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NBA Live 10 News Post

Check out the new NBA Live 10 video, which features shooting & driving the lane.

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NBA Live 10 Videos
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# 101 Peninc @ 09/09/09 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambowie
- If you pause the video at the right moment right after that clip (~0:19) you can see all the players with no jerseys on and their midsections are invisible. w.t.f.
I saw that too...

Anyway Good video but i think Ive seen enough videos for now. Now I just want to play it. Czar's gameplay breakdowns should be a pretty good watch though.
 
# 102 zakarias @ 09/09/09 10:36 AM
Donīt like the low post move (teletranport) of Amare.
 
# 103 MrMars @ 09/09/09 10:39 AM
First of all, let me chime in and say that Live 10 is looking amazing, cant wait until the 10/6/2009.

Second, if you guys here on this forum aren't the nit-pickiest bunch of people, I for one am tired of the; "they didn't get so and so's tattoo on his left ankle right" or the "the players shoulder isn't quite proportionate to his body" type replies.

I have worked in IT for 15 years. No, I do not program games, I'm more of an MIS guy, I work with Data. I also have been an avid sports gamer since RBI baseball on the original NES system. Having owned Live 09 and trading it in due to my own gamebreaker issues (none of which had any thing to do with what i am ranting about above) the improvement I have seen over one development cycle is incredible, and the development team should be showered with praise.

I'm not going to assume that no one here understands full life cycle development, but to the ones that don't, let me tell you the improvements that I have seen not only let me know that Live 10 will be light years ahead of of its predecessor, I can also see the big picture as far as future iterations of the series.

The gameplay improvements in future Live games will be subtle, perhaps greater DNA integration, greater depth in post play, Online dynasty mode, things of that nature. This should allow the development team to focus more on feature related content and online play. This is what I see from their focus on core gameplay for this years version. This is the foundation for the future of the series.

In closing, cut the developers some slack, if you cant tell by what you have seen already allow me to enlighten you; THOSE GUYS WORKED THEIR A** OFF FOR THIS YEARS GAME. They could have easily given us a bunch of new features that may or may not have been cool and kept the same gameplay engine from 09, and it would have sold enough units on brand recognition alone.The developers still get paid the same amount of money either way, so give them some props for taking the high road and making the commitment to improve the series.

Will it be a perfect game? Hell no, none are. I however, believe it will be the most fun to play of either B-Ball game this year, and isn't that what really matters anyway?

MrMars
 
# 104 Pared @ 09/09/09 10:43 AM
Yeah, 2 of Live's biggest supporters over the years, through gameplay edits and sliders, being told they have glasses on.

Pardon me if I don't really care coming from you. The irony in your statement is hilarious.

At this point, if you don't have anything to say about the video, since that is what we were discussing, I guess we're done here.
 
# 105 23 @ 09/09/09 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMars
First of all, let me chime in and say that Live 10 is looking amazing, cant wait until the 10/6/2009.

Second, if you guys here on this forum aren't the nit-pickiest bunch of people, I for one am tired of the; "they didn't get so and so's tattoo on his left ankle right" or the "the players shoulder isn't quite proportionate to his body" type replies.

I have worked in IT for 15 years. No, I do not program games, I'm more of an MIS guy, I work with Data. I also have been an avid sports gamer since RBI baseball on the original NES system. Having owned Live 09 and trading it in due to my own gamebreaker issues (none of which had any thing to do with what i am ranting about above) the improvement I have seen over one development cycle is incredible, and the development team should be showered with praise.

I'm not going to assume that no one here understands full life cycle development, but to the ones that don't, let me tell you the improvements that I have seen not only let me know that Live 10 will be light years ahead of of its predecessor, I can also see the big picture as far as future iterations of the series.

The gameplay improvements in future Live games will be subtle, perhaps greater DNA integration, greater depth in post play, Online dynasty mode, things of that nature. This should allow the development team to focus more on feature related content and online play. This is what I see from their focus on core gameplay for this years version. This is the foundation for the future of the series.

In closing, cut the developers some slack, if you cant tell by what you have seen already allow me to enlighten you; THOSE GUYS WORKED THEIR A** OFF FOR THIS YEARS GAME. They could have easily given us a bunch of new features that may or may not have been cool and kept the same gameplay engine from 09, and it would have sold enough units on brand recognition alone.The developers still get paid the same amount of money either way, so give them some props for taking the high road and making the commitment to improve the series.

Will it be a perfect game? Hell no, none are. I however, believe it will be the most fun to play of either B-Ball game this year, and isn't that what really matters anyway?

MrMars
MrMars welcome aboard man... continue to post your thoughts on the game..should be a good year and I definitely agree, they worked pretty hard to change up the core gameplay this year, and it shows
 
# 106 23 @ 09/09/09 11:25 AM
Now that said.... You guys going on about this trailer and help defense just stop it.

Its getting old as heck and you know good and well its on lower difficulty. I expect this crap from rookie posters but not you guys to continue on with this stuff.

Its been beaten a million times, Live 09 had better help defense than any other game put out last year including slider tweaks.

If Mike says the NCAA team helped them improve their zone defense, and the longest part of Da Czar's article is on defense then I know its there, including what i've seen and what I know from this series history.

Its a bunch of Bull yall spouting off and you know it is
 
# 107 Joka2122 @ 09/09/09 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeljordanjr
I don't get when people say that because the other NBA games have shown nothing literaly and last years version was very frustrating and pitiful.

this video was amazing, it shows a massive amount of control and I can't believ how far from live 09 this is.

the choice is EASY THIS YEAR
No my friend. The choice is going to be hard as LB23 stated. NBA 2k has been on top for multiple years. NBA Live has greatly improved in just a matter of a year which is great but, a "easy choice" is not based on how much one game has improved but rather how much better the game is vs. its competition.
 
# 108 Pared @ 09/09/09 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
Now that said.... You guys going on about this trailer and help defense just stop it.

Its getting old as heck and you know good and well its on lower difficulty. I expect this crap from rookie posters but not you guys to continue on with this stuff.

Its been beaten a million times, Live 09 had better help defense than any other game put out last year including slider tweaks.

If Mike says the NCAA team helped them improve their zone defense, and the longest part of Da Czar's article is on defense then I know its there, including what i've seen and what I know from this series history.

Its a bunch of Bull yall spouting off and you know it is
If it's a non-issue, fantastic. Won't know until the game is here.

"Bunch of bull" is pretty harsh for a game you haven't played. Looking at the vids, it's a solid concern. There were even some issues of it in the YouTube video that was an All-Star difficulty.

But again, it's there. If you can't comment on the video, there's no point in putting it up except to go "wow, awesome, sick!"

As it has been said plenty of times, will need to wait for the demo/final before knowing for sure. As if a sports video game never "broke" something year to year.
 
# 109 loadleft @ 09/09/09 11:51 AM
I guess this is kinda a question and a comment to the guys that are discussing the defensive rotations in the video. I read somewhere from one of the developers that there are a couple of approaches to making the difficulty settings progressively easier/harder. One would be ratings boost (which I assume is not possible in Live 10 since they don't have shot ratings) and the second would be making the defense less stout on the lower levels. This appears to be the approach that has been taken in Live 10. It seems to me that if the defense rotated and contact was forced on the easier levels (which we've been told are used for these videos) then those levels would not be easy. I guess they could just allow the offensive players to score over good defense but I think that would amount to a ratings boost. So my question is how would the lower levels be easy if the defense rotated to the ball and defended the offense properly? It's like when I play basketball with my kids, to make it easy for them I pretend to be slower than they are and can't jump higher than they can even though I an a foot taller. If I played them with straight up D how would they score? I guess my thought is that in some way the game has to be easier on the lower level and if it's not with weaker poorer rotating D how would you guys make it easier? Let me end this by saying I am not trying to start an argument but I seen you guys discuss this topic in a couple of other threads and it just got me wondering: "Well how else would you make the game easier on lower levels?"
 
# 110 23 @ 09/09/09 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pared
If it's a non-issue, fantastic. Won't know until the game is here.

"Bunch of bull" is pretty harsh for a game you haven't played. Looking at the vids, it's a solid concern. There were even some issues of it in the YouTube video that was an All-Star difficulty.

But again, it's there. If you can't comment on the video, there's no point in putting it up except to go "wow, awesome, sick!"

As it has been said plenty of times, will need to wait for the demo/final before knowing for sure. As if a sports video game never "broke" something year to year.

Pared man come on with this crap dude. At least we do know who has played the game bias aside and unless you want to call the dude a liar im more inclined to believe him along with the other examples I posted. Its complete bull.

I cant believe you're going on with this help defense crap in another trailer when the devs have stated thats EXACTLY what they did.

I dont need to wait for anything because I know someone who doesnt have ties to a game company that played it.

I dont care if you arent wowed by the video because im not wowed by the video and I said so, but thats not the point

You know good and well help defense was a problem in one of the two basketball games that actually sell and NBA Live wasnt the game.

I'll post Czar's account from the finished game, NOT the demo, but the finished product and again, if you choose to ignore it thats on you, but dont think im not going to call you on that trash

Quote:
Defense

If were talking about player movement and momentum lets talk about the defense while were here. Have you ever wanted to play a game where your defensive mistakes could be taken advantage of ? I'm serious. Where there is no “magic” recovery available you just get beat and have to do better next time ? The Live team brings that to the table in 10. Still ... Live 10 is not perfect.

Initially I was not feeling the defensive controls in Live 10. I just didn't get it. Then I discovered that Czar himself had become subject to cheese tactics... I know family... I'm embarrassed to admit it myself but just hear me out for a minute. In most other hoop games we have been trained that if the guy your guarding goes to his left, to stop him ... You must move your controller to the right. In most instances you can use a defensive assist that will move you to that position automatically.

Well in Live 10 that concept will get you beat like you stole something. To defend well in Live 10 you MUST understand your match-ups on the floor. In addition to that, its helpful to know a thing or two about the individual your guarding. Those individual player momentums play a deciding factor in how well you will be able to stay with the ballhandler. Additionally the defensive system goes further , allowing players with higher on ball defense to be more effective with bodying up the ball handler.

Consider this quote from Mike Wang in his blog :

“The improved locomotion system also plays a huge role in this as great onball defenders will be able to plant and accelerate much faster than a lumbering stiff. So knowing your personnel and when to crowd vs. gap your check is crucial to being successful on defense. “

What this means is that all these scenarios can play out different.

1.Quick guards who are able to change directions quickly will put bigger slower players on skates....
2.An athletic big man in the same situation has a better chance of staying in front but will not be as effective as a an athletic guard or forward with a high on ball defensive rating.
3. An athletic wing with no handles being guarded by a big man playing well off of him may not be able to take advantage of the mismatch.


Think of the strategical battles that will rage between you and the cpu or another human opponent when every player has their own momentum.... I could go on as this is not near as deep as the rabbit hole goes but I just want to illustrate what all is happening and why Live is a game you may want to play before dismissing it as a minor improvement over Nba Live 09.

I'm not done with defense. The cpu offense is masterful at choosing attack angles to the rim. This forces you to defend angles to the basket. If implemented correctly it encourages both the offense and defense to play real basketball. Normally to stop a drive attempt you move your defender to the left or right depending on the direction of the offensive players drive. In Live 10 the closer you are to the offense the quicker you must react to the drive especially if your guarding a player with a great first step.

This would cause you push hard (don't forget our momentum system) in the direction of the drive, which, if you remember our discussion on the different foot plants available, could leave you dead in the water (depending on the match-up) if a quick offensive player decides to change direction.

Naturally, after you get beat a few times either off of the initial drive or the change of direction, the game teaches you to defend the angles. As well as to not be so heavy handed with the left stick on defense. So that when the drive is made you no longer move your defender hard in that direction but back at an angle to protect the basket. Even better, it teaches you not to crowd guys who are great at getting to the basket.

This maybe why you see so many seemingly uncontested jumpers in the demonstration videos. If your too overaggressive challenging the shot you leave yourself open to too many angles and could get beat to the basket. I am eager to get more time in with the game to verify, but from my initial play time it appears Live 10 will make it valuable to play the percentages on defense.

For players with devastating mid-range games this is why you can't stop them in Live 10 with inferior defenders. You can't stop everything baby !!! pick your poison... cut off the drive and force the contested J ( but be careful of pump-fakes and step backs or escape dribbles) or try to take away the jumper and hope your help d can keep him out of the lane.

In last years game the faulty defensive mechanic allowed you as a defender to close the gap on the offensive player with no fear of being beat. In live 10 closing that gap to stop the jumper can be a precarious situation depending on the match-up. Don't play videogames... play basketball. You will not have an anwer for elite players without using a double team to take the ball out of their hands. Its not a cheap feeling either Its just how the game of basketball is designed. Great offense will always beat Great defense. The key then is to not allow “easy” baskets for the superstars and challenge every shot. I will be very interested to know if defensive schemes held over the course of a game can prove effective in deterring stars from getting the ball in their sweet spots.

I wonder if the ego's we digital ballers have built up over the years of playing inferior offensive AI can handle the same truth great NBA defenders face nightly. With the elite players you can not stop them BABY! You can only HOPE to contain them. This was certainly the case during my stay in Canada. Lets hope the AI has the chops to deal with Czar and the Sim Nation after we are all well accustomed to the controls.

You see I saw the blogs and heard people on the Live team make statements like they wanted to make every possession and every game feel different. I thought it was BS till I laid my hands on the sticks. From my limited playing experience. Mission accomplished !

One thing In regards to its imperfection on defense I would love to see the post defense have the ability to cause contact defending the post. As it stands the offense can have an advantage and occassionaly you can be left feeling helpless on defense. This could be a result of my lack of experience with the system. I didn't find this to be the case the entire game but it came up on a few occasions and I thought it prudent to mention. I also wish you could apply more pressure on the ball. My favorite part of defense is trying to stay in front of a great ball handler with a clumsy post player. When you get the demo make the switch off and see what I mean. It hilarious and feels as difficult as it really should be.

One other note that hardly bares mentioning is that there can be an occasional slight slide when your on defense. It did not happen consistent enough in my brief time with the game to be able to put a finger on if it happens in repeatable circumstances or is just a random occurrence. Certainly it is no where near the type of sliding present in both games last year and comparitively speaking would not deserve a mention.
 
# 111 Pared @ 09/09/09 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
I guess this is kinda a question and a comment to the guys that are discussing the defensive rotations in the video. I read somewhere from one of the developers that there are a couple of approaches to making the difficulty settings progressively easier/harder. One would be ratings boost (which I assume is not possible in Live 10 since they don't have shot ratings) and the second would be making the defense less stout on the lower levels. This appears to be the approach that has been taken in Live 10. It seems to me that if the defense rotated and contact was forced on the easier levels (which we've been told are used for these videos) then those levels would not be easy. I guess they could just allow the offensive players to score over good defense but I think that would amount to a ratings boost. So my question is how would the lower levels be easy if the defense rotated to the ball and defended the offense properly? It's like when I play basketball with my kids, to make it easy for them I pretend to be slower than they are and can't jump higher than they can even though I an a foot taller. If I played them with straight up D how would they score? I guess my thought is that in some way the game has to be easier on the lower level and if it's not with weaker poorer rotating D how would you guys make it easier? Let me end this by saying I am not trying to start an argument but I seen you guys discuss this topic in a couple of other threads and it just got me wondering: "Well how else would you make the game easier on lower levels?"
You pick a good choice. Slower to react, less successful in attempts. Standing there is not the answer.

pbz,

If you don't have anything to offer on the video, stop posting.
 
# 112 Jano @ 09/09/09 12:07 PM
This exactly how i interpreted it loadleft the defense is slower with everything on lower difficulties.

This makes the game easier for players that have a hard time getting shots to go in. Not only that but shot timing is easier too.

Your example of you playing with your kids was perfect I think some guys are just not seeing that I guess.

Its been this way in Live for as long as I can remember.

I haven't really payed attention to 2K's rotations so maybe its a little different there and its throwing people off.

But I can definitely tell this is the way it works in Live because the presence of help d is much more prominent on all star and superstar.
 
# 113 Pared @ 09/09/09 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
Pared man come on with this crap dude. At least we do know who has played the game bias aside and unless you want to call the dude a liar im more inclined to believe him along with the other examples I posted. Its complete bull.

I cant believe you're going on with this help defense crap in another trailer when the devs have stated thats EXACTLY what they did.

I dont need to wait for anything because I know someone who doesnt have ties to a game company that played it.

I dont care if you arent wowed by the video because im not wowed by the video and I said so, but thats not the point

You know good and well help defense was a problem in one of the two basketball games that actually sell and NBA Live wasnt the game.

I'll post Czar's account from the finished game, NOT the demo, but the finished product and again, if you choose to ignore it thats on you, but dont think im not going to call you on that trash
Where, in any of that, is help defense discussed? Czar's impressions were about man to man defense and angles. Bodying up individuals and not players coming from the weak side.

You want to keep bringing up "the two games" that actually sell... NBA 2k's help defense is ultimately, bad. It needs work. It's not at the level of Live's defense. Do you feel a little better? What does that have to do with the video, here, that I'm discussing?

As good as the defense was last year, again, I will just have to wait to play the game. Is that really such a bad thing to do?

Perhaps since the videos don't really highlight the in and out game, I'm not seeing it. Which is why I'm waiting for the demo.

I did this same exact thing last year before flying out to play the game in Vancouver. The skepticism was there last year and it's still there. You can't truly experience anything until you've played it. What's the issue then?
 
# 114 loadleft @ 09/09/09 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pared
You pick a good choice. Slower to react, less successful in attempts. Standing there is not the answer.

pbz,

If you don't have anything to offer on the video, stop posting.

OK, I can go with the slower to react, which incidentally might even cause you to stand there if by the time you do react you can only pick up the foul, but "less successful in attempts" would mean lower shot ratings wouldn't it? So it sounds like the choices would have been poorer rotations or slower reactions on defense. You'd choose slower reactions, I can respect that. Thanks for answering, and I can see your point. I guess, now that you suggested it and if I was picking I would choose that too, but I don't consider the other option to be that bad a choice either.
 
# 115 23 @ 09/09/09 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pared
Where, in any of that, is help defense discussed? Czar's impressions were about man to man defense and angles. Bodying up individuals and not players coming from the weak side.

You want to keep bringing up "the two games" that actually sell... NBA 2k's help defense is ultimately, bad. It needs work. It's not at the level of Live's defense. Do you feel a little better? What does that have to do with the video, here, that I'm discussing?

As good as the defense was last year, again, I will just have to wait to play the game. Is that really such a bad thing to do?

Perhaps since the videos don't really highlight the in and out game, I'm not seeing it. Which is why I'm waiting for the demo.

I did this same exact thing last year before flying out to play the game. You can't truly experience anything until you've played it. What's the issue then?

LOL so you're telling me Czar wouldn't have pointed out missing help defense?
 
# 116 Pared @ 09/09/09 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
OK, I can go with the slower to react, which incidentally might even cause you to stand there if by the time you do react you can only pick up the foul, but "less successful in attempts" would mean lower shot ratings wouldn't it? So it sounds like the choices would have been poorer rotations or slower reactions on defense. You'd choose slower reactions, I can respect that. Thanks for answering, and I can see your point. I guess, now that you suggested it and if I was picking I would choose that too, but I don't consider the other option to be that bad a choice either.
That's fair enough. Considering most of us won't play below All-Star, it's a non-issue. I understand they're marketing for all the kids to go "oooh!" but sadly this is all I have to go on. If players at least acknowledge what is going on and don't just stand there on the lower difficulties it wouldn't look so bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
LOL so you're telling me Czar wouldn't have pointed out missing help defense?
He didn't point out ANY help defense in his impressions. Neither good or bad.. the player to player D looks to be improved this year. Has that ever been mentioned (by me)? No, because most players in the NBA can't get by their man. We're bringing back an old conversation we had about this last year. As long as the defense has a way to stop the guy in the perimeter, great. Seems like the Post D could benefit more from that as well.

I'm not trying to vilify the guy, so spare it. I love the eye for detail and his enthusiasm in the other areas of the game that needed it. Asking loaded questions to paint an answer I have into a corner is ridiculous, however.
 
# 117 23 @ 09/09/09 12:24 PM
Whats ridiculous is this. Not only are you tap dancing around my question, but you either think and wont admit, or just dont want to say that Czar would somehow have skipped that part of the game as if it didnt matter when....

He already made a Czarisode about help defense and therefore he would've noticed it in the final version.

What you're doing is going on and on about a trailer's help defense on a lower level and its not that it might be, we know it IS because they told us about it already, and you chose to ignore that to go on about it

I dont know man, im not feeling you on this one at all.
 
# 118 Pared @ 09/09/09 12:37 PM
Tapdancing... that's funny. I'm right here.

loadleft obviously brought up a good discussion. Perhaps you missed it. You should go back and read it. Would be a better way to evolve the conversation instead of this back and forth he said she said.

I feel bad for the Czar. People are holding his word as gospel. The Czarisodes were the culmination of months worth of work and observations. To expect him to catch and bring up EVERYTHING in the few days that he was out there is completely unfair. Why? Because I was in the same exact position last year. You're in awe with how great new mechanics feel. ANYONE who has been in that position can tell you that, easily. You're just enjoying gaming. It's a new game, you have fun... you try and break it down, but ultimately you just want to have fun. It's not fair to expect him to catch everything. And the more expectations rise, the bigger the outlash will be.

It has happened with The Show (and the other guys at Community Day that I was with), Madden (and their community guys) and the path is being followed here.

I would use his impressions as a baseline as we wait for the game to drop, not the "holy grail" being used here. Again: That's not fair to him.
 
# 119 23 @ 09/09/09 12:46 PM
Nobody is taking Czars word as gospel.

Im not talking to loadleft, nor am I talking about The Show.

Im asking you about this lame run on about the help defense. You've played Live a long time and even back in 2004 it had strong help defense, even though it was cheesy so you know it was there because thats the game you played.

I KNOW FOR A FACT help defense was in Live in 2009.

I KNOW FOR A FACT that the devs said they made these videos on lower difficulties to showcase the videos

YOU know too and you're going to act like it was never mentioned

Then I see this post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbleweed
Much like the Live videos that were criticized for not showing any defense, I don't think it's really fair to level that critique on a highlight package trailer meant to show off D-Rose, who is as much of an offensive player as they come. It was probably on lower difficulty to make capturing easier as well..
[quote=Pared;2040147301]
Exactly.


Not only are you trying to dismiss Czar as just playing for fun, you say this in the 2k forums then come right in here and start working on the help defense in a trailer meant to show off driving the lane.

Man tell me what the heck is going on with you
 
# 120 Pared @ 09/09/09 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
Not only are you trying to dismiss Czar as just playing for fun, you say this in the 2k forums then come right in here and start working on the help defense in a trailer meant to show off driving the lane.

Man tell me what the heck is going on with you
Wow, this is straight garbage. Again, misusing my words. "Dismiss Czar?" Are you for real?

Give it a rest, 23. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but the only reason this topic drags on is because the comment can't be brought up as a concern. Anything slightly construed as a negative in this forum gets blown out of proportion by the faithful. It's not even a nit-pick, it's a concern. Is that really hard to understand.

No one said anything ridiculous or over the top. It's a concern. Just like it's a concern for 2k.

Again, what does that have to do with this video in this thread?
 


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