Madden 2010 News Post

Madden NFL 10 Blog - Improvements to QB Position

06:54 PM - February 23, 2009 by Ian_Cummings

Check out the new Madden NFL 10 blog, which talks about improvements to the QB position.

Quote:


	"I'm back again folks, bringing you some more additions and improvements that you can expect to see in Madden NFL 10. This week, I'm going to focus primarily on the QB position and show some of the improvements we've made for this year. First off, I'm going to talk about a new animation technology that we can call "layered blending". Layered Blending "Layered blending? I thought you were going to talk about quarterbacks?" You'll see shortly how this works for QB's. First, a quick lesson on what blending is. Anytime a player transitions from one animation to another, he will use a 'blend' of his previous animation into the next animation. When you don't have a nice smooth blend, you'll get poppy / hitching animations. If you make blends that are too long, you can easily not have the correct amount of control over your player (he can feel very 'sluggish' or unresponsive). The most common types of blends are linear, ease in, and ease out. Those just refer to how many frames of either the previous or current animation you use while blending. For Madden NFL 10 though, we've added something new - the ability to actually separate the blends out between different parts of the body. We call this layered blending because it allows us to create different layered animation by blending one part of the body out quicker or slower based on the needs of the game. So how does it relate to QB's? Well, how often has this happened to you?"

Game: Madden NFL 10Reader Score: 7.5/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments

# 161 splff3000 @ 02/24/09 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezO


	There was nothing sim about the cone. All you had to do was hold the trigger and double-tap which ever pass button. At best it cost you an extra .3 seconds. I never felt it emulated a QB locating his receiver. And it was ugly.

The sim factor came in that you could read the QB's eyes and the QB could "look off" defenders. The QB also had to "look" at his receivers before he threw the ball instead of just chucking the ball up. I understand that some may say it's a gimmick and that's fine. That's your opinion. In my eyes though, there is no other way to accurately reproduce watching the QB's eyes than some kind of cone. Maybe it could be refined, well I know it could be refined to be less intrusive but ultimately there would have to be some kind of cone there. This is always the ultimate debate among Madden gamers. Some say it's a gimmick and some say it's sim. I can understand why some may not like it because of the way it was implemented before, but I don't understand why some would call it a gimmick. According to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimmick

"In marketing language, a gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. Thus, a gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature. "

How can you say the cone is of no use or relevance? You all may not like it, but it is far from a gimmick. I would be interested in seeing a poll asking who's for/against the vision cone. Either way, I know the results would be closer than the poll asking about keeping/removing lead blocker control. lol

# 162 g2thecore @ 02/24/09 07:43 PM

I for one HATED the very existence of the vision cone. I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "gimmick" per se, but I personally didn't find it very intuitive at all. If anything, it was more of a headache attempting to use it.

Though I understand the reason the feature was implemented, I think it could have been less intrusive.

# 163 GoToledo @ 02/24/09 07:46 PM

This about sums it up. Fantastic job Ian, Phil, and co. IMO, this is the best "feature" Madden has seen since last-gen.

# 164 RGiles36 @ 02/24/09 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splff3000


	The sim factor came in that you could read the QB's eyes and the QB could "look off" defenders. The QB also had to "look" at his receivers before he threw the ball instead of just chucking the ball up. I understand that some may say it's a gimmick and that's fine. That's your opinion. In my eyes though, there is no other way to accurately reproduce watching the QB's eyes than some kind of cone. Maybe it could be refined, well I know it could be refined to be less intrusive but ultimately there would have to be some kind of cone there. This is always the ultimate debate among Madden gamers. Some say it's a gimmick and some say it's sim. I can understand why some may not like it because of the way it was implemented before, but I don't understand why some would call it a gimmick.

Over the years, I've kind of sat on the fence about QB Vision. But more recently, I don't want to be bothered with it.

If having a distracting vision cone is only there to produce the effect of the QB looking off defenders and having to look at their receivers, then it's not worth it to me.

I think Vision Cone has a fanbase b/c of flaws in Madden's gameplay over the years. The vision cone helped to eliminate some of the cheese, so to speak. That's why it's widely regarded as sim by some of its fans.

For comparison's sake, when I play 2K's football games, I still feel the sim experience without the use of a vision cone. Just having the QBs turn towards the receiver before passing the ball is satisfying for me (which happens most of the time).

# 165 Nza @ 02/24/09 08:24 PM

I think just having to switch to a target before throwing would be enough. You don't need the visible cone, maybe just the button over the target's head changes or something to tell you who you're looking at. In any case, I don't think only being able to throw to who you're looking at is a bad thing.

The size of the cone was mostly redundant because unless the cone was so big every WR was in your range, I always found it far easier to switch to my desired target before throwing anyway, even if he already was in my vision. It was quicker to do that than determine if a player was in my vision cone before throwing - it became automatic to manually switch after a while. So the visible cone isn't really necessary at all.

BTW, back on topic to the new QB ratings. I can understand a new play action rating, but is it really that big a variable in real life? To me, whether a play action works depends far more on the offense as a whole than the QB. Any NFL QB should be able to sell a fake. What should matter is if the offense has a dangerous enough RB to punish D's who don't anticipate the run, and whether or not the offense currently has a good run game going. On the other hand, D's should be less reactive to runs based on whether the offense has a deep threat dangerous enough to punish D's who do anticipate the run, and whether or not the offense currently has a good pass game going. The run should open up the pass by D's biting play action, and the pass should open up the run by D's not stacking the box and reacting to runs so quickly. Not sure how a QB play action rating fits in honestly.

IMO the game needs a (perhaps hidden) overall defensive rating/slider that dictates their Pass/Run in real time, adjusting as the game goes on. 0 means they are going all out for the run, 50 is half/half, and 99 is all out to stop the pass. And it shouldn't always start at 50/50 either to begin a game - it should start based on the team matchup.

# 166 TheTodd84 @ 02/24/09 08:37 PM

Good Job EA and Ian and I LOVE your commitment to simulation football, this is such a refreshing change, it cannot be put into words.

However, I have one question that may be a dealbreaker for some of us as to whether or not we are spending $60 to buy this game. Here it is:

How will this layered blending be applied to offensive linemen, running backs, as well as defensive players to make the game more realistic?

This has been asked before, but I am just wondering. If this layered blending is applied to all of those positions to eliminate suction animations, I will be the first person after that blog comes out to pre-order both games.

Just one disclaimer, and you can call me a cynic. I just hope that these features are tested properly because as someone mentioned before, if the deep pass accuracy and strength ratings are too high, people can just cheese and throw deep posts ad nauseum, effectively ruining an otherwise good game.

But, great job guys!

# 167 TheTodd84 @ 02/24/09 08:40 PM

please excuse me for my last post, that question has been asked non-stop and i hadn't read the comments enough yet, haha. My bad. I am always a day late and a dollar short with these things because I can only come on here once a day. Dammit, lol.

Either way, can't wait to hear more info.

# 168 Madwolf @ 02/24/09 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dat swag


	Ian...I hope you took his comment seriously. The man does have a point. lets not get too carried away with all the positivity...There is still many years of disappointment festering in those loyal fans that have waited...waited..and waited and...Well you get my drift. I think what you guys are doing is great and much needed but I'm still not getting my hopes up too high...There have been too many disappointing Madden years to put myself through that again. As much respect as I have for EA, Madden and Tiburon I just want to say I think everything you guys are doing to include this community in the process is great...But at the same time those of us older posters and consumers who have 20+ Madden years under our belt or those of us who were early adopters and supporters of next gen from the git go may be hard pressed to crown Ian's Madden team the savior. I don't want to sound ungrateful but I need to see marked improvement. Procedural Awareness and all these other fancy names...In the great words of Jim Mora mean "Diddly Poo" if the gameplay is not overhauled and tightened up...Good luck my friends and I will remain hopeful and optimistic for Madden 2010 Keep up the good work though. Oh..BTW would you mind reviewing and commenting on this thread http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-pre-play.html

The guy was honestly trolling. It didn't deserve any better response than what it got.

# 169 jbooc13 @ 02/24/09 09:35 PM

best at the short passes is philip rivers hands down . he is one behind cutler off the play action pass as well

# 170 Lakers 24 7 @ 02/24/09 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madwolf


	The guy was honestly trolling. It didn't deserve any better response than what it got.

lol. It's sad that you guys feel that way. I'm sorry my response wasn't all positive, so because of that I'm trolling? Having an opinion that doesn't go with the status quo isn't trolling.

# 171 roadman @ 02/24/09 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakers 24/7


	lol. It's sad that you guys feel that way. I'm sorry my response wasn't all positive, so because of that I'm trolling? Having an opinion that doesn't go with the status quo isn't trolling.

I don't feel it was trolling, but I don't feel it was the appropriate place to bring up other issues you have.

I know you already know that, though.

Like someone else said, Ian asked along with other posters for a wish list forum and the mods made one.

# 172 teambayern @ 02/24/09 10:46 PM

Ian, you could be the savior of this wayward franchise. I was impressed by your involvement in the forums and like what I see here. Keep up the good work. Right now, AFp2k8 is ahead of Madden in the gampleay department, but it's good to see you taking their lead on things and going past them on others. Please make Madden sim again.

# 173 Tyrant8RDFL @ 02/24/09 10:53 PM

Im really happy to see how the Guys at EA are approaching Madden for 2010.

They are really listening to our ideas and utilizing them with their own ideas.

Man it can really happen a true sim football game on the next gen system.

Keep up the great work EA!!!!!

# 174 splff3000 @ 02/24/09 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	I don't feel it was trolling, but I don't feel it was the appropriate place to bring up other issues you have. I know you already know that, though. Like someone else said, Ian asked along with other posters for a wish list forum and the mods made one.

I agree. Your post was kinda out of place. That's the first thing I thought when I read it. You are correct that there's a ways to go before we get true sim, but Ian and Co. didn't say this was the end of their announcements. For all you know, after they are finished with the game, it could be the greatest sim game ever. I know that's a longshot, but it could happen. This was a significant announcement and everyone was enjoying the moment and you had to go call the cops to the party.

# 175 alliance4g63 @ 02/25/09 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nza


	BTW, back on topic to the new QB ratings. I can understand a new play action rating, but is it really that big a variable in real life? To me, whether a play action works depends far more on the offense as a whole than the QB. Any NFL QB should be able to sell a fake. What should matter is if the offense has a dangerous enough RB to punish D's who don't anticipate the run, and whether or not the offense currently has a good run game going. On the other hand, D's should be less reactive to runs based on whether the offense has a deep threat dangerous enough to punish D's who do anticipate the run, and whether or not the offense currently has a good pass game going. The run should open up the pass by D's biting play action, and the pass should open up the run by D's not stacking the box and reacting to runs so quickly. Not sure how a QB play action rating fits in honestly. IMO the game needs a (perhaps hidden) overall defensive rating/slider that dictates their Pass/Run in real time, adjusting as the game goes on. 0 means they are going all out for the run, 50 is half/half, and 99 is all out to stop the pass. And it shouldn't always start at 50/50 either to begin a game - it should start based on the team matchup.

Great post!

I feel this needs to be prioritized if possible. There have been a few times(more than I want to admit) where someone had a good running game against me. So that caused me(safety pre-snap) to bite hard because I was so concerned about another big run. This ofcourse took me out of the play and left the big play wide open. So I feel this needs to be implemented alongside the new ratings. A person should be forced to respect the run if you are eating them alive.

And secondly in the passing game for both Madden and APF, the draw play is pretty much useless, whereas in the NFL it can be deadly. When I am effective with my passing game, the defense has to respect it and get more Db's on field or atleast spread the field more. So the draw play needs to be way more effective when the passing game is on point.

Real football is timing. A mere second too late or too early can potentially take you out of a play. So if a LB hesitates two seconds to see if I am running the ball or not, it should be a big play waiting to happen.

# 176 kcarr @ 02/25/09 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alliance4g63


	And secondly in the passing game for both Madden and APF, the draw play is pretty much useless, whereas in the NFL it can be deadly. When I am effective with my passing game, the defense has to respect it and get more Db's on field or atleast spread the field more. So the draw play needs to be way more effective when the passing game is on point.

Another thing that really helps the draw in real life that doesn't happen in madden is when you have speed rushing DE's or your DE's are trying to get to the outside to get pressure on the QB that takes them away from their outside contain responsibilities and makes them very easy to block. This leaves huge holes in the dline to when the tackels can be sealed off and if ran from a spread formation where the D is spread out due to extra recievers this can leave huge gaps for the back to run through.

This happens quite a bit leading to successful draw plays especially in generally passing situations but the best example of this I have seen in the last couple years was in the 07 season the colts pats game. The colts came in to the game with a pretty decently rated defese but the pats had a top notch passing game. Freeney and Mathis were racing upfield as soon as the ball was snapped and Indy was playing with extra DBs due to the spread offense of the pats. This led to a lot of big runs for the pats off of draw plays that in madden would get shut down

# 177 alliance4g63 @ 02/25/09 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcarr


	Another thing that really helps the draw in real life that doesn't happen in madden is when you have speed rushing DE's or your DE's are trying to get to the outside to get pressure on the QB that takes them away from their outside contain responsibilities and makes them very easy to block. This leaves huge holes in the dline to when the tackels can be sealed off and if ran from a spread formation where the D is spread out due to extra recievers this can leave huge gaps for the back to run through. This happens quite a bit leading to successful draw plays especially in generally passing situations but the best example of this I have seen in the last couple years was in the 07 season the colts pats game. The colts came in to the game with a pretty decently rated defese but the pats had a top notch passing game. Freeney and Mathis were racing upfield as soon as the ball was snapped and Indy was playing with extra DBs due to the spread offense of the pats. This led to a lot of big runs for the pats off of draw plays that in madden would get shut down

Good point. And this is the chess match we all speak of. I want to feel like coach when calling plays, especially when I recognize tendancies like this. Nfl players/coaches get to watch film on their next opponent. In the videogame world, we can only recognize what they continue to throw at us. When a player refuses to evolve their gameplan, they need to be punished. If someone wants to continue to speed rush, even after I break a draw for a big play, let me continue to punish. Ian, you would be amazed at how many online players will never evolve and call the same plays even when you have stopped them multiple times or capitalized on their same mistake.

I remember when Vick was causing problems for defenses. The first defense I saw completely shut him down were the Eagles. And they did this because the pass rushers would rush and then pull up and contain. Vick all of a sudden couldn't run around anymore because the D-line were no longer over-pursuing. This is the type of stuff that needs to be in Madden.

# 178 kcarr @ 02/25/09 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alliance4g63


	Good point. And this is the chess match we all speak of. I want to feel like coach when calling plays, especially when I recognize tendancies like this. Nfl players/coaches get to watch film on their next opponent. In the videogame world, we can only recognize what they continue to throw at us. When a player refuses to evolve their gameplan, they need to be punished. If someone wants to continue to speed rush, even after I break a draw for a big play, let me continue to punish. Ian, you would be amazed at how many online players will never evolve and call the same plays even when you have stopped them multiple times or capitalized on their same mistake. I remember when Vick was causing problems for defenses. The first defense I saw completely shut him down were the Eagles. And they did this because the pass rushers would rush and then pull up and contain. Vick all of a sudden couldn't run around anymore because the D-line were no longer over-pursuing. This is the type of stuff that needs to be in Madden.

Also, the strategy need to go beyond playcalling. There need to be strategy settings like maybe in that strategy menu from the pause menu. There should be settings for each d-line position with options such as try to rush to the outside, try to rush to the inside, try to plug up holes, keep contain, etc. There should also be things such as percentages of the time that you want each player to lean towards looking for the pass or the run. Also set double teams, how often you want to press or play off, how often you want to go for ints, how tight you want to cover. Each of these things has some sort of risk to go along with a possible reward. Also maybe be able to set these things for varying downs and distances to create a gameplan.

For realism maybe only allow changes to be made between series and only some then. Maybe more between quarters and unlimited at the half. Probably to much strategy for casual gamers so you would have to be able to turn this off or have everything set by the CPU as an option

# 179 teampunjabi @ 02/25/09 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alliance4g63


	Great post! Real football is timing. A mere second too late or too early can potentially take you out of a play. So if a LB hesitates two seconds to see if I am running the ball or not, it should be a big play waiting to happen.

You are ON POINT my man. I feel the need to emphasize this so that Ian can read that very statement. I cant tell you how happy I would be if that statement would be implemented in its entirety in Madden 10.

# 180 rudyjuly2 @ 02/25/09 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakers 24/7


	lol. It's sad that you guys feel that way. I'm sorry my response wasn't all positive, so because of that I'm trolling? Having an opinion that doesn't go with the status quo isn't trolling.

I agree with Roadman. I didn't see it as trolling at all but just not the right spot to bring up more problems with Madden (plenty of threads out there).

We've already discussed this and it's over and done with. You seem like a good guy Lakers 24/7. I just didn't want this thread turned into another "What is wrong with Madden thread."

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