Tiger Woods 10 News Post

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 Update (IGN)

09:20 PM - March 11, 2009 by DivotMaker

IGN has posted the following Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 updates:

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 First Look (360)

Quote:


	"Also adding to the authenticity of the tournament atmosphere are USGA officials that will be standing at every hole and a USGA rulebook that can be pulled up and referenced, much like the pros can throughout their day."

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 Videos (Wii)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 Videos (360)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 Screenshots (Wii)

Game: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 10Reader Score: 7.5/10 - Vote Now
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Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 10 Videos

Member Comments

# 101 Skyboxer @ 04/20/09 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivotMaker


	EA is not going to give PS3 users more courses out of the box than 360 users. Then you would be giving PS3 offline users more courses than 360 offline users who do not subscribe to XBox Live. If both consoles has similar media capacities, this would be a moot issue. On top of all this is the cost of creating courses for 360/PS3. They take FAR more resources to create than Wii or PS2 courses. Much more expensive to generate the the data (laser scanning) and far more people to convert the data into an actual digital version of the course. Lastly, each 360/PS3 course is 200+ MB in size and this along with other features for the 360/PS3 take up far more disc space than their predecessors, the PS2/XBox and Wii, most of which is related to the impact of High Definition graphics throughout the game.

Again if they had the courses they could do that and not use the "Dvd" as an excuse.
I agree it would be better to have the same "Specs" but it's not like DVD's are getting filled up as it is. Or at least consistantly. It would be a much bigger issue if the PS3 was doing better than it is also.

Also I can't remember the game (MLB2K game maybe) but there was something that had downloadable content for the 360 that was on the PS3 version already. So it has been done before.

# 102 DivotMaker @ 04/20/09 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyboxer


	Again if they had the courses they could do that and not use the "Dvd" as an excuse. I agree it would be better to have the same "Specs" but it's not like DVD's are getting filled up as it is. Or at least consistantly. It would be a much bigger issue if the PS3 was doing better than it is also. Also I can't remember the game (MLB2K game maybe) but there was something that had downloadable content for the 360 that was on the PS3 version already. So it has been done before.

How do you know they don't have the courses already? You don't and neither do I. The plan every year has been to finish the courses to be on the shipping disc first, then worrying about DLC courses once the game is finished. The 360 DVD IS an issue and has been since the PS3 came out whether you choose to believe it or not. If you don't believe me, contact EA and ask them because I have and the answer I have posted is the answer they gave me and it makes sense. EA could put the 360 version on 2 DVD's, however the cost for EA and end users for each game would go up as MS receives a royalty on EVERY 360 DVD that is sold. DLC is for now a much better option.

Just because one developer put more content in a game for the PS3 than the 360 version does not mean EA is going to do it for TW. That would be a HUGE PR nightmare IMO. You may not like the reasons why EA is preferring to use DLC for additional courses, but it is the path they are using until something changes to allow them to ship the same game with more courses on both PS3 and 360.

# 103 Skyboxer @ 04/20/09 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivotMaker


	How do you know they don't have the courses already? You don't and neither do I. The plan every year has been to finish the courses to be on the shipping disc first, then worrying about DLC courses once the game is finished. The 360 DVD IS an issue and has been since the PS3 came out whether you choose to believe it or not. If you don't believe me, contact EA and ask them because I have and the answer I have posted is the answer they gave me and it makes sense. EA could put the 360 version on 2 DVD's, however the cost for EA and end users for each game would go up as MS receives a royalty on EVERY 360 DVD that is sold. DLC is for now a much better option. Just because one developer put more content in a game for the PS3 than the 360 version does not mean EA is going to do it for TW. That would be a HUGE PR nightmare IMO. You may not like the reasons why EA is preferring to use DLC for additional courses, but it is the path they are using until something changes to allow them to ship the same game with more courses on both PS3 and 360.

Where did I say anywhere that they had/did have the courses? I said if they had the courses the could easily include on the BR disk and have it as DLC for the 360 and make the whole "Dvd" size issue mute...
What is the ratio of DVD's that are full compared to not full. Heck what's the ratio of BR's that are filled? I said IF they are still not even filling DVD's then the size issue has no weight IMO.
Also I could care less as I have both (Well all 3 systems) so "Accepting it" doesn't make any sense as I have no vested interest in any system. Just the games.
Again it's been done before is all I'm saying. As long as they make em I'm getting them

Also you really think from day 1 there's been a size problem with the programmers dealing with BR vs DVD? Most titles were ported not because of size but because of $ and marketshare in the console sales.

Sorry for taking the thread off topic guys....Good discussion DivotMaker...

# 104 rolltide1017 @ 04/20/09 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyboxer


	I said if they had the courses the could easily include on the BR disk and have it as DLC for the 360* and make the whole "Dvd" size issue mute...*

This wouldn't work and it would be unfair to some 360 owners because not every 360 owner has access to XBL. Also, unless this has changed this year, download courses can not be use in PGA Tour season mode which would mean that 360 owners would have less course to play during there season if EA did what you suggest.

Quote:


	What is the ratio of DVD's that are full compared to not full.

I don't understand why this matters. Point is, it is a problem for the TW team at EA. I even believe that the NCAA devs have expressed concern about the DVD size in future NCAA games. Plus, wasn't there a Japanese RGP game released with in the last year that was on 2 DVD for the 360. So, some DVDs are getting quite full while other are not.

Quote:


	Heck what's the ratio of BR's that are filled?

I doubt a BD will ever be fill to the rim in the PS3s lifetime. If a devs claims to have filled up a BD then they are not telling the whole story. I've seen some claim this only then to explain that they just didn't compress the code as much as they could have because, well, they didn't need too.

Do I think the DVD size is an issue for the 360? For most games not but, for a handful of games each year I think the devs would have liked more room (if only so they could breath a little easier).

# 105 Skyboxer @ 04/20/09 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolltide1017


	This wouldn't work and it would be unfair to some 360 owners because not every 360 owner has access to XBL. Also, unless this has changed this year, download courses can not be use in PGA Tour season mode which would mean that 360 owners would have less course to play during there season if EA did what you suggest. I don't understand why this matters. Point is, it is a problem for the TW team at EA. I even believe that the NCAA devs have expressed concern about the DVD size in future NCAA games. Plus, wasn't there a Japanese RGP game released with in the last year that was on 2 DVD for the 360. So, some DVDs are getting quite full while other are not. I doubt a BD will ever be fill to the rim in the PS3s lifetime. If a devs claims to have filled up a BD then they are not telling the whole story. I've seen some claim this only then to explain that they just didn't compress the code as much as they could have because, well, they didn't need too. Do I think the DVD size is an issue for the 360? For most games not but, for a handful of games each year I think the devs would have liked more room (if only so they could breath a little easier).

1: It would work because it's been done before. Plus if the "no XBL available" was a real issue to them then they shouldn't be putting out patches as they wouldn't feel that would be fair either.

Basically what Im saying is yes eventually the size may be an issue but right now I simply don't believe for 1 second that they can honestly say the size is an issue IF they aren't filling up the DVD's we have now.
I say IF because I really don't know what the disk space left is right now on most games. If they are filling up DVD's now then ok I'll agree the size is an issue now.
If not then when/If or even if it is a problem now, they still can get the stuff in if they want through DLC. So if somethings not on BR it's thier decision to not include it and it has zero to do with the DVD and more on the fact they want to do direct ports.
If I thought the size was limiting me getting a better game/experience you can guarantee I'd be screaming to high heavens

# 106 DivotMaker @ 04/20/09 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyboxer


	1. It would work because it's been done before. Plus if the "no XBL available" was a real issue to them then they shouldn't be putting out patches as they wouldn't feel that would be fair either. 2. Basically what Im saying is yes eventually the size may be an issue but right now I simply don't believe for 1 second that they can honestly say the size is an issue IF they aren't filling up the DVD's we have now. 3. I say IF because I really don't know what the disk space left is right now on most games. If they are filling up DVD's now then ok I'll agree the size is an issue now. If not then when/If or even if it is a problem now, they still can get the stuff in if they want through DLC. 4. So if somethings not on BR it's thier decision to not include it and it has zero to do with the DVD and more on the fact they want to do direct ports. 5. If I thought the size was limiting me getting a better game/experience you can guarantee I'd be screaming to high heavens

1. You are not getting it here.....EA is NOT going to ship TW or any EA game with more content on the PS3 disc than the 360 disc. Period. There are still far too many people who are NOT connected to XBox Live and the reasons Rolltide mentioned above are REAL, not imagined.

And please show me where any major console game today that is NOT receiving patches of some kind. That argument is just wrong.

2. Size IS an issue with TW09/10, etc as 16 courses take up roughly 4 GB of a 7 GB disc. EA says they can't put any more courses on the 360 DVD now since TW08 (15-16 courses), TW09 (16 courses), yet you argue that they are holding back courses because they are not being truthful about how much data the game is taking up on the DVD....seriously?

3. We're talking about TW10 here, not other games.

4. Huh? What does this have to do with direct ports? And the decision not to put courses on BR is a decision not to offer more content to PS3 owners than 360 owners. I don't follow your argument at all.

5. For TW10, start screaming then because the DVD IS the limiting factor.....

# 107 OnlookerDelay @ 04/20/09 06:54 PM

My question about the number of courses on the PS3 and 360 versions boils down to this... how many *real* courses could EA Sports put on a game disk and still maintain the target profit margin? If they had to image and create an extra four courses, for example, would they see their return on investment while still holding a $59.95 list price?

# 108 DivotMaker @ 04/20/09 07:19 PM

I don't have an answer to your question John, but it is a fair one. What I DO know is that licensing costs have gone up every year and some of the new courses for TW10 did not come cheaply from a licensing perspective. When they are all announced, you will likely understand.

At the end of the day, the Executive producer for TW10 told me point blank that the reason they have 16 courses in TW10 is PRIMARILY due to lack of disc space on the 360 DVD. I also think that if they did have more disc space, they would have to weigh the additional licensing fees in the development budget to ROI in game sales. Since I don't have the exact numbers, I can't do anything but speculate. However, if what I was told about the number of planned DLC courses is correct (assuming they are all licensed courses), then the disc space issue is the primary reason for only 16 courses shipping with the game.....

# 109 OnlookerDelay @ 04/20/09 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivotMaker


	What I DO know is that licensing costs have gone up every year and some of the new courses for TW10 did not come cheaply from a licensing perspective.

I'm like everyone else in wanting more courses, but in the final analysis I really have to wonder... let's say that Tiger Woods 10 had 24 courses (if the 360 DVD could hold them) versus 16; how many more people would buy the game just because of that? I know it would be more, but enough to offset the higher cost of producing them? I have my doubts.

Quote:


	However, if what I was told about the number of planned DLC courses is correct (assuming they are all licensed courses), then the disc space issue is the primary reason for only 16 courses shipping with the game.....

I saw in the EA Sports forum where Mike's reply about what a good idea it would be to have the DLC courses plug into the PGA Tour season mode.... and added "I'll add it to the list." It sounds like he's hearing that for the first time!? I along with others have yammered about this for the last two years. Is it really possible that he's just now considered this?

Also, when he said he'd add it to the list, do you think he meant for TW 10 or TW 11? I almost think they couldn't make a change like that at this juncture, even as seemingly insignificant as the idea sounds. I notice he didn't answer this same question there, but I figure he really doesn't have time to read and parse every question, let alone respond in detail to all of them.

# 110 DivotMaker @ 04/20/09 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnlookerDelay


	1. I'm like everyone else in wanting more courses, but in the final analysis I really have to wonder... let's say that Tiger Woods 10 had 24 courses (if the 360 DVD could hold them) versus 16; how many more people would buy the game just because of that? I know it would be more, but enough to offset the higher cost of producing them? I have my doubts. 2. I saw in the EA Sports forum where Mike's reply about what a good idea it would be to have the DLC courses plug into the PGA Tour season mode.... and added "I'll add it to the list." It sounds like he's hearing that for the first time!? I along with others have yammered about this for the last two years. Is it really possible that he's just now considered this? 3, Also, when he said he'd add it to the list, do you think he meant for TW 10 or TW 11? I almost think they couldn't make a change like that at this juncture, even as seemingly insignificant as the idea sounds. I notice he didn't answer this same question there, but I figure he really doesn't have time to read and parse every question, let alone respond in detail to all of them.

1. Good point and probably one EA has already considered.

2. Nope, I made a point of brining this up at TW Community Day. It is possible that he was not around when I brought this up.

3. TW 11 unfortunately. Too late to add anything of any significance for TW10. I do have a good feeling that it will be in TW11 based upon a PM he sent me today.

# 111 rolltide1017 @ 04/21/09 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivotMaker


	3. TW 11 unfortunately. Too late to add anything of any significance for TW10. I do have a good feeling that it will be in TW11 based upon a PM he sent me today.

Big disappointment about waiting for 11 but, not enough to keep me from buying the 10. Although it may keep me from buying every DLC course since I play in season mode 85% of the time.

Don't know how EA will add it to TW11 but, one way I think would work would be similar to how you can customize your schedule in NCAA. Before each season you can change any of your non conference games but the conference games can not be changed. In TW, before each new season starts, they could give you the option of choosing a different course for every tournament. They could lock the location of any real life tournament that has its course in the game but give you the option to change the rest.

# 112 scottmac @ 04/21/09 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivotMaker


	No, the true limiting factor is the 360 DVD. If what you stated was true, then the Wii would not be coming out with 27 courses on the Wii DVD. Wii courses take up 1/3 or less of the disc space that 360/PS3 courses use.

So if the Wii is a different game then why cant the ps3 and 360 be different to each other. I still think money has something to do with it. I bet when the next Xbox comes out with higher capacity discs they will still have downloadable golf courses for a price.

# 113 DivotMaker @ 04/21/09 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolltide1017


	1. Big disappointment about waiting for 11 but, not enough to keep me from buying the 10. Although it may keep me from buying every DLC course since I play in season mode 85% of the time. 2. Don't know how EA will add it to TW11 but, one way I think would work would be similar to how you can customize your schedule in NCAA. Before each season you can change any of your non conference games but the conference games can not be changed. In TW, before each new season starts, they could give you the option of choosing a different course for every tournament. They could lock the location of any real life tournament that has its course in the game but give you the option to change the rest.

1. With the emphasis of online play in TW10, I am sure this is a major reason why this has not been included. I am disappointed as well, but when you see what they have planned for online play features, you might change your mind about offline play. I am like you in that I play mostly offline in TW08/09 because the online play is simply not a compelling option for PGA TOUR Season mode play. Hopefully TW10 addresses this issue for online play.

2. I like your idea. Makes all the sense in the world.

# 114 DivotMaker @ 04/21/09 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmac


	So if the Wii is a different game then why cant the ps3 and 360 be different to each other. I still think money has something to do with it. I bet when the next Xbox comes out with higher capacity discs they will still have downloadable golf courses for a price.

Because the PS3 and 360 are very similar in capabilities and both output in HD, which the Wii does not which changes many things about the games. Money does have something to do with it, but likely not solely for the way you describe. I am not sure if the next 360 will come out with higher capacity discs, but the trend seems to be a shift to downloading and streaming of games instead of using physical media. Hard to say what will come with the game in the future, but I do believe microtransactions are here to stay.

# 115 Skyboxer @ 04/21/09 07:59 AM

I want this thread to get back on track but first to clear up some misquotes:

I never said games don't recieves patches? It was said the DLC wouldn't happen as it wasn't fair because some don't have LIVE. I said then it isn't fair to release patches because some don't have LIVE, if that was a legit excuse. No where did I say games don't receive patches.

Also I never said "that they are holding back courses because they are not being truthful about how much data the game is taking up on the DVD" Never came close to saying that at all.
I said If they in fact had the courses they could just add them to DLC for the 360 and not use the DVD excuse to not include them on BR.

All I'm saying is that there are ways around the size issue as yes the DVD size can and probably does in some games hamper the content availability especially now a few years into this gen's life.

# 116 DivotMaker @ 04/21/09 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyboxer


	Also I never said "that they are holding back courses because they are not being truthful about how much data the game is taking up on the DVD" Never came close to saying that at all. I said If they in fact had the courses they could just add them to DLC for the 360 and not use the DVD excuse to not include them on BR.

EA is NOT going to do this because then PS3 users would have more content ON THE GAME DISC than 360 users who do not have access to XBox Live. The BR/360 DVD issue is not an excuse, but reality. You cannot imagine the uproar that would come from 360 users (especially those who play offline only) if EA did what you describe.

# 117 Skyboxer @ 04/21/09 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivotMaker


	EA is NOT going to do this because then PS3 users would have more content ON THE GAME DISC than 360 users who do not have access to XBox Live. The BR/360 DVD issue is not an excuse, but reality. You cannot imagine the uproar that would come from 360 users (especially those who play offline only) if EA did what you describe.

I agree with you that it wouldn't go over well. I was just simply saying it was an option.

No matter how they do it like others I hope the majority are real courses.
On another subject was there any mention of a course creator in the future?
I know we had them on PC but I'd assume the programming (Lighting etc..) would not make a course creator feasible for console....

# 118 DivotMaker @ 04/21/09 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyboxer


	On another subject was there any mention of a course creator in the future? I know we had them on PC but I'd assume the programming (Lighting etc..) would not make a course creator feasible for console....

I don't see a course creator for consoles until they all have hard drives for storing courses under construction as well as the course creation tools as well as mouse/keyboard support for all consoles. It would be virtually impossible to create a course with a standard gamepad.

# 119 Zalf @ 04/21/09 10:41 AM

Divot,

I know you have mentioned sticking with the PC version in the past mainly due to the number of user made courses available. With the emphasis on Online modes for consoles this year do you see the benefit of those modes overcoming the massive course list for the PC?

# 120 DivotMaker @ 04/21/09 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalf


	Divot, I know you have mentioned sticking with the PC version in the past mainly due to the number of user made courses available. With the emphasis on Online modes for consoles this year do you see the benefit of those modes overcoming the massive course list for the PC?

I hope so. I just got a glimpse of what EA is planning for online play, but I was excited at what I saw. Can't wait for more details to be released about online play for TW10....

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