Madden 2010 News Post

Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

08:27 PM - October 8, 2009 by Steve_OS

According to Ian, patch #2 details for Madden NFL 10 will be announced next week.

Quote:


	"We are wrapping up the 2nd title update for Madden 10 - lots of good improvements, additions, fixes. Look for a list of stuff next week."

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Member Comments

# 161 Brando70 @ 10/12/09 05:45 PM

Great googly moogly, 20+ pages on the announcement that there will be an announcement about the patch. At this rate the discussion the actual patch will generate will clog all of the Intertubes.

Once consoles became online-ready, patches became a part of console gaming. If sports developers took the route of taking 3-4 years between games to perfect everything, all of you would be begging for them to release the newest version sooner.

Madden deserves criticism -- it should be further along than it has come on this generation, and compared to even other EA games it is lacking in many areas. But it definitely made more progress this year than it had in the previous years combined.

If people think it sucks and want to say it sucks, that's fine. I just can't get over how bent out of shape people get about a game. You would think Ian and company came into your house and farted in your oatmeal.

The fact that they are patching the game shows that the Madden team want to at least try and improve the experience of the game. Company's that don't care don't take steps like this, and Madden has likely made most of the money it's going to make this year, so it's not like this is a financially beneficial move. These patches are being done to address issues with the game and complaints/suggestions from consumers.

You may think that the game should be better when it is released or that the patches should do more or come out sooner. Regardless, the fact remains that there are people working to try and make Madden a better experience for those who have purchased it. That effort is commendable even if the results are open to debate.

# 162 ABR173rd @ 10/12/09 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnkorean


	Yes, I do realize that there is an exclusive license to NFL-based games. I also realize that there is no exclusive license to the game of football generally (See Blitz: The League), and I also realize that just because I want something doesn't mean that I'm entitled to having other people make it for me while I sit back and contribute nothing. Yes, you pay $60 for it, but that doesn't create a legal or moral obligation for EA to make the game the way you want it, especially when the majority of consumers (parents of bratty children, as you yourself suggest) are perfectly happy paying $60 for the product as is. They put out a product; you buy it; end of transaction. If you're looking for a perfect NFL sim game and the only product on the market is imperfect, then why are you wasting your money on a product you don't want and then complaining about it? You knew what you were getting into, and if you didn't test it before you bought it, that's your fault. For the record, I am not an EA fanboy; I hate EA and the stupid exclusive license. But I also recognize that while this product is not perfect, it's worth $60, especially with free patches that can address a number of problems (many of which don't affect me since I don't play online). It's certainly cheaper than the alternative of developing a competing product, and I'm against the position that many on these forums have taken ("do more work for me and increase your expenses in order to accommodate a niche market that has already paid for the product, but charge the same price as you do currently. Otherwise, I'll buy next year's version and complain about that one too.") Imagine the following scenario: you go into a restaurant and order the top selling dish on the menu. You summon the head chef and tell him that the dish should be perfect and complain that it lacks black truffle shavings and caviar. You tell him the next time you come to his restaurant you expect to see these changes made, and you expect to pay the same price. How realistic does that sound?

Your last scenario doesn't even make sense....According to that scenario the meal is served to you as described and perfectly cooked but your asking for extras....The real comparable scenario here is you order a filet and when the server asks you how you would like it prepared you say rare and end up getting served a hamburger instead of steak....

The product did get released broken in some regards,the calculation of tackles,players morphing,I just played against the seahawks in franchise yesterday and there was an injury to a WR the WR's jersey on the field said Branch but when the injury summary popped up on the screen it said it was burelson so I'm thinking okay the guys jersey said Branch but it was Burlseon because he was actually supposed to be in the game for that play,very next play who catches a TD pass but Burelson.Thats not asking for caviar thats asking for the game to be how its supposed to be.If it wasn't advertised as mysterious guess who is actually injured, injury's happening in the game then it better not have any...
I'm not a Madden ***** I have purchased Madden every year since the Sega days, I would say the game itself has taken the first step in utilizing the next Gen systems especially for PS3 but it still has something to fix.I'm hoping for an Engine change next year theirs to many good engines being utilized for Madden to not be on the leading edge as far as graphics go and what better way to showcase an engine but in a sports game were you have millions of animations going on at once and players hitting and crashing and bouncing off of each other.And god dam EA if you can't create the best engine for Madden then go out and buy it!

# 163 19 @ 10/12/09 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando70


	Great googly moogly, 20+ pages on the announcement that there will be an announcement about the patch. At this rate the discussion the actual patch will generate will clog all of the Intertubes.

My sentimonies exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando70


	Once consoles became online-ready, patches became a part of console gaming. If sports developers took the route of taking 3-4 years between games to perfect everything, all of you would be begging for them to release the newest version sooner.

Agreed. Why don't we just go back to the PS2 days where what you bought is what you got. C'mon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando70


	Madden deserves criticism -- it should be further along than it has come on this generation, and compared to even other EA games it is lacking in many areas. But it definitely made more progress this year than it had in the previous years combined. If people think it sucks and want to say it sucks, that's fine. I just can't get over how bent out of shape people get about a game. You would think Ian and company came into your house and farted in your oatmeal.

Many people take it that way in this generation of entitlement. You know who you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando70


	fact that they are patching the game shows that the Madden team want to at least try and improve the experience of the game. Company's that don't care don't take steps like this, and Madden has likely made most of the money it's going to make this year, so it's not like this is a financially beneficial move. These patches are being done to address issues with the game and complaints/suggestions from consumers. You may think that the game should be better when it is released or that the patches should do more or come out sooner. Regardless, the fact remains that there are people working to try and make Madden a better experience for those who have purchased it. That effort is commendable even if the results are open to debate.

Both EA and Sony have kept me as a customer by patching games, and yes it is annoying to buy a game and not be able to play it right that very second, but just find another game to play or god forbid go outside and do something, it's a video game folks. Nothing more, nothing less.

# 164 johnkorean @ 10/12/09 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirborneRanger1


	Your last scenario doesn't even make sense....According to that scenario the meal is served to you as described and perfectly cooked but your asking for extras....The real comparable scenario here is you order a filet and when the server asks you how you would like it prepared you say rare and end up getting served a hamburger instead of steak....

I don't really like analogies since there's always too many elements for 2 scenarios to really be comparable. My analogy doesn't work and neither does yours.

Basically, my argument is this:

1. We all had the opportunity to rent the game before we bought it. No one held a gun to our heads and told us to buy the game at the midnight release.

2. Just because we want something doesn't entitle us to it. It is not EA's responsibility to make the perfect Madden just because we want a perfect Madden. The vast majority of customers are more than happy to play through the glitches and never even download the patches because they don't care. It is this niche minority that is asking for a cost-ineffective level of detail in order to satisfy the minority's belief that they deserve someone else's hard work.

# 165 BlueNGold @ 10/12/09 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAKE4742


	Yep, alot of the complaints ARE warranted. I'm all for patches, but even moreso for better developers. I just don't understand how an entire staff works on a game, for even just a year, and a gamer can come along after that year and say "the blocking is bad in this game", and the devs say "Hmmmm, I think you're right". WTF?!!! WTH were you doing that entire year? Let me guess, it took alot of time and energy to get in handtowels?

Well that's a big part of the problem. People bitched and moaned for years to get handtowels, team colored cleats, etc, etc and now that they are in the game people turn around and say "why did you put that in? You should have been working on gameplay!" So its basically a lose, lose for the dev team because people ask for one thing, they put that in and then people complain about them spending time on that.

Another thing is probably 99% of us have no idea how difficult it is to make a game, let alone a sports game or more specifically a football game. This is, imo, a big reason why Ian stopped posting as frequently on these boards. You work your *** off for a year and then people go and **** all over your hard work when they really don't know how difficult it is to do what the dev team does.

# 166 redsfan4life @ 10/12/09 07:49 PM

In my humble opinion this years game is a great improvement. Last year I played Madden 09 on PS3 for about a week. This year I'm still playing and enjoying it quite a bit, still waiting to hear about the patch but even without it I'd enjoy this game. Kudos to the new development team, they got this ship on the right track.

# 167 gabs485 @ 10/12/09 08:10 PM

I have real respect for the team, this is the best madden in a long time. What I don't understand is that things that were not broken in previous years are suddenly broken now. E.g. stadium specific stadium, qb real voices, franchise stats. Player progression, catching and running animations. Also the fact that suction blocking has not been fix since the genesis version is very frustrating. But I do reckon this year version is the best since 2005

# 168 mike24forever @ 10/12/09 08:15 PM

[quote=johnkorean;2040316172]I don't really like analogies since there's always too many elements for 2 scenarios to really be comparable. My analogy doesn't work and neither does yours.

Basically, my argument is this:

1. We all had the opportunity to rent the game before we bought it. No one held a gun to our heads and told us to buy the game at the midnight release.

2. Just because we want something doesn't entitle us to it. It is not EA's responsibility to make the perfect Madden just because we want a perfect Madden. The vast majority of customers are more than happy to play through the glitches and never even download the patches because they don't care. It is this niche minority that is asking for a cost-ineffective level of detail in order to satisfy the minority's belief that they deserve someone else's hard work.

Well said. Ever since the developers have been openly posting here (OS), the number of new members complaining about the game have increased dramatically. That is why I agree so much with what you said. Everyone has a choice to buy the game or not. Just because there is no alternative does not warrant the complaining and childish rants we have seen on these boards. We are fortunate to have developers listening, let alone patches for the game. That being said, I would love to there to be no need for patches, they have become a norm for the industry. Not just sport games.

# 169 LionsFanNJ @ 10/12/09 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PYA-MUSTANG86


	Who said that GTA IV didn't have a title update? If I'm not mistaken didn't they actually add a few more campeigns and stories to the game through DLC? So after you beat the original you could just DL pretty much a whole new game. Yes please do some research before posting. Well anyways, any word on if they're going to fix/add players' draft info? Kind of pointless to have gems and busts if you never know who is a gem and bust after that particular draft. Also any word on online franchise improvements? And the offline stat engine, especially having a total total tackle stat. In real life they combine a players solo and assisted tackles to determine their total tackles. If you're going to add a feature at least get said feature right. This was my main concern when I 1st heard about the assisted tackle stat, was that they would screw up how those stats were kept, and that's exactly what happened.

Nothing is getting fixed in the patch.

# 170 BlueNGold @ 10/12/09 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAKE4742


	It certainly isn't the communities fault, no matter what. Either EA knows what NFL football is or don't. Why would they let the community decide what a NFL football game is, when football is....football? Of course we like handtowels (because they're a part of NFL football). Of course we like competent blocking (because it's a part of NFL football). Of course we don't like Robo QB (because it's not a part of NFL football). You either know the game, or you don't. Who really playtests this game, and says "yep, WE see that on sunday!"? That 2-in-1 tackle?! NOONE sees that on sunday! Common sense should tell EA, of course we want certain things. We want everything a part of NFL football! Duh. But, what football devs would really make handtowels higher priority over gameplay. 2K5 didn't, and is considered by most on this board as still the best. So, EA is doing this to themselves. They can take advice from whomever they wish (even OSers), but, it's gonna bite them in the ***. It's a not a lose lose situation IF they just focus on football and not sales.

I never did say it was the communities' fault, I was saying how people beg and beg for something, get it and then its like "oh, who cares about that now that it is in." Also, alot of posters on here (typically the ones that seem to join OS just to hate on Madden with no constructive criticism) are just piling on with all the hate which probably was the reason Ian left these boards or at least doesn't post as frequently.

About EA knowing football or not, who are we to say if they do? We don't know that. What I was trying to say in my post about the difficulty of making a game was that yeah, it sounds simple to just go in and say "Let's fix the blocking" but it is probably a hell of alot easier said than done. I can't imagine what its like having to work on all that code and stuff when if you do one thing wrong, it messes up half the game.

# 171 Spanky @ 10/12/09 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanley roper


	Tell that to the people of SCEA who made the best baseball game ever, The Show. Tell that to NBA 2k devs. Tell that to the EA Soccer, NHL guys. Tell that to Fight Night devs. go ahead.

Excellent point. There are so many good to great games out now. Every sport, except football. I'm guessing it's a little more difficult to replicate football with so many different elements in the game, but I could be wrong.

That said, I've enjoyed Madden 10 immensely, major improvement over last year's debacle. I managed to work around or overlook the major flaws to have fun games, but the first patch has taken some of the fun factor away with a bunch of well-documented minor annoyances and one major headache -- easy KO returns for user and CPU.

I'm really hoping the second patch fixes most of the bugs without creating other issues. If it doesn't, I will cry like a baby.

# 172 BlueNGold @ 10/12/09 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanley roper


	Tell that to the people of SCEA who made the best baseball game ever, The Show. Tell that to NBA 2k devs. Tell that to the EA Soccer, NHL guys. Tell that to Fight Night devs. go ahead.

Yeah and are all of those games perfect? No. FIFA 10 seems to be getting a bunch of complaints from the few posts I've read on that forum. Look at the list 2K is working on for the first patch on NBA 2K10. I can't speak for The Show since I don't have a PS3 or like baseball. NHL and Fight Night are the best sports games this year but NHL had a year off before making the jump to next gen and Fight Night had the benefit of remaking basically the entire engine and having an extra year off after Round 3.

# 173 alliance4g63 @ 10/12/09 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNGold


	About EA knowing football or not, who are we to say if they do? We don't know that. What I was trying to say in my post about the difficulty of making a game was that yeah, it sounds simple to just go in and say "Let's fix the blocking" but it is probably a hell of alot easier said than done. I can't imagine what its like having to work on all that code and stuff when if you do one thing wrong, it messes up half the game.

I could careless how difficult it is. I'm sure they are compensated well for the field that they are in. And I guarantee you Madden is not the at the top of the list of the most difficult games to program. You may have an argument for the the time frame, but again I will just bring up games of the past on the same schedule that were stellar.

And I'm sorry but their game is a reflection of their football knowledge. The questions they asked the community is a reflection of their football knowledge. 2k never asked how blocking should be, how passing should be or if the uniform colors are right. You know why? It's really simple, turn on the T.V and watch some damn football. Some of you guys are so blind it's actually disturbing.

# 174 johnkorean @ 10/12/09 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alliance4g63


	I could careless how difficult it is. I'm sure they are compensated well for the field that they are in. And I guarantee you Madden is not the at the top of the list of the most difficult games to program. You may have an argument for the the time frame, but again I will just bring up games of the past on the same schedule that were stellar. And I'm sorry but their game is a reflection of their football knowledge. The questions they asked the community is a reflection of their football knowledge. 2k never asked how blocking should be, how passing should be or if the uniform colors are right. You know why? It's really simple, turn on the T.V and watch some damn football. Some of you guys are so blind it's actually disturbing.

You're right. These guys are highly compensated for what they're doing. So why would they do more work if they're not going to be compensated more than they already are?

# 175 SoxFan01605 @ 10/12/09 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanley roper


	Tell that to the people of SCEA who made the best baseball game ever, The Show. Tell that to NBA 2k devs. Tell that to the EA Soccer, NHL guys. Tell that to Fight Night devs. go ahead.

Happily. And I'm sure most of the developers would agree it's hard for them as well

The Show: An entire mode (RTTS) has a debilitating glitch that can crash it beyond recovery that was never completely isolated and fixed (despite THREE patches

).

-Franchise mode has numerous glitches (most around staff and the DL).

-People, like with nearly every sport game, complain the game cheats (not saying I agree, because I don't, but it gets the criticism...which means there are aspects that people feel needs addressing).

NBA 2K: Association has glitches-broken training if you do it manually is one of the bigger ones.

-Post-play has been a gripe for awhile now, online has apparently had issues, etc.

FIFA: Manager mode has been hit with a list of glitches so long, I stopped reading it before I was done...lol. There are defensive positioning problems, Be A Pro has progression issues, goalies have braindead moments, etc.

NHL: Franchise mode's stat tracking is a mess, FA and trade logic is goofed, and the mode is bare-bones again.

Defensive and Goalie AI has suspect moments and there are physics issues, freezes, etc to consider as well. Also, to be fair and consistent with the arguments always presented here, many feel the game isn't "sim" hockey, but more fast-paced. I can't intelligently opine on that personally, as I'm no hockey buff, but it is said plenty.

Fight Night: I've played this one the least and haven't played at all since it was patched, but AI, clipping, freezing, and various online glitches were listed from the jump. May be fixed now, I dunno.

Now, all of these range from good-to great, I agree. But if you look at just the negatives you'd probably run screaming before ever firing them up to find out.

The point is these seem to overlooked in ways Madden's glitches never are. I really think most of it is based on reputation over recent years. Some are riding high reputation, some are riding the level of recent years' improvement. All are given the benefit of the doubt regardless of some very comparable flaws.

None of this is to say that benefit of the doubt isn't warranted. Neither is it to say that Madden hasn't earned the scrutiny it gets over their time on this generation of consoles. The only point is, if we are going to list frames of reference, lets get all the cards on the table.

Madden is held to a higher standard in part because of the sport it represents, and in-part because it owns exclusive rights to represent that sports dominant and most popular brand. Because of this, they can't afford (like both FIFA AND NHL did) to really rebuild. They have to do it more transitionally. Add in the mess it made of itself and the admittedly (meaning Ian, Phill, and I'm sure other EA guys admit) poor decision-making in the transition to the current consoles, and it's creates a hole to dig out of as well.

I think the transition has started working (hints last year, more realization for 10) and the team has the right focus and direction. It just takes time. Yes, before the obvious is stated, they've already collectively had time. It's perfectly reasonable for people to jump ship and not put up with the transition. It's also perfectly reasonable to point out flaws in hopes they get fixed.

Let's just not pretend it's any more "broken" and patch-dependent than the vast majority of games available on these consoles, particulalry those with comparable dev cycles. "Playable", aside from stability issues, is entirely subjective.

/End Book.

EDIT: and I'm sorry it's so long, but I don't plan on adding to much more to that...so no need to worry about a repeat performance in this thread at least.

# 176 BlueNGold @ 10/12/09 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAKE4742


	Understood. And my points is, who cares what people are begging for, and forgetting the next minute. And who cares about Ian being here, really? That's why as a developer, you shouldn't overly use a message board as advice on any game. Doing so only shows how far your going to get sales, not get the game right. To get the game right, one would just look at football. To get sales, one would consider what the community wants. If it's a game not based on something in real life, then fine. But, if it's supposedly based on real life, and still not close to accurate, then someone is just too focused on trying to please everyone, instead of making an authentic product-something that represents that real life activity accurately. Is there anyone in any of Madden's meetings that said "Speed Threshold? What do we need a Speed Threshold for? Isn't that what the ratings are for? Howabout we allow ST only on rookie and Pro, then? And we'll make All-Pro the "realistic" setting?" Or something to that effect. But, noooo, EA didn't do that. They didn't make ANY setting realistic. Rookie and Pro are too easy. All-Pro and All-Madden are too cheesy. So, the entire game fails. By trying to please everyone, instead of just making an authentic NFL football game, it all fails miserably. Furthermore, alot more devs are catering to a casual crowd. Trying to make them feel "comfortable". Adding in little assists, slowing the games down, etc. It's about sales. But, it's going to bite them in the butt, guaranteed. Take away the hardcore crowd, who enjoy realism, skills, and challenging gameplay, and gaming will fall, trust. EA is lucky to have the license, because with this generation of consoles, came a much more adult, and knowledgeble generation of gamers-who would (and do) recognize Madden's very shortcomings when compared to last gen. Now, some (even Ian) might say that this year was focused more on the hardcore crowd. I'm not so sure, with the way the game plays. It feels like lies, wrapped in blatant halfway sim gameplay. Because there's alot of things in the game that didn't have/shouldn't have to be in. Which brings us back to square one. Either EA was focused more on sales (still), or are just really stupid when it comes to NFL football.

Nice post. I agree on most of it.

The unfortunate thing is we (the hardcore/sim crowd) are the minority so more often than not the features are going to be aimed at the casual crowd.

# 177 BlueNGold @ 10/13/09 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxFan01605


	Now, all of these range from good-to great, I agree. But if you look at just the negatives you'd probably run screaming before ever firing them up to find out. The point is these seem to overlooked in ways Madden's glitches never are. I really think most of it is based on reputation over recent years. Some are riding high reputation, some are riding the level of recent years' improvement. All are given the benefit of the doubt regardless of some very comparable flaws. None of this is to say that benefit of the doubt isn't warranted. Neither is it to say that Madden hasn't earned the scrutiny it gets over their time on this generation of consoles. The only point is, if we are going to list frames of reference, lets get all the cards on the table. Madden is held to a higher standard in part because of the sport it represents, and in-part because it owns exclusive rights to represent that sports dominant and most popular brand. Because of this, they can't afford (like both FIFA AND NHL did) to really rebuild. They have to do it more transitionally. Add in the mess it made of itself and the admittedly (meaning Ian, Phill, and I'm sure other EA guys admit) poor decision-making in the transition to the current consoles, and it's creates a hole to dig out of as well. I think the transition has started working (hints last year, more realization for 10) and the team has the right focus and direction. It just takes time. Yes, before the obvious is stated, they've already collectively had time. It's perfectly reasonable for people to jump ship and not put up with the transition. It's also perfectly reasonable to point out flaws in hopes they get fixed. Let's just not pretend it's any more "broken" and patch-dependent than the vast majority of games available on these consoles, particulalry those with comparable dev cycles. "Playable", aside from stability issues, is entirely subjective. /End Book. EDIT: and I'm sorry it's so long, but I don't plan on adding to much more to that...so no need to worry about a repeat performance in this thread at least.

I agree 100% on the bolded part. It seems like Madden's glitches are 10x more magnified than the next game.

# 178 huskerwr38 @ 10/13/09 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNGold


	I agree 100% on the bolded part. It seems like Madden's glitches are 10x more magnified than the next game.

Yea, you know why?!?! Because football is the MOST popular sport in America and we have ONE freaking video game to represent that. That is why Madden is under a magnifying glass. It's like EA has the ball and everyone else is on the sideline (fans and other gamemakers) watching and pointing out EVERY little mistake because they are the only game in town!

# 179 chevrock22 @ 10/13/09 01:34 AM

Set the packer uniforms straight with the Reebok logos placed correctly.

# 180 Tyrant8RDFL @ 10/13/09 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNGold


	Yeah and are all of those games perfect? No. FIFA 10 seems to be getting a bunch of complaints from the few posts I've read on that forum. Look at the list 2K is working on for the first patch on NBA 2K10. I can't speak for The Show since I don't have a PS3 or like baseball. NHL and Fight Night are the best sports games this year but NHL had a year off before making the jump to next gen and Fight Night had the benefit of remaking basically the entire engine and having an extra year off after Round 3.

It's not about any game being perfect. The sport in real life isn't played perfect so saying this makes no sense to help your argument.

The thing gamers look for is a solid game. That's all not perfect.

There are some sports games out there that are solid.

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