the same situation here. And before I say anything else about the quote that I placed in bold, why was it the most fun you've ever had playing a sports game? And that's my point, it's marketed as a sim, and most people consider it to be one, but it isn't. But again, what exactly makes it so fun for you? Mind you, I'm not saying that I haven't enjoyed the game when I played it, but there are TON of problems that were introduced with 09, and that aren't really looking like they've been addressed in FIFA 10. 1) I can't find where I said that it'd be a game full of trick moves up and down the field. But the game CAN be fun, when you're allowed to play in more than one way. Sitting back and passing the ball around, build up play laden with quick short passes ala Arsenal or Barça, isn't possible. I don't want to play a game where my best bet is to put Ronaldo at striker, pass a throughball to him, and just run. I don't know how much you've played the game online but by all accounts it is pretty broken. In fact, the 2nd defender pressure and the 100 aggression and pressure custom tactics effectively ruins the game online. If they beef up the manager mode I'll probably go back to it but most of the compaints in the "Online Changes" thread on EA's official site talks about precisely what I'm talking about here. And it's even got some of the game developers there who've talked with the guys and agreed on a number of fronts. So this isn't just the whining of one "hardcore" soccer fan. 2) I don't want it to be easy. I just want it to be possible and unless you use assisted passing (some of this might depend on what control scheme you use) it's impossible to hold the ball up in the midfield when players like Pirlo and Scholes aren't able to control the ball and hold it up in the midfield like they're supposed to be able to. Couple that with the fact that (like I said earlier) you can simply hold down the B button and 2 people at one player and just knock him off the ball with little to no consequence, as well as simply run around the pitch chasing the other team for the full 90 minutes without your players ever getting tired, and you're looking at a game that is completely devoid of a midfield and one that more or less forces you to play end to end for the entire game. It isn't just me who feels this way, if you wanna check out FIFAsoccerblog.com or evo-web.co.uk to look at some past discussion it'll show you what I'm taking about since I'm apparently too "hardcore" according to Kyle Korver. 3) With any game it's difficult to capture the real life experience 100% but simple things like some of what I've mentioned above that come into play in the real game, aren't represented at all in this one. I'll find a list that I made on another site if you really wanna know where I, and a number of others, seem to think the game falls short but again, and I don't want to sound like an *******, if people think that what they see in '09 is realistic, there's a problem. I keep hearing "FUN" being tossed out left and right and while that's surely an important part of the game experience, it shouldn't be focused on at the expense of realism. Like, what passing settings do you use, and do you only play offline against friends, or do you play online? 4) If you're saying it's the most authentic because of the kits and licenses, that's a little silly. The authenticity should be found on the pitch and while it's not a TERIBBLE representation of the game it is more or less, "pass to fast player and run," which if you've played soccer like a few of you seem to have done, you have to know that's not how every game plays (at least not for the entirety of the game). In FIFA it almost always is unless you play against the CPU who on anything below Professional, are idiots, and on anything above it, are superhuman. 5) And lastly, I guess it depends on who you define as "us." Us, apparently "hardcore" (read: just looking for a bit of realism) soccer fans, which honestly should be anyone who's played the sport at a level above AYSO, and then those who really like 5-4 scorelines, Ronaldo running through entire defenses and firing a 100 mph shot into the roof of the goal nearly everytime down the field. Some of this might have to do with how you play the game as well. I'm assuming that everyone hear just steers clear of the Madden and 2k9 threads because of all the complaints about realism there? This is site dedicated to sports gaming if I'm not mistaken. One which a Madden lead developer actually frequents to get feedback from guys that are REALLY into their game. Again, don't wanna sound like a dick but...I go to sites that are dedicated to FIFA and I see tons of legitimate comlpaints about things that I and a ton of people that I play against see in this game every time that they play it and then I come to Operation Sports, which compared to the football and basketball games forums, has very little activity in the soccer game forum, and I see a very small number of people (usually some of the same ones that mostly play football and basketball games) singing FIFA's praises.

First of all no need to attack Chase.

Second, I don't see your complaint about the not building able to build attacks/work through the midfield/hold the ball, at least in offline play. I don't play online so I can't confirm/deny that, I'll take your word for it. I'm assuming online play like any games is going to be full of cheesers who are going to try to wins at any cost.

Third, before you go ahead and question my credentials(which you probably will) on the sports go ahead and ask around these boards to get your answer.

Fourth, Fifa 09 had issue, Fifa 10 will have issue as well. I think most developers try their best to correct issue that are pointed out to them. Will some be overlooked, yeah they are, but I think more will be addressed than overlooked.

When you play Fifa 10 and the issue are still there, come back and point them out, that's the only way its going to be fixed.

Finally, it's a Video Game it's never, ever going to be close to 100% realistic.

[Murkurial]

Quote: Originally Posted by miget33

First of all no need to attack Chase. Second, I don't see your complaint about the not building able to build attacks/work through the midfield/hold the ball, at least in offline play. I don't play online so I can't confirm/deny that, I'll take your word for it. I'm assuming online play like any games is going to be full of cheesers who are going to try to wins at any cost. Third, before you go ahead and question my credentials(which you probably will) on the sports go ahead and ask around these boards to get your answer. Fourth, Fifa 09 had issue, Fifa 10 will have issue as well. I think most developers try their best to correct issue that are pointed out to them. Will some be overlooked, yeah they are, but I think more will be addressed than overlooked. When you play Fifa 10 and the issue are still there, come back and point them out, that's the only way its going to be fixed. Finally, it's a Video Game it's never, ever going to be close to 100% realistic.

1) Well, the "hardcore" comment was both inaccurate and unnecessary.

2) That would explain that, but much like what Madden is apparently going to with the game both offline and on, the cheesers should be able to try it all they want, but it shouldn't work. I'm not talking about the incredibly cheap things like shooting from the kickoff or hitting a corner all the way to the opposite post knowing that the goalie won't react. If that happens to me I'll just quit the game. In general EVERYONE who plays online abuses the pressure and aggression and there's a fundamental flaw in the game when there is precisely ONE way to play the game that will more often than not work everytime, unless your opponent is just as good at playing that way as you are. And as for offline, it could be fun for some, but then those guys might not know just how much the MM is lacking compared to the last-gen versions of FIFA. But looking at the fact that online seems to be where everything is headed (and also where EA seems to be putting a lot of it's focus for FIFA, at the expense of any real strides in the MM) it's frustrating that the gameplay has effectively been tailored to those who want to play that way. I'm assuming you play against the CPU then because all of what I've mentioned is possible offline against a human opponent as well.

3) Wasn't going to say anything. And I wouldn't know who to ask so you could just tell me. But again, you didn't really say anything in your post for me to question.

4) Every game has issues, but when those issues are being brought up by the majority of the community day in and day out and then you read a listen to all the developer interviews. Speak directly to developers about the changes and come to the realization that the direction that their moving the game in might not be one that's very conducive to realistic play, then there's cause for concern. Every game nowadays pushes realism in all aspects. Including FIFA. Sure the game can be fun, if you like running with the fastest player and firing shots in from impossible angles, but it isn't real. If you call a game a sim and little things like players getting tired when chasing all over the pitch aren't fixed (this was a problem in 08 and was simply exacerbated in 09; the game isn't that fast ALL THE TIME), that's a little misleading.

4) Do you also tell this to the guys that complain about Madden, NCAA, and NBA 2k9? Cuz that's ALL I see on this forum. Complaint after complain after complaint and oh look, the devs are listening. I don't see that many complaints for FIFA here, but if you're seriously interested in seeing what the majority of the FIFA community has a problem with in regards to this game I will once again direct you to FIFAsoccerblog.com or evo-web-co.uk, or even the "Online Changes" thread on EA's official community site. I have nothing to do with either of these (as advertising your own site might be frowned upon).

I just feel like if you watch enough soccer, you'll realize that alot of what is possible in FIFA isn't possible ALL THE TIME in real life. In FIFA it's the only way to play and in a real match it'll get ya in trouble most of the time. Like guy said after me, if people are about fun at the expense of realism, FIFA Street is the way to go. And if you somehow think 09 was a realistic depiction of soccer then I don't know what to tell you. 08 had it flaws (responsiveness) and 09 fixed that in some regard, but it added a whole host of ridiculously arcadey elements as well. It seems like FIFA has decided to try and grab the casual audience more than those who actually enjoy what soccer really is most of the time (i.e., not 10-9 scorelines, rabonas, Cronaldo dribbling through entire teams, 40-yd screamers, etc., etc.).

Madden seems to wanna go in that direction now and people are praising that guy Ian Cummings for it. Suddenly someone wants some realism in a soccer game (which has been plagued by more or less the same exploits and shortcomings for a few iterations now) and there's a problem.

Fun doesn't equal Realistic. Doesn't have to be 100% realistic but it's weird that people are really impressed with where Madden is headed (towards what you see in the game being what you see on the field) and can't seem to see where FIFA (specifically 09) fails in that regard.

[Logic Doctor]

Well said midget33.

You guys with these page long lists of issues you have about FIFA are seriously hyper critical. I'd also like to bet you have no experience or knowledge of how you actually build a game of FIFA's complexity.

Every game has issues. I play online and offline. Obviously you run into cheesers online, its inevitable.

In my opinion, soccer is the hardest professional sport to replicate through an interactive experience.

Although it doesn’t meet your high standards for a SIM (considering you have never developed a videogame) it still IS the most realistic world club soccer experience you can have on a console to this current date.

While no game will ever be perfect I think we can at least feel confident about the direction FIFA's going, the positives FIFA offers and the commitment to fix ongoing issues by the FIFA development team