NHL 13 Video - Goalie Anticipation

[FBeaule04]

Quote: Originally Posted by LuGer33

The goalies in the final game won't move like the goalies in the Quick Clip raw footage. They will be tempered by momentum, physics, animations, etc. I believe that clip was just showing the goalie "tracking" (hence all the lines on the ice), and was likely a showcase of the "perfect goalies" Rammer talked about in an early interview. They were not playing like that in the build of NHL 13 I played. They moved much more realistically and similar to the 2K8 footage above. Not exactly, but a lot closer than what's demonstrated in the trailer. I remember one specific example: It was something like a 2 on 1 against Brodeur. He came out to challenge and I made a pass to the backdoor which was about where my winger ended up. Brodeur started to slide w/ the pass, but it was clear he was beat and so he sort of pathetically reached his glove out like you would see IRL in the same situation (independent limb control -- separate from the initial save animation; was awesome to see in motion) but didn't come close to the shot. Naturally, my winger drilled the post on an empty net from point blank range, but that's to be expected. Point is, he didn't magically slide across the ice at warp speed to make the save like some of the ones we saw in that video. Like so many other features over the past few years (sticks breaking, helmet pops, glass shattering, etc.) I believe they "juiced" things a bit for promotional effect there. The goalies will be the best they've ever been in NHL 13, in terms of realism, movement, save variety, etc., but they'll also be beatable unlike in that vid.

You said you've played a build of NHL 13. Don't you mind talking about glitch shots and money goals we say in the previous version? Is the curve shot still effective from most spot on the ice or the goalie can be beat once but then adapt?

[LuGer33]

Quote: Originally Posted by FBeaule04

You said you've played a build of NHL 13. Don't you mind talking about glitch shots and money goals we say in the previous version? Is the curve shot still effective from most spot on the ice or the goalie can be beat once but then adapt?

Out of curiosity, did you play NHL 08 or NHL 09? The curve shot actually hasn't been in the game in a few years. There's sort of a "whip / drag shot" that works from a specific area of the ice, but it's really not that hard to defend and its percentage isn't anywhere near the NHL 09 curve shot.

I didn't notice the whip shot being overly effective in NHL 13, although I didn't test it out too much because I was mostly playing fellow attendees and I wasn't trying to "glitch" them, so to speak. I know a few guys dabbled quite a bit in practice mode though and were trying things out, showing exploits and specific moves to the developers, etc., so I'm sure the whip shot was tested extensively. I'll snoop around & try to get an answer.

[RealmK]

Quote: Originally Posted by LuGer33

The goalies in the final game won't move like the goalies in the Quick Clip raw footage. They will be tempered by momentum, physics, animations, etc. I believe that clip was just showing the goalie "tracking" (hence all the lines on the ice), and was likely a showcase of the "perfect goalies" Rammer talked about in an early interview. They were not playing like that in the build of NHL 13 I played. They moved much more realistically and similar to the 2K8 footage above. Not exactly, but a lot closer than what's demonstrated in the trailer. I remember one specific example: It was something like a 2 on 1 against Brodeur. He came out to challenge and I made a pass to the backdoor which was about where my winger ended up. Brodeur started to slide w/ the pass, but it was clear he was beat and so he sort of pathetically reached his glove out like you would see IRL in the same situation (independent limb control -- separate from the initial save animation; was awesome to see in motion) but didn't come close to the shot. Naturally, my winger drilled the post on an empty net from point blank range, but that's to be expected. Point is, he didn't magically slide across the ice at warp speed to make the save like some of the ones we saw in that video. Like so many other features over the past few years (sticks breaking, helmet pops, glass shattering, etc.) I believe they "juiced" things a bit for promotional effect there. The goalies will be the best they've ever been in NHL 13, in terms of realism, movement, save variety, etc., but they'll also be beatable unlike in that vid.

Thanks Luger, like I've been saying in this thread, guys taking alpha footage or footage from within the dev tool interface and proclaiming it as final retail build quality drives me up a wall.

[FBeaule04]

Quote: Originally Posted by LuGer33

Out of curiosity, did you play NHL 08 or NHL 09? The curve shot actually hasn't been in the game in a few years. There's sort of a "whip / drag shot" that works from a specific area of the ice, but it's really not that hard to defend and its percentage isn't anywhere near the NHL 09 curve shot. I didn't notice the whip shot being overly effective in NHL 13, although I didn't test it out too much because I was mostly playing fellow attendees and I wasn't trying to "glitch" them, so to speak. I know a few guys dabbled quite a bit in practice mode though and were trying things out, showing exploits and specific moves to the developers, etc., so I'm sure the whip shot was tested extensively. I'll snoop around & try to get an answer.

It's pretty great to hear that. It was a real breaker for me and a friend playing online. To be quite honest, if there's a lot of glitching possible with NHL 13, we will be done with the game and play mostly online carreer on Madden.

As for the curve shot, yep, my bad. I was mostly talking of 2-3 money shots working every year. Call it curve shot, wraparound, peek-a-boo, toe-drag entering the zone and aiming the other side, etc. Every year (yep, I'm playing extensively the game even though I'm not that good) since 08 and every year, there's something preventing fair people to fully enjoy the game.

Thanks for the answer LuGer, was nice to read insight info. :-)

[LuGer33]

No problem guys.

Quote:

As for the curve shot, yep, my bad. I was mostly talking of 2-3 money shots working every year. Call it curve shot, wraparound, peek-a-boo, toe-drag entering the zone and aiming the other side, etc. Every year (yep, I'm playing extensively the game even though I'm not that good) since 08 and every year, there's something preventing fair people to fully enjoy the game.

Yeah I understand. It's just the curve shot was SO game breaking in NHL 09 (to the point where you could enter the offensive zone, curl, and fling far side for a goal 9/10 times from basically anywhere on the ice) that I just feel like it's worth differentiating between what we had back then and some of the still annoying but less effective exploits currently in the game.

Plus ya know, thank the lawd this can't happen anymore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjvxbU8FjEs

[Rogie Vachon]

Quote: Originally Posted by RealmK

Thanks Luger, like I've been saying in this thread, guys taking alpha footage or footage from within the dev tool interface and proclaiming it as final retail build quality drives me up a wall.

I feel that this comment is sort of directed in my direction.

All I can say is,....I think the cpu goalies look like they will be much better,and that everything done to the cpu goalies will likely improve the game a whole lot.
The only thing I`ve said is I hope I don`t see them overusing the diving saves just because it`s a new improvement.

My negative comments have primarily been based on what is there for human goalies.
Seeing that the big change is to remove the manual saves in order to shoe horn in the cpu goalie`s new anticipation AI,and possibly a change to allow us to use the paddle down technique properly (we still don`t know for sure,because nobody will give a straight answer to a question they are surely free to answer).....then they haven`t done much for human goalies.

Skaters have all these abilities,controls, and animations and the goalies get to use the LS.
Boring and irritating when one considers what skaters are able to do.

Imagine the skaters being forced to play the current game using the NHL`94 controls,then dumb those down a notch or two and you`ve got pretty much what human goalies get for NHL12/13

For those of us who like to play the game as a goalie,the human goalie has gone backwards from where game development was for them in NHL11.

So,to criticize my comments about the human goalie aspects,..while under the guise of comments about the cpu goalies is total misrepresentation of my crticisms.
You might not like my comments,but you`ve said nothing to invalidate them....only to misrepresent them.

[RealmK]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon

I feel that this comment is sort of directed in my direction. All I can say is,....I think the cpu goalies look like they will be much better,and that everything done to the cpu goalies will likely improve the game a whole lot. The only thing I`ve said is I hope I don`t see them overusing the diving saves just because it`s a new improvement. My negative comments have primarily been based on what is there for human goalies. Seeing that the big change is to remove the manual saves in order to shoe horn in the cpu goalie`s new anticipation AI,and possibly a change to allow us to use the paddle down technique properly (we still don`t know for sure,because nobody will give a straight answer to a question they are surely free to answer).....then they haven`t done much for human goalies. Skaters have all these abilities,controls, and animations and the goalies get to use the LS. Boring and irritating when one considers what skaters are able to do. Imagine the skaters being forced to play the current game using the NHL`94 controls,then dumb those down a notch or two and you`ve got pretty much what human goalies get for NHL12/13 For those of us who like to play the game as a goalie,the human goalie has gone backwards from where game development was for them in NHL11. So,to criticize my comments about the human goalie aspects,..while under the guise of comments about the cpu goalies is total misrepresentation of my crticisms. You might not like my comments,but you`ve said nothing to invalidate them....only to misrepresent them.

I'm right with you on over using diving animations believe it or not. Hopefully they're not over done though I'd be dishonest if I didn't have fears in that regard. As for human goalies "getting the shaft" as you put it. We don't know that yet one way or another. Hence the wait and see attitude.

I can't look into the future and see how the game handles human tenders. I doubt you have that ability either.

[FBeaule04]

I hope you're right Realm with the final product, but I would have to defend Rogie on this one, because, I'm sorry your honor, but we had precedent last year.

Remember Realm when Rammer was saying that the AI will now...I guess you know where I'm going. I got sent a bunch of answer telling me I was looking to far away, I had only clips, etc, etc.

Guess what, the AI played almost to the dumbness I had seen in the clips and was affraid it would translate in the game. Not only the final product showed the AI was more dumb than ever, but on top of that, EA told us that they had work most on the AI this year than in the last 3 year combined.

For Rogie, I understand the questions and disbelief from what he see so far. If there was no precedent, I would say that EA should have a pass on negative comments before the game is out, but EA as led us to be really critics with implementations of new things.

Overall, I hope you're right and Rogie's seeing to much black and not enough gray in the goalies work EA's done. Then again, after last year, I would be the last to throw rocks at him because EA is able to amaze you with their work as well as to make you say WTF?