07:15 PM - June 9, 2010 by Admiral50NBA Elite 11 News Post
07:15 PM - June 9, 2010 by Admiral50NBA Elite 11 Videos
Member Comments
# 61
Greene_Flash03 @ 06/10/10 02:01 AM
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http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-gamespot.html
I don't understand this skill thing either. I agree with Statums comment, and in reply to Green_flash., if ratings have anything to do with it, doesn't that go against the skill needed?
The whole skill vs luck argument is pointless if ratings has anything to do with shooting, laying ups and dunks, imo.
The whole skill vs luck argument is pointless if ratings has anything to do with shooting, laying ups and dunks, imo.
# 65
Behindshadows @ 06/10/10 05:39 AM
Jumpshot is just plain ugly. I know it's early, but I need to see more. They need to stop making videos or ruff edges, it's discouraging.
Especially on a site like Gametrailers.com. That site is followed deeply of EA Sports haters and people who are fed up with them.
They need to do a better job of marketing this title and leave Live's name out of every piece of it.
Especially on a site like Gametrailers.com. That site is followed deeply of EA Sports haters and people who are fed up with them.
They need to do a better job of marketing this title and leave Live's name out of every piece of it.
# 66
tabulaRasa @ 06/10/10 05:52 AM
All I see is EA propaganda 101. They even tried to add the Littman effect.
Wang left EA because they arenīt SIM minded....
Name change and propaganda? Hm....
Wang left EA because they arenīt SIM minded....
Name change and propaganda? Hm....
# 67
JulesMendoza @ 06/10/10 06:06 AM
"Most realistic basketball game you'll ever play"..... really huh? i hope so....
# 68
idrisguitar @ 06/10/10 06:53 AM
call me cynacil. but this all seems like a marketing ploy. the 1 on 1 gameplay means nothing. nba live 10 looked beautiful to watch in the gameplay videos pre release last year, then we all played it and realised that it was simply fundamentally wrong.
a lot of what they said in the video was meaningless marketing talk. trying to basically talk down and insult all of the features they have finally improved in order to make these improvements seem massive is a simple but effective ploy.
also somone said in this topic that we have got the bad end of the stick this generation with basketball games and i would have to totally agree. (along with the nfl crowd of course, cause madden is the epitome of a ripoff)
nba 2k and nba live are just upscaled last generation games, and 5 years in, that is just inexcusable, its actually atrocious when you think about it. nhl, and fifa from ea went through evolutions because they had to in order to complete, and they turned into two of the best sports simulations ever made. so for that i do have hope for elit, but i wont get hyped like i did with live 10, and will wait for a demo.
real time physics, 100% control, and realistic AI behaviour should all be things we should have at this point. but BOTH 2k and EA have been lazy in the nba game front and we have not come close to this. fingers crossed ea make the first jump like they did with nhl and fifa, and leave 2k in the dust, because 2k have milked their great last gen engine for way to long and i personally am fed up with the incomplete glitchy games they put out every year now.
a lot of what they said in the video was meaningless marketing talk. trying to basically talk down and insult all of the features they have finally improved in order to make these improvements seem massive is a simple but effective ploy.
also somone said in this topic that we have got the bad end of the stick this generation with basketball games and i would have to totally agree. (along with the nfl crowd of course, cause madden is the epitome of a ripoff)
nba 2k and nba live are just upscaled last generation games, and 5 years in, that is just inexcusable, its actually atrocious when you think about it. nhl, and fifa from ea went through evolutions because they had to in order to complete, and they turned into two of the best sports simulations ever made. so for that i do have hope for elit, but i wont get hyped like i did with live 10, and will wait for a demo.
real time physics, 100% control, and realistic AI behaviour should all be things we should have at this point. but BOTH 2k and EA have been lazy in the nba game front and we have not come close to this. fingers crossed ea make the first jump like they did with nhl and fifa, and leave 2k in the dust, because 2k have milked their great last gen engine for way to long and i personally am fed up with the incomplete glitchy games they put out every year now.
# 69
Live_4real @ 06/10/10 07:43 AM
I understand gamers talking about the pass, all the Live/2k being lazy, etc, etc, letīs be real, this thread is about a video, It should not make anyone jump into conclusions about the game, it is too early
You can say that you are not impressed, or maybe you are, but you canīt say that all of what EA has said about the game is hype, and then because you see videos like this, you say the game will suck.
Talking about the game, real time physics should always be in any game, as a matter of fact, in sports game, it is even more important, I wanīt to have 100% control of what my players do(or close to it), because if I make a mistake I will be pissed, but I know I was the one that did it, not the cpu
When I see people say that what kills Live 10 is lack of animations, In my opinion, what kill sports games, and Basketball games in particular, is animations, because when player A is making an Y animation and player B is making X animation, when they collide in mid-air, they should do another animation right??? After that my question will be, what can the user do, when the animations are happening??? nothing
The only moment I will accept having animations in Nba is when the players dive for the ball when they are going out of bounds, because there you should not have any control, because NBA players when diving for the ball, they donīt have any control on where the ball goes next
Having said that, what I see in this video of improvement over Live 10(without having played so much time as maybe all of you had) Is "supposedly" bigger control of what the user do to impact the actual play, and smoother player movements.
For those of you that critic the visual of the game, I will say, what in my opinion EA, will do, this year, the gameplay will have a major improvement, because that, is what maintained them at the top of basketball games, sort of like what happens in PES over FIFA, gameplay, and next year, they will make huge improvements in visual, crowd, etc
That is what i think, they will do, because in 1 year it is almost impossible to make huge strides in gameplay like Live needed to do, to put the game in another level, and make a huge upgrade in visuals, like they clearly needed to do to even to compete, like they need to do, in my opinion
Pleasure for being a part of the community
PeAcE
You can say that you are not impressed, or maybe you are, but you canīt say that all of what EA has said about the game is hype, and then because you see videos like this, you say the game will suck.
Talking about the game, real time physics should always be in any game, as a matter of fact, in sports game, it is even more important, I wanīt to have 100% control of what my players do(or close to it), because if I make a mistake I will be pissed, but I know I was the one that did it, not the cpu
When I see people say that what kills Live 10 is lack of animations, In my opinion, what kill sports games, and Basketball games in particular, is animations, because when player A is making an Y animation and player B is making X animation, when they collide in mid-air, they should do another animation right??? After that my question will be, what can the user do, when the animations are happening??? nothing
The only moment I will accept having animations in Nba is when the players dive for the ball when they are going out of bounds, because there you should not have any control, because NBA players when diving for the ball, they donīt have any control on where the ball goes next
Having said that, what I see in this video of improvement over Live 10(without having played so much time as maybe all of you had) Is "supposedly" bigger control of what the user do to impact the actual play, and smoother player movements.
For those of you that critic the visual of the game, I will say, what in my opinion EA, will do, this year, the gameplay will have a major improvement, because that, is what maintained them at the top of basketball games, sort of like what happens in PES over FIFA, gameplay, and next year, they will make huge improvements in visual, crowd, etc
That is what i think, they will do, because in 1 year it is almost impossible to make huge strides in gameplay like Live needed to do, to put the game in another level, and make a huge upgrade in visuals, like they clearly needed to do to even to compete, like they need to do, in my opinion
Pleasure for being a part of the community
PeAcE
Looks great to me thus far. The graphics and the player movement already look better. Can't wait!
I loved the fluidity of the moves, especially when they were chained together.
I see both sides of the argument regarding jump shooting. I'm somewhere in the middle.
I see both sides of the argument regarding jump shooting. I'm somewhere in the middle.
Like the feel of it. It already looks and moves better than last year's version imo.
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People talk about marketing ploys yet they're eating up what was marketed by 2k upon his departure. It honestly doesn't even matter. Guys are getting these games with the politics these companies play with confused. And that's something you should avoid.
Sometimes I think if Mike were working on golf we'd have guys hitting the links a bit more.. .lol...
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Games in the past have not tied in the user's aim with a stick. The shot stick... in all it's glory (you guys know I love it) has always been a timing mechanism for jumpshots. It's essentially a tap-hold-release. Your release dictates if a shot has a high or a low % of success, and that ties into ratings. No matter if it were the X button (360) or move the shot stick down and release, it was all about timing. Of course, fadeaways, all that other stuff lessened the success window... but there WERE shots were it was completely % based as opposed to user controlled. Want an example? Look at the post game and the up and unders - no timing necessary; You do the move and hope it goes in. Mind you... I've never had an issue with this system.
However, Elite's system adds some more depth to that. Direct up is a straight shot and left/right means you actually miss left/right. Timing is still there, but a long hold means you shoot long, and an early release means you hit the front of the rim. Success is still determined by the player's real life numbers, but that impacts the "success zone" of the player. You have a higher degree of success with a shooter like Ray Allen or Okur, as opposed to say... Devin Harris.
The key here is it is more than just timing and defensive presence. It is timing, placement of the stick and defensive presence. And you control the success. If you compare the two systems, Elite is more skillful (ugh, hate using marketing-speak).
To me, the video proved it's point, those animations weren't canned in the least, and yet, they were still pretty smooth. When Jennings drove into Durant's chest, that's a suction waiting to happen, but he was able to spin out REALISTICALLY and move in for the layup. That block wouldn't be controlled, probably woulda led to that mid-air collision animation, or you just whiff completely. I see those two especially as positives. Stuff like Jennings is a righty, don't really care at this point.
As far as the shot control, based on the way it was described, I like what I read. It wasn't "luck" necessarily as to whether you made or missed, but it was kinda luck on where you were going to miss. You could argue it's not really that important how you miss a shot, but for something like late game FTs, maybe this could be big, being able to miss to a spot rather than kinda arbitrarily. And havin the whole sweet spot based on shooting ratings, still keeps that element in affect. I'm curious to see how this goes, I'm cautiously optimistic on what they're doing here.
Should be a fun few months finding out more and more on this, cause if done right, this could change b-ball games going forward.
As far as the shot control, based on the way it was described, I like what I read. It wasn't "luck" necessarily as to whether you made or missed, but it was kinda luck on where you were going to miss. You could argue it's not really that important how you miss a shot, but for something like late game FTs, maybe this could be big, being able to miss to a spot rather than kinda arbitrarily. And havin the whole sweet spot based on shooting ratings, still keeps that element in affect. I'm curious to see how this goes, I'm cautiously optimistic on what they're doing here.
Should be a fun few months finding out more and more on this, cause if done right, this could change b-ball games going forward.
# 75
Behindshadows @ 06/10/10 10:07 AM
I noticed after watching for the 10th time or so...That the footplanting is better, along with the movement of the feet on the defensive end of it.
Great movement overall and no sliding.
Great movement overall and no sliding.
Gentlemen did anyone else notice the bad blend into the euro ? I hear all the its early talk but the game will be finished in 2 2.5 months right ? Looking at that euro has me thinking we shouldn't get too carried away with the "real rime physics" until we can get a good look at it over TIME.
IF the system is just choosing the right animation in real time as opposed to capturing the whole drive that may not be that different from the competition.
The key between them may not be real time vesus animation based but actually turn out to be whose implementation of their current technology is more like real basketball.
So I wouldn't just assume that since they say its real time that makes it better. It may be better than anything we saw LAST YEAR.
One game may start to look more fluid and real and one may have air tight controls but not look realistic because the cpu is blending animations regardless of whether a real person could do them or not.
Please watch that euro again. A human would not be able to shoot that shot like that with momentum and off that leg BUT it did blend smoothly.
also the spin off of the defense was nice but what about the fact that he took off with left hand dribbling to his right. Then his spin off the defense was again tremendous control but notice zero reaction from the d when the spin occured. If we spin body to body your going to react because that is what makes the spin effective is your body bouncing off mine creating space not just allowing me to immediatly blend into another move.
Again just looking at the video for what its worth yes its early but at the same time the game will be done mid late august. its not like they have 6 months to add stuff.
To our community day guys were you able to see any 5 v 5 and play 5 v 5 or was it all one on one ? I know you may not be able to comment on that but at least say if you played 5 on 5 if you can.
Oh yeah loved the fact that the offensive player moved like he had weight and that hesitation spin move really highlighted the fact that you can do what you want when you want. loved seeing that !!!
IF the system is just choosing the right animation in real time as opposed to capturing the whole drive that may not be that different from the competition.
The key between them may not be real time vesus animation based but actually turn out to be whose implementation of their current technology is more like real basketball.
So I wouldn't just assume that since they say its real time that makes it better. It may be better than anything we saw LAST YEAR.
One game may start to look more fluid and real and one may have air tight controls but not look realistic because the cpu is blending animations regardless of whether a real person could do them or not.
Please watch that euro again. A human would not be able to shoot that shot like that with momentum and off that leg BUT it did blend smoothly.
also the spin off of the defense was nice but what about the fact that he took off with left hand dribbling to his right. Then his spin off the defense was again tremendous control but notice zero reaction from the d when the spin occured. If we spin body to body your going to react because that is what makes the spin effective is your body bouncing off mine creating space not just allowing me to immediatly blend into another move.
Again just looking at the video for what its worth yes its early but at the same time the game will be done mid late august. its not like they have 6 months to add stuff.
To our community day guys were you able to see any 5 v 5 and play 5 v 5 or was it all one on one ? I know you may not be able to comment on that but at least say if you played 5 on 5 if you can.
Oh yeah loved the fact that the offensive player moved like he had weight and that hesitation spin move really highlighted the fact that you can do what you want when you want. loved seeing that !!!
Czar,
Why was it when you had the game last year with all the loss of control during the two-player animations and all the issues Live had last year... it wasn't a problem when you viewed the game early... but this stuff is?
The game is still early with the new tech. being implemented. It's not all roses but to dissect video like that... we always talk about how guys do that to 2k's game year in and year out... yet here we are, doing it on the other side of the fence.
Just take the video as a work in progress... that's exactly what it is. C'mon... when 2k dropped their demo last year it was a terrible reflection of what the final game was like. These are moving targets and you can't have a stationary bullseye.
Why was it when you had the game last year with all the loss of control during the two-player animations and all the issues Live had last year... it wasn't a problem when you viewed the game early... but this stuff is?
The game is still early with the new tech. being implemented. It's not all roses but to dissect video like that... we always talk about how guys do that to 2k's game year in and year out... yet here we are, doing it on the other side of the fence.
Just take the video as a work in progress... that's exactly what it is. C'mon... when 2k dropped their demo last year it was a terrible reflection of what the final game was like. These are moving targets and you can't have a stationary bullseye.
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That is really interesting. So since you have the benefit of seeing a whole new game a year after I did you can look back retroactively and make snide comments about what I did or did not see in live 10.
Very interesting. Not taking into account that my vision of live 10 was in comparison to live 09 and 2k9. Hinsight is indeed 20/20
I find that to be a completely misguided evaluation of what I saw and an attempt to shut me up as it were. I think if we look at anyones comparisons of a game last year yours included we can certainly poke out holes with the benefit of 12 months of vision.
Its obvious you are invested in this years live game no problem but does that mean we can't look at what they decided to show us and comment on it ?
I took zero cheap shots. We are known for analyzing video.
and honestly what does anything you posted have to do with the blend in the euro ?
Bretheren I ask you was that a cheap shot to say the euro had a bad blend.
The producer said its the what most realistic ever ?
They said real time physics so we should just act like we didn't see that ?
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that was an obvious blend into that particular animation.
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