NCAA Football 11 News Post

NCAA's Broken Dynasty Mode -- Another reason we need a revolution

01:30 PM - July 27, 2010 by RaychelSnr

As many of you may know already -- and if you don't it's okay because I'm about to enlighten you -- NCAA's dynasty mode is horribly broken this year.

Since EA Tiburon made the decision to rate recruits lower coming into school (but yet I guess forget to work on the progression of the game), most teams end up with middle of the road talent after years 4 or 5. It's like all of the football talent in America dries up after this year and all you are left with are a bunch of players rated in the 70s. I did a sim to see how bad it was and my Oklahoma Sooners went from a team with A ratings to a team with C+ ratings, yet they still won the Big XII in Year 7 with that kind of talent. Mostly because Texas had slipped to a team with C-s across the board. Baylor actually was rated as D+ (roughly where such powerhouses as UL Monroe and Western Kentucky lie today).

To me -- this just shows how horribly stale Dynasty mode is in NCAA.

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# 81 southwvboy @ 07/28/10 02:11 AM

I'm not big on the recruiting portion of the game but I had to sign up to post my anger when I finished my season last night with Tulsa. I was looking through the conf. standings and saw that both Nevada and Boise State finished 1st in the conference with 7 - 0 records. At least when you play your first season these two are not on each others schedule and you can't add them either. Now this is just two teams so who knows how many more there is. Plus they have the bowls all jacked up. They have the Big East no. 2 team going to bowls like the Armed Forces bowl or GMAC Bowl. Way to go EA way to go.

# 82 GJEM @ 07/28/10 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segagendude


	I have a question about all this progression stuff. More like, trying to read into minds of certain gamers: Out of curiosity, why do some buy a new game, then sim ahead 5, 10, 15+ years? What's the point? I mean, simming past this current season, I can understand. You may want to start building a new dynasty from scratch, so simming 1 year ahead makes sense to me. But more than that? See, I guess I'm a different kind of gamer. I like playing along with the current season, then taking a break and starting up again when the real next season begins. I never sim; I play every game just like real life. So I guess I don't really understand the point of simming so far ahead to see what, how progression is "broken?" I mean, isn't that similar to renting a movie only to fast forward right to the end? Or skipping right to the end of a book for that matter, to see if you like it? It's not just here, I see this in The Show forums, and Madden as well.Guys buying these games and within three days, already simmed to the season 2016, for example. Again, what are you looking for? As to the question of " How did the testers miss this???" I'd venture a guess that they don't sim either; they probably play for hours on end looking for immediate bugs and glitches. Also, the devs probably figure that most hardcore gamers will only play for this year, then piddle around in offseason, then buy next year's game, do it again, and so on. This is kinda long, I know. Again my question is, why sim so far ahead instead of play out each game in the current season, then proceed to the offseason? What are you looking for? Thanks...

Most of the people on here talking about the progression problem don't sim that far ahead, but the problem they're talking about becomes more apparent once you past season 1 really.

# 83 Bodizzy @ 07/28/10 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youALREADYknow


	I can't decide what is more disturbing. A. The fact that dynasty mode (aside from the introduction of Online Dynasty) hasn't changed much in 13 years and has actually regressed since last gen. B. The fact that EA has had 13 years to nail down prospect generation, progression, and CPU recruiting strategy and yet still has so many release issues regarding these areas every year. It leads me as an outside observer to believe that the NCAA product team simply does not value their "hardcore" dynasty mode user community. They must not invest much in the way of time and resources into this mode. The only areas which have seen work done are areas which can be marketed as "new". See Online Dynasty, new recruiting engine, and custom conferences. These are all nice additions, but do little to address the foundation of the dynasty mode. It's likely because the meat and potatoes of a true dynasty mode isn't sexy stuff... it doesn't sell games on it's own. The true dynasty mode players are looking for AI and simulation on par with games such as OOTP Baseball. Casual gamers and EA apologists will claim that this is an unrealistic expectation and we should be happy with what we have. I vehemently disagree because OOTP has/had ONE DEVELOPER! ONE! ONE PERSON! That's how much it takes to get realistic prospect generation, simulation statistics, and true attention to detail. ONE PERSON. That's the reason some of us can't just sit back and act like everything is alright. If this was an unprecedented standard that we held EA to, then the complacency would be understandable. As it stands, we're merely asking for a product to actually work as intended. We're asking for product quality. We're asking for something that has been accomplished before by development shops with far fewer resources and tighter budgets.

You've nailed it. OOTP, while a text sim, is "number crunching" with a lot of passion behind it. There's no reason/excuse for why NCAA cannot marry its gameplay with such deep and nuanced statistical performance.

As others have levied, EA understands that a "stale," uninspired dynasty mode does not generate the majority of its sales, but rather that the fact that it looks pretty and plays fun does. However, in an ideal world the few of us hardcore dynasty gurus (a lot of us here at OS, pretty much) would slobber over a NCAA that shipped with a feature-rich dynasty that incorporated fully fleshed-out, intelligent recruiting, personality dynamics between coaches (head, assistant, and positional) and athletes, customizable playbooks (and plays), scheme-oriented player ratings, etc., etc., etc.

A logical line of thinking would be that over the course of years that EA has been working on NCAA that one could say they have been "building" on it, but yearly iterations lacking seemingly basic features that were in previous iterations bespeak the opposite. If a game with the breadth and personal touches like OOTP exists, then there is no reason under the sun why NCAA can't at least attempt to come close to that, text sim or no text sim.

Apples to oranges, but as I've said before, when there are games out there like Fallout 3, Assassin's Creed II, and RDR, it is apparent that developers can achieve outstanding results when they strive for excellence. Play one of those games and they make most sports titles look shameful in respects to the care and desire that was poured into them. I know that comparison has its flaws, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that the tech and capability are there for developers of sports titles to bring the wood, so to speak.

It really boils down to EA not desiring to do so. They have no reason to. OOTP is made by someone with a ton of passion and attention to detail. It is a labor of love. NCAA, as much as I hate to say it, is not.

# 84 BIG17EASY @ 07/28/10 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostle


	I am not sticking up for EA here, but in the past I've seen developers come on these forums and get blasted. Most of the complaints were valid but you can't just rip on someone's work in a disrespectful and abusive manner and expect them to stick around. There's a way to talk to people constructively and it was proven that a lot of people that would communicate here did not have that ability. Again, I am not sticking up for EA, but after seeing some of the threads that I saw, I can understand why they would steer clear of this place. Does some of that fall on EA? Sure, with the other company being discussed, they obviously have a track record of listening to the masses and being receptive to their customers. So it's really a double-edged sword at this point. Hopefully in the future, we will get more chances to have some interaction with EA's developers. But here's a thought, too... Perhaps they are actively reading these forums and working on the problems so they can get a patch out. It's a little too early for me to start verbally attacking the developers and accusing them of not caring. I truly believe they want their game to be top-notch -- look at some of the strides they made in this year's game. The game is downright beautiful at times. They missed on some aspects this year, but let's see if they can fix the problems.

I'm sure people from EA are reading these forums, and you're also right that a lot of people here complain and attack EA too much, which may scare them away. But that happens on any board -- except maybe the College Hoops 2K board. The good thing about SCEA is Kolbe responds to the posters who give constructive criticism or post about the problem they're having and ignores all the people who just spout off. And the fact that he does that quiets a good amount of people who just want to rip the game while also pleasing the people who post the constructive criticism.

A simple post from someone at EA saying, "We're aware of the problem and we're working on a patch," or "We believe the game works correctly as is and do not have plans to release a patch dealing with progression/recruit ratings," would certainly go a long way. The second of those answers would cause a firestorm for a week or two, but at least the general public would have some info and we would be able to put this to rest. Instead, we're left in the dark, at least for now.

# 85 kingkilla56 @ 07/28/10 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segagendude


	I have a question about all this progression stuff. More like, trying to read into minds of certain gamers: Out of curiosity, why do some buy a new game, then sim ahead 5, 10, 15+ years? What's the point? I mean, simming past this current season, I can understand. You may want to start building a new dynasty from scratch, so simming 1 year ahead makes sense to me. But more than that? See, I guess I'm a different kind of gamer. I like playing along with the current season, then taking a break and starting up again when the real next season begins. I never sim; I play every game just like real life. So I guess I don't really understand the point of simming so far ahead to see what, how progression is "broken?" I mean, isn't that similar to renting a movie only to fast forward right to the end? Or skipping right to the end of a book for that matter, to see if you like it? It's not just here, I see this in The Show forums, and Madden as well.Guys buying these games and within three days, already simmed to the season 2016, for example. Again, what are you looking for? As to the question of " How did the testers miss this???" I'd venture a guess that they don't sim either; they probably play for hours on end looking for immediate bugs and glitches. Also, the devs probably figure that most hardcore gamers will only play for this year, then piddle around in offseason, then buy next year's game, do it again, and so on. This is kinda long, I know. Again my question is, why sim so far ahead instead of play out each game in the current season, then proceed to the offseason? What are you looking for? Thanks...

They're plenty reasons why people are in the 2016 season. They aren't looking to find the progressions issues or maybe they are. But who are you to criticize them for playing the game the way they want and stumbling upon what they feel are errors in the programing. I dont understand when guys post complaints about the guys who are complaining.

I am in season 2018 because i purely simmed the career of a head coach. I started at a small school. Simmed years down the line while i manually recruited made schedules redshirted etc. And eventually i take another job and play games here and there, mostly championship and bowl games. If i played every game it would be too time consuming and i'd probably win 7 out of 8 BCS championships.

And what did I happen to find? Messed up ratings across the nation. I WAS NOT LOOKING FOR ANYTHING. I was simply playing the game. How else can someone find an error in a game without paying it? Dont assume everybody is head hunting to bash EA. Thats not the case.

EDIT: "Also, the devs probably figure that most hardcore gamers will only play for this year, then piddle around in offseason, then buy next year's game, do it again, and so on."

So what? Thats an excuse for dynasty to get worse after the first year? Because some people only play a seasons worth of dynasty mode its okay for the later years to turn into JV football? I think madden mentality is steering your view on this matter.

# 86 Deegeezy @ 07/28/10 08:17 AM

It is really time for EA to pay more attention to detail on their games. It is inexcusable for a video game to have this many flaws and glitches year-in, year-out.

# 87 KG @ 07/28/10 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabigman9748


	Woah! I'm shocked! The same game that was supposed to be the "savior of the NCAA Football series" has major problems! Give it up guys, it's like this every year! First we hear about what a great game it is and how it's the best football game ever! Then a couple of weeks later, we find out that it has major problems. Every year Chris calls the new NCAA football the best ever, only to call the previous year's iteration complete trash. EVERY YEAR! EA hasn't made a decent NCAA without a major problem since 2006 on last gen. They just don't get it. I haven't bought since '09 because it's pretty much the same game with a few minor enhancements. I lol at all the times EA talks about how they have totally revamped something when really all the did was add a little polish to it. In the words of the great Luther Vandross: "It all ends up the same. It's never gonna change."

I think people this year are generally happy this year about the game as it plays out on the field. Are there issues relating to gameplay? Of course, but so far it's the best next-gen offering we've had.

# 88 bnoe1023 @ 07/28/10 09:55 AM

Why dont they just allow us to manually edit players ratings in Dynasty mode. That would alleviate much of these ratings problems

# 89 TDTGodfather @ 07/28/10 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sois


	Obviously you aren't to unhappy with it. You bought it and pimp an NCAA 11 dynasty in your sig. You can't have it both ways man. Either live with it or send a message with your wallet.

that's easier said than done. i've bought this game every year since '96. people who love it are sometimes the most vocal because they want the best for it and themselves.

i would probably play this game if it was 8 bit (and the only one offered) because i love sports gaming and i love coll fb.

# 90 ps2king @ 07/28/10 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnoe1023


	Why dont they just allow us to manually edit players ratings in Dynasty mode. That would alleviate much of these ratings problems

It would still be a lot of work to edit all those rosters year in year out.

If I do keep NCAA 11. I'll have to stick to 5-7 year dynasties and hope there is a patch released soon.

# 91 Deegeezy @ 07/28/10 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sois


	Obviously you aren't too unhappy with it. You bought it and pimp an NCAA 11 dynasty in your sig. You can't have it both ways man. Either live with it or send a message with your wallet.

I think this is baloney. I never said this game was terrible. I never said I did not enjoy it. I just said that there are too many errors in the game and in many areas they should show more pride in the details of their work. The game has sloppy areas all over the place but that does not mean I should quit it all together.

Me not buying the game won't change a thing.

# 92 Buckeyes_Doc @ 07/28/10 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segagendude


	I have a question about all this progression stuff. More like, trying to read into minds of certain gamers: Out of curiosity, why do some buy a new game, then sim ahead 5, 10, 15+ years? What's the point? I mean, simming past this current season, I can understand. You may want to start building a new dynasty from scratch, so simming 1 year ahead makes sense to me. But more than that? See, I guess I'm a different kind of gamer. I like playing along with the current season, then taking a break and starting up again when the real next season begins. I never sim; I play every game just like real life. So I guess I don't really understand the point of simming so far ahead to see what, how progression is "broken?" I mean, isn't that similar to renting a movie only to fast forward right to the end? Or skipping right to the end of a book for that matter, to see if you like it? It's not just here, I see this in The Show forums, and Madden as well.Guys buying these games and within three days, already simmed to the season 2016, for example. Again, what are you looking for? As to the question of " How did the testers miss this???" I'd venture a guess that they don't sim either; they probably play for hours on end looking for immediate bugs and glitches. Also, the devs probably figure that most hardcore gamers will only play for this year, then piddle around in offseason, then buy next year's game, do it again, and so on. This is kinda long, I know. Again my question is, why sim so far ahead instead of play out each game in the current season, then proceed to the offseason? What are you looking for? Thanks...

I have to disagree with that. How many people play for just one year and then move on to NCAA 12? What would be the point of them adding recruiting, coaching goals, and so on to dynasty? They have to figure people will play more then 1 year. This is dynasty mode, right?

# 93 Deegeezy @ 07/28/10 10:51 AM

Probably the very first thing I would do if I was assigned to dynasty mode testing would be to sim 10 years into the future to see how the teams looked in comparison to the default rosters. That right there would be the starting point that would tell me what needs tweaking.

EA needs to be less secretive about their games and let a mass # of volunteers come to their facility to test things out. I would certainly do it.

# 94 mjarz02 @ 07/28/10 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deegeezy


	Probably the very first thing I would do if I was assigned to dynasty mode testing would be to sim 10 years into the future to see how the teams looked in comparison to the default rosters. That right there would be the starting point that would tell me what needs tweaking. EA needs to be less secretive about their games and let a mass # of volunteers come to their facility to test things out. I would certainly do it.

Yep! So many of us would do it for free. Shoot, I'd pay a 100$ to test the game out of if they would actually listen to my ideas!

# 95 charter04 @ 07/28/10 11:45 AM

Last night when I started the game it updated something. I think that was the patch. Last night at about 10 central time. Has anyone else had this happen?
When you get the patch can you still use the same dynasty or do you have to start another?

# 96 Deegeezy @ 07/28/10 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	Last night when I started the game it updated something. I think that was the patch. Last night at about 10 central time. Has anyone else had this happen? When you get the patch can you still use the same dynasty or do you have to start another?

You probably got the original, release day patch.

# 97 jethrotull @ 07/28/10 12:00 PM

I just don't get how it was released this way?

The problem is with the generated recruits, they are terrible, the kickers are unplayable. I saw another post where someone stated that "skill ratings don't matter." I could only laugh at that, then why would they include them?

I am not griping about progression, but when recruits come in as a 4 star at 63 overall, they wont see the field for 3 years. They have low ratings in key categories, unacceptable.

The worst part is that no one from EA has confirmed they are working on a patch. The only people that have recognized a problem are at their customer care center.

# 98 ShowTyme15 @ 07/28/10 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deegeezy


	You probably got the original, release day patch.

Or it could have been a firm ware update as well.

# 99 Nextel Husker @ 07/28/10 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdwills3521


	When I download the patch do I have to start my dynasty over or will it apply when the next recruiting class comes in???

It will apply to your dynasty going forward, but not anything that has already happened.

# 100 BROman @ 07/28/10 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjarz02


	Yep! So many of us would do it for free. Shoot, I'd pay a 100$ to test the game out of if they would actually listen to my ideas!

yep, i know i would too.

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