Madden 09 News Post

Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

11:17 PM - May 14, 2008 by beau21

EA Sports have updated their Madden NFL 09 blog with tackling engine details and a video clip.

Quote:


	"One of our primary pet-peeves in Madden NFL has been in the responsiveness of tackling. We wanted to feel like as a ballcarrier or defender you are always in more control. The feeling of delay before a tackle started really took away from responsiveness. Also the "suction" you get when being pulled into tackles, well, sucks. We found that the cause of the delay was searching through our 300 and some odd tackles for one that "matched" the current scenario as close as we can, and while this may only take 1/10th to 1/4th of second, I found that delay un-acceptable. So we invented a whole new way to tackle this year."

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Member Comments

# 21 SageInfinite @ 05/15/08 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjv31


	WOW. If anyone tries to complain about this and say it doesn't look amazing they are getting 10 infractions lol

# 22 stmark @ 05/15/08 12:08 AM

i saw at least two face mask tackles in that vid i hope they call those this year....i cant stop watching......i love it

# 23 djordan @ 05/15/08 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	perhaps because you haven't played 08 much? i dunno, i could def. tell a huge difference.

i played 08 daily...

I will watch the video again at work on a better PC because my home PC was laggin the video..lol

# 24 JBucc @ 05/15/08 12:10 AM

That was great. The finally got the look of the game right. Good player models, good lighting, good textures and stadiums. Definitely the best looking football game to date.

# 25 LBzrule @ 05/15/08 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	If that is the case I know you will be like a hog in mud heaven cuz that's been your pet peeve for years Lbz.

Well if there is no suction blocking that means I can finally take my place in the middle of the D rather than playing Safety and yeah I'd be a hog in mud heaven if I can have fun playing in there.

# 26 Nza @ 05/15/08 12:12 AM

Are the 'camera shakes' in the game, or did he add those for emphasis? they actually make a considerable impact IMO and without them the video wouldn't be the same.

I'm not meaning to be negative but I'm not seeing the differences very easily. Can someone sum them up? At slightly after half way through, Andre Carter tackles Vince Young with that ball strip attempt/potential 15y face mask penalty tackle that has been in the series since Madden 05 or so. How is this different now? and if it isn't, why is it in this video?

All the animations are nice, but I see nothing there that tells me this is a different animation system. I see little to no real gang tackles. I see absolutely no example of the engine handling momentum and velocity like a true engine should. I see no rag doll. I still see defenders bounce off tackles (e.g. Brandon Jacobs vs Pats about a quarter through). Every animation there could have been pre-rendered. For all we know, they just made a whole heap of new pre-determined animations and improved the system to load more suitable ones, as well as break animations when a new one is trying to be instigated. This is fine, but it isn't an ideal tackling engine.

When EA can happily proclaim "never see the same tackle twice" in Madden, then I'll be impressed. That marketing line is the true calling card of a proper animation system by today's gaming standards and funnily enough is starting to emmerge in most EA games that actually have competition.

# 27 djordan @ 05/15/08 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nza


	I'm not meaning to be negative but I'm not seeing the differences very easily. Can someone sum them up? At slightly after half way through, Andre Carter tackles Vince Young with that ball strip attempt/potential 15y face mask penalty tackle that has been in the series since Madden 05 or so. How is this different now? and if it isn't, why is it in this video?

Co-sign..thats what im saying....

# 28 stmark @ 05/15/08 12:18 AM

Here comes the complaining give it a rest you dont like it dont look at it or buy it enjoy the video they improved a system in one year give credit where its due no video game will ever be perfect......live in the now wooooooooosaaaaaaaa

# 29 adub88 @ 05/15/08 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	My favorite part of the entire article: We have also eliminated the "explosion" phenomenon when the game couldn't find a tackle animation in time and characters bang off each other and both fall down. YES!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!! And I just watched the video - dang, it does look great, this could be the most responsive Madden in a long time from looking at those clips. No suction either from those clips, hopefully the whole game is like that (esp. on defense too).

I was about to say the same thing. Thanks goodness to the end of players falling like bowling pins.

# 30 Skyboxer @ 05/15/08 12:22 AM

Looks beter than 08 for sure. I still see a few "shoulder tackles" in the video but overall it looks better

# 31 Nza @ 05/15/08 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmark


	Here comes the complaining give it a rest you dont like it dont look at it or buy it enjoy the video they improved a system in one year give credit where its due no video game will ever be perfect......live in the now wooooooooosaaaaaaaa

But did they improve the system? I want to believe it, I'm just not seeing it. Can you identify the improvements for me?

It seems to me they just added a bunch of new animations *shrug*. They look good, but the guy is acting like Madden 08 didn't have procedural animations, which it did. So what is new about the system?

# 32 PVarck31 @ 05/15/08 12:24 AM

"And here come the pretzels. A barrage of pretzels downing Whitey Ford." If anyone can tell me what thats from and who said it, they get a poster of the week award!

Man I cant stop watching this vid......

# 33 Rocky @ 05/15/08 12:24 AM

It looks real good, but I'm not getting my hopes up just yet. The two full gameplay vids have been lackluster so I have to see more on that front. But this could be a big step in the right direction.

One little nitpicky thing. The football is a little bit too big and it makes the ball carrier look a little unnatural looking.

# 34 TeeDogg @ 05/15/08 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nza


	Are the 'camera shakes' in the game, or did he add those for emphasis? they actually make a considerable impact IMO and without them the video wouldn't be the same. I'm not meaning to be negative but I'm not seeing the differences very easily. Can someone sum them up? At slightly after half way through, Andre Carter tackles Vince Young with that ball strip attempt/potential 15y face mask penalty tackle that has been in the series since Madden 05 or so. How is this different now? and if it isn't, why is it in this video? All the animations are nice, but I see nothing there that tells me this is a different animation system. I see little to no real gang tackles. I see absolutely no example of the engine handling momentum and velocity like a true engine should. I see no rag doll. I still see defenders bounce off tackles (e.g. Brandon Jacobs vs Pats about a quarter through). Every animation there could have been pre-rendered. For all we know, they just made a whole heap of new pre-determined animations and improved the system to load more suitable ones, as well as break animations when a new one is trying to be instigated. This is fine, but it isn't an ideal tackling engine. When EA can happily proclaim "never see the same tackle twice" in Madden, then I'll be impressed. That marketing line is the true calling card of a proper animation system by today's gaming standards and funnily enough is starting to emmerge in most EA games that actually have competition.

my opinion is based on the videos ive seen thus far in conjunction with the blog, it just seems less scripted and more open from the vids seems like more stuff is happening on the fly as opposed to: players meet +animation triggered = play over. im with holding judment till i play em , but it just seems as though EA is making the efforts to to take it next gen ( or i should i say catch up to current gen LOL )

# 35 Nza @ 05/15/08 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adub88


	I was about to say the same thing. Thanks goodness to the end of players falling like bowling pins.

Maybe in 1 on 1 situations, but the video clearly shows the phenomena remains in 2 or more vs 1 situations. About a quarter through, Jacobs is down the sideline and a Pats defender takes out his legs, while the other is knocked over like a bowling pin.

Hey, it can happen in real life. But what also happens in real life is the 2nd defender hits the free falling body in mid air and changes its direction with a collision. Sorry guys, but until that is a reality in Madden I won't be impressed. When you're fully aware of what animation systems are out there, it's hard to be impressed by anything still based on primitive physics engines.

# 36 stmark @ 05/15/08 12:28 AM

i saw at least 4 differnt wrap tackles not including the ones that the runners broke out of......plus its may 15th relax breath you cant act like the people at ea arnt working there tails off every week your getting at least two updates .take the vid for what it is showing off more responsive animations

# 37 Nza @ 05/15/08 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeDogg


	my opinion is based on the videos ive seen thus far in conjunction with the blog, it just seems less scripted and more open from the vids seems like more stuff is happening on the fly as opposed to: players meet +animation triggered = play over. im with holding judment till i play em , but it just seems as though EA is making the efforts to to take it next gen ( or i should i say catch up to current gen LOL )

That's cool, but those improvements could be achieved by simply improving the system the blog author mentions was already in Madden. He talks about how, with their 300 or so tackle animations, the best one was chosen for the situation and sometimes this just wasn't good enough.

So you change the system, right? well, maybe not. You could just add 100's of more animations to enhance the probability a better one is chosen, and improve the code to instigate animations at closer range. Add in break points in animations to exit the full animation early and you have pretty much what Madden is now. Is this really a "new system"? A new system would be a pure physics engine.

# 38 Nza @ 05/15/08 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmark


	i saw at least 4 differnt wrap tackles not including the ones that the runners broke out of......plus its may 15th relax breath you cant act like the people at ea arnt working there tails off every week your getting at least two updates .take the vid for what it is showing off more responsive animations

Right, I'm not saying the video didn't look good (still want to know about the camera shakes though) or even it wasn't an improvement over 08 in the animation department, I just question the claims it is a "new system", or an "all new tackling engine".

It may seem trivial, but I think it's important to question if we ever want to see truly advanced tackling in Madden. I would hate for EA to proclaim it's a new engine and then fail to push towards the next big tackling animation advancement (i.e. true physics) because "we already made a new tackling engine in 09".

# 39 Scott @ 05/15/08 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjv31


	"And here come the pretzels. A barrage of pretzels downing Whitey Ford." If anyone can tell me what thats from and who said it, they get a poster of the week award! Man I cant stop watching this vid......

The Simpsons...technically the Announcer is saying that, but Marge was in charge of the pretzels

# 40 PVarck31 @ 05/15/08 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott


	The Simpsons...technically the Announcer is saying that, but Marge was in charge of the pretzels

Awesome job!! But who was the announcer?

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