MLB 13 The Show Player Ratings For Every Team

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by nomo17k

I'm just relaying the fact that the player raters at SCEA would try to dig into more auxiliary info (such as minor league stats) when a particular player has had limited playing time at the MLB level. And I'm just saying *if* (I don't know for sure) SCEA did use minor league stats, Trout having rated lower than Harper in Power does make sense. That's partly the reason SCEA rates players on weighted 3-year averages, because their strategy is to *try* to rate players based on their intrinsic abilities that could be observed over a longer time span, not just based on limited sample size like one year which can totally be dominated by injuries, luck, and other external factors. The reason why sophomore jinx *appears* to exist is actually because of this.... people tend to notice and emphasize a great performance by a rookie, but when he performs exceptionally well, beyond well above average, it usually involves a fair amount of luck as well. So his next year, when he isn't as lucky, he regresses to his normal performance level. The resulting stats don't look as good as in the first year. And people call this sophomore jinx, when it's actually a natural result of statistical/performance fluctuation.... the result of Mother Nature... hahhahaha. Rating players using more stats than just the first year at the MLB level avoids that kind of overrating players performing beyond their true abilities. Not saying the resulting ratings always come out reasonably though. Rating players isn't as cut and dry as you might be thinking here, although for the purpose of making the game most aspect of rating is very systematized. Gamers just think their know better because it always feels more accurate when a player is rated to their liking, and complain when he isn't. It's really not random.... they use formulas. ... and for online leagues, you can use your own roster, though not for Play Now/game rooms.... Comparison to other games like this isn't really meaningful as well... since 2 - 5 points difference in The Show isn't really the same as that in the other games. Again, I'm just relaying the info that I've gathered from things like this site and the CD event. Not trying to stir up or being defensive or anything.

Well, it isn't fair to "dig up" any minor league stats when both full rookie seasons are there to compare. It really doesn't matter what Trout did in the minors, it matters what he did last year--same as with Harper.

The only reasonable way to rate Harper and Trout is by what they both did in their first full year of major league baseball--which of course is just my opinion.

[Cavicchi]

By the way, I have also criticized Chapman's rating as a Pitcher. 99 for a relief pitcher who is entering his first year as a Starter?

Neither Trout or Chapman are on my favorite team. I am just annoyed by ratings that do not make sense to me.

[3fiddy]

Trout did get some abs at the MLB level in 2011. Wonder if that was entered hurt him ?

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by 3fiddy

Trout did get some abs at the MLB level in 2011. Wonder if that was entered hurt him ?

Talk about nit-picking

Were both Harper and Trout rookies last year? Yes. Maybe the real reason is Trout didn't want to be on the cover? ;-)

[nomo17k]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

Well, it isn't fair to "dig up" any minor league stats when both full rookie seasons are there to compare. It really doesn't matter what Trout did in the minors, it matters what he did last year--same as with Harper. The only reasonable way to rate Harper and Trout is by what they both did in their first full year of major league baseball--which of course is just my opinion.

When we are talking about sample size, it's well established that a one-year worth of stats isn't really large enough to evaluate player's true abilities. (Otherwise SCEA would just use one-year stats, not weighted 3-year average, to rate all players.)

I'll just give you an example how minor league stats could be useful to evaluate talents.

This player kinda struggled to stay at the MLB level for a few years, but in those four years he accumulated enough playing time to collect about a one-year worth of stats.

Year                      Age            Tm            Lg    G   PA   AB   R    H  2B 3B  HR  RBI SB CS  BB   SO   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS OPS+   TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB   Pos    Awards
1985                       21           TOR            AL   30   81   74   6   23   4  0   4   16  0  0   6   16 .311 .358 .527 .885  135   39   2   0  0  1   0               3
1986                       22           TOR            AL   34   90   83   7   13   2  0   4   13  0  0   6   27 .157 .222 .325 .548   45   27   3   1  0  0   0           D/357
1987                       23           TOR            AL   82  197  175  30   47   7  1  14   32  0  1  20   48 .269 .345 .560 .905  133   98   6   1  0  1   2            D3/5
1988                       24           TOR            AL   74  190  174  24   40   6  1   9   23  0  1  14   53 .230 .289 .431 .721  100   75   6   1  0  1   0           D3/54

You can see some flash of brilliance (he has some pop... hits some HRs.... look at 1987 haha), but other than that nothing really special.

When you look at his minor league stats, however, you can see that he's actually a decent prospect.

Year                        Age        Tm      Lg  Lev Aff   G   PA   AB   R   H  2B 3B  HR RBI SB CS  BB  SO   BA  OBP  SLG   OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
1982                         18     Butte    PION   Rk KCR  69  319  273  73  88  28  0  20  68  3  0  37  62 .322 .417 .645 1.062    176   8  0  1   7
1983                         19  Florence    SALL    A TOR 140  567  500  81 156  28  2  16  94  2  2  58  90 .312 .387 .472  .859    236   5  1  3   2
1984                         20   2 Teams   2 Lgs AA-A TOR 125  517  458  75 123  24  3  28  93  2  2  50  92 .269 .339 .517  .857    237   2  1  6  10
1985                         21 Knoxville    SOUL   AA TOR  96  414  361  52 106  26  2  18  81  0  0  45  83 .294 .372 .526  .898    190   3  0  5   3
1986                         22  Syracuse      IL  AAA TOR  88  363  325  47  91  13  3  18  68  0  0  32  91 .280 .347 .505  .852    164   3  0  3   3

He struggled enough to end up playing in Japan for a year. But when he came back

1990                       26           DET            AL  159  673  573 104  159  25  1  51  132  0  1  90  182 .277 .377 .592 .969  167  339  15   5  0  5  11   *3D ASMVP-2SS
1991                       27           DET            AL  162  712  624 102  163  25  0  44  133  0  0  78  151 .261 .347 .513 .860  133  320  17   6  0  4  12   *3D ASMVP-2SS
1992                       28           DET            AL  155  676  594  80  145  22  0  35  124  0  0  73  151 .244 .325 .458 .783  118  272  14   2  0  7   8   *3D     MVP-9
1993                       29           DET            AL  154  672  573  80  153  23  0  30  117  0  1  90  125 .267 .368 .464 .832  124  266  22   4  0  5  15   *3D  ASMVP-24
1994                       30           DET            AL  109  481  425  67  110  16  2  28   90  0  0  50  110 .259 .337 .504 .840  114  214  17   2  0  4   4            *3/D
1995                       31           DET            AL  136  578  494  70  120  18  1  31   82  0  1  75  116 .243 .346 .472 .818  111  233  17   5  0  4   8              3D
1996                       32           TOT            AL  160  688  591  85  149  20  0  39  117  2  0  87  139 .252 .350 .484 .834  108  286  18   5  0  5  12              3D
1997                       33           NYY            AL   98  425  361  40   94  15  0  13   61  0  0  51   87 .260 .358 .410 .768  101  148  14   7  0  6   3             D/3
1998                       34           TOT            AL  117  476  416  49   97  17  1  17   68  0  1  53  111 .233 .324 .401 .725   86  167  18   4  0  3   1              3D
13 Yrs                 13 Yrs        13 Yrs        13 Yrs 1470 5939 5157 744 1313 200  7 319 1008  2  6 693 1316 .255 .345 .482 .827  119 2484 169  43  0 46                  76

He ended up being quite a monster.

.... and this is Cecil Fielder, father of Prince.

in this case, what should SCEA do to create Cecil Fielder prior to his 1990 season? Using just his MLB stats from prior years would make him a one-tool guy with limited service time, which isn't really Fielder was in 1990.

Using minor league stats could help to evaluate him more appropriately in a case like this.

[Cavicchi]

They used one-year stats for Harper. As I recall, after that post season where Freese knocked in all those runs, he was given a 99 for Clutch, based on what? For how long?

Trout should not be rated 72 for power against RHP.

[ParisB]

Quote: Originally Posted by nomo17k

Yeah...... he's such a complete player...... he's really really mature for his age.... hahah. Great years ahead of him. Agree somewhat on Piazza.... compact but powerful swing... hit for high average and can produce power. ...but I think Trout is overall a much better player. Piazza could muscle everything, but he wasn't really that skillful or athletic.... at least Tony Gwynn didn't think so highly of Piazza for similar reasons, haha....

For sure. Piazza was just the first name I can think of when comparing the way Trout's home runs leave the yard. They seem to be still accelerating even when they don't seem like total bombs!

Hard to explain but you can see it in person (I go to many Angels games). When a Howie Kendrick splits the gap the ball may or may not reach the wall. When Trout does it, even opposite field, the ball just keeps a forward momentum like nothing I've seen before.

I've seen him crush a Felix pitch for a grand slam, ripped a shot off Verlander, Cain, and everyone he has faced....as a rookie. Even in the All star game, first AB against Dickey he goes with the pitch and singles to RF. He said he's never faced a knuckler before lol. Whenever he strikes out, you can see his adjustments in his next at bat. Crazy. There was a stat that broke down his batting average against pitchers by how many times he has seen them. It had a nice linear progression, haha.

Anyway, I sound like a homer but he's a great exciting player to watch. The best part is how much fun he appears to be having, plays with intensity when needed but skips and bounces around with a smile after a teammate makes a big play on defense, and is always the first guy waiting at the top of the dugout to greet a teammate that just hit a home run. He's like Steve Nash and leads the league in high fives and pats on the back haha.

[nomo17k]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

They used one-year stats for Harper. As I recall, after that post season where Freese knocked in all those runs, he was given a 99 for Clutch, based on what? For how long? Trout should not be rated 72 for power against RHP.

Well how do you know SCEA only used one year stats for Harper? I don't think they did...

Clutch is a terrible attribute which shouldn't be in a simulation game to begin with..... in real life there's little evidence that clutch ability actually exists (even if it did, it's small enough not to be observed by us, which makes it irrelevant in evaluating players)....

My guess as to why Freese got a 99 rating for Clutch is purely for an entertainment purpose. This is a game, and seeing the phenomenal performance in that World Series, everyone (except sabermetrics type) expects Freese to be *the* Clutch guy. SCEA just catered to that crowd by giving him what people expect. (In 2011 he did hit well in RISP, but then in 2012, Freese IRL went on to hit .275 in RISP, hitting .293 overall for the year.... is that clutch? I don't think so....)

.... and Trout having 72 for Power isn't totally unreasonable. If I go by the green line in the plot that I had earlier for HR/H for Power rating, he would've been rated at 67 Power for RHP (assuming 16.1% of his hits were HRs). So SCEA seemed to rate him higher than his 2012 stats against RHB suggests.....