Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

05:17 PM - November 19, 2010 by Steve_OS

Check out the second Madden NFL designers podcast.

Animations and defense (zone) is going to be worked on extensively
Discussion on real time physics, it's a long term goal and is the future
Triumphs and failures, over the years (discussion)
Donny talks about speed rating domination
One of the top priorities is DEFENSE, as well as value
Metrics - Play Now, Online Play Now, Offline Franchise are the most played modes, the rest are tied well below.
Bowling pin tackle discussion.
Penalties... PI and defensive holding discussion.
Slowing down the CPU snap discussion
Next podcast to showcase Franchise mode

Quote:


	"Madden Creative Director Ian Cummings this week sets down with Donny Moore and Larry Richart of the Madden design team to talk about a few things; This Week's Roster Update, Game Play Guru Larry Richart, Real Time Physics Discussion, NBA Elite to Tiburon Chat, Twitter Questions, and the already famous Hateful Tweet of the week."

Listen to the podcast, right here.

According to Ian Cummings, it is already available on iTunes.

Game: Madden NFL 11Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 96 - View All

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Member Comments

# 41 ChicagoChris @ 11/20/10 02:55 PM

Again...no talk of special teams. Such a huge part of football and completely ignored in Madden.

# 42 Senator Palmer @ 11/20/10 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palo20


	I did find it interesting that they lauded NBA 2K, then went on to almost dismiss creating a football sim of the same caliber. I thought this Madden team's mantra was to create the ultimate sim, so NBA 2K should be the standard rather than an unreachable goal.

I heard some things in this podcast that I liked, but that bit did bother me. I thought I was just being a bit paranoid, reading too much into it, but I guess not. Donny at one point refered to NBA 2k as "a simulation game to the nth degree", as if to imply that the 2k development team is out there in some strange virgin territory that isn't even a thought for Madden.

They also talked about how Elite was trying to find a balance between sim that's dialed back to make it more accessible, which seems to be the mantra and the problem with Madden.

# 43 Kushmir @ 11/20/10 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segagendude


	This, + 1000.

guys,

don't get sucked in. these jokers pull this crap every year. it's the same song and dance.they see how sales have slipped. corporate probably has them doing damage control. them giving the hardcore the casual "finger" this year was the last straw. Madden will never see another dime from me--not one. News Flash: they're " selling" you right now...if you're a fan of real football. BOYCOTT MADDEN 12.

# 44 jjsmitty34 @ 11/20/10 04:29 PM

Instead of Boycotting Madden, lets try to get our concerns across to the developers..

# 45 goodygoody @ 11/20/10 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjsmitty34


	Instead of Boycotting Madden, lets try to get our concerns across to the developers..

Lol yupp.. That should do it.

# 46 PVarck31 @ 11/20/10 06:28 PM

I know this has been said, but it needs to be said over and over apparently. If the Madden team would just listen to us, we can turn this thing around. There isn't a community out there that has more football knowledge than right here.

Madden 09 was terrible. Ian and co. listened to us and Madden 10 was a huge improvement. Thats still not saying to much, but it was a marked improvement. Then EA decided they were gonna pull their devs away from us and look what we got in Madden 11. A marginal improvement at best, and some would say a step back.

I just don't get how they feel that people don't want a deep sim game. The proof is in the pudding.

# 47 aTTckr @ 11/20/10 07:22 PM

I think the problem with the Madden devs at the moment is that they aren't really sim gamers. When they talked about 2k11 they were like "oh man this so sim, it's waaay to complicated for me" and so they come to the conclusion that the constumers are also too dumb to enjoy a sim game.

As long as the current devs aren't really big football fans (and they don't seem to be) we will never see a true sim Madden. Because only a real football fan can appreciate a real sim football game.

# 48 raiders81tim @ 11/20/10 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pringles


	they need to scrap there engine and buy backbreakers the running motions in noway look human

And backbreakers do... lol.

# 49 sniperhare @ 11/20/10 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pringles


	they need to scrap there engine and buy backbreakers the running motions in noway look human

Imagine what they could do with the engine and all their resources. If they have to wait until the next consoles I hope they start developing them soon.

I've had a 360 since launch, upgraded my computer twice since then and even with an elite it's still the same basic console.

Maybe we can get a new console by Q4 2011-Q1 2012.

# 50 dannyr326 @ 11/20/10 11:36 PM

Those guys really piss me off. Donny does a solid job on the ratings. I think everyone can agree with that. But the way they were talking about 2K11 being too complicated. wow. Nobody cares about gameflow and making the game simpler. The goal is Realism, fundamentals, tackling, user control...

# 51 Moegames @ 11/21/10 01:16 AM

Devs - just get back to the basics, never mind coming up with the next "big idea" and just make a fun, authentic game of pigskin..thats all we ever wanted but please...make sure the game has some "soul" ...look at NBA 2k11, NFL2k5, MLB The Show.. one of the big reasons why so many love those games and cant get enough of those games is not only the solid game play/AI but the presentation is "right" ...those games flow in all area's, the commentary in those games flow seamlessly and it "feels" like its the real thing because of the presentation and atmospheric touches...which pay off big time by helping make the game fun and exciting to play.

Another thing.. the running game in madden needs to allow the tapping of the button to break out of tackles and to run faster. Im not suggesting making it the only way to run the rock or break tackles..im saying give us an "OPTION" for that ..that can be toggled on or off for personal preference.

One of the most exciting things with NFL2k5 was being able to adjust how fast you tap the button to run while looking for a hole to break through and after breaking through the hole you tap the button even faster so you can break away from the defenders or tapping the button fast as you can to get around the defenders on a sweep to the right or left.....it also feels so good to be able to tap the button to break out of a tackle. These are things that should already come in this game but for what ever reason.. you all never even touched it which baffles me. To me and i know for many others..thats fun stuff. You dev's gotta be able to see that....right?

By the way .. just to make myself clear ...Im not talking about holding down a trigger button to accelerate like you always gave us..no no no..im talking how it was in NFL2k5 to the "T" ... put aside the pride and take that from NFL2k5 and just put it in madden ..PLEASE. It would be one of those "little" things that make a "BIG" difference.

Also dont stop with the presentation... in my opinion its not even close to where it should be right now. I will even say M11 feels like it took a step backwards over M10 in the presentation dept. The commentary MUST flow step by step... and must feel natural. It simply does not.. Gus at some points in the game sounds utterly foolish at times..thats not the effect you want....no? Come on guys... again, if NBA 2k11 can make that fast pace game flow with its commentary... then there is absolutely no excuse for madden not to follow suite. Its been done time and time again but madden again and again seems it cant get any breath taking presentation into their game..its KILLING IT. This day and age we live in.. presentation is what most of us demand to be included in a sports title..and those that dont are the minority. Who is your priority? - Online Tourney guys? Hardcore sim guys? Or the average joe that likes to kick back on the couch by their self or with a buddy and play a fun game of football? You guys need to really really think about this...

Simply put - madden sales are falling because the game feels dated and stale..no life, no soul, no excitement. Keep pressing on the presentation, half time stuff, franchise stuff and flowing commentary and of course key game play and AI elements and we will finally be playing the game we been waiting for. Like i said...get back to the basics and that is the bottom line.

# 52 jWILL253 @ 11/21/10 06:13 AM

As far as "boycotting the game" is concerned, Madden sales are down 18% from last year. So, we can stop with the overused term. As long as the economy continues being the way it is, then gamers are gonna want more for their buck.

Now, for the rest of the podcast. I brought up the issue of Real-Time Physics the week before, and Ian responded on Twitter by bringing up the podcasts before the first one even came out. It's good to know it's the future, but how far along? They said they've been working on it since dev for Madden 06 began, but they had to trash it because it wasn't ready. But, a HOCKEY game has it, so "the future" can't be too far away.

It's funny that they brought up the issue of penalties, specifically Pass Interference, because I keep thinking of the story of EA Sports being re-structured from the inside that came out a few weeks back. The story said that there would be a lot more sharing of resources. And, if I remember correctly, FIFA has a jostling system in place. Maybe if they add the same thing for WR/DB interaction, it would actually make the virtual refs call it, and then it would just be a tuning issue. Because, from what I understand, the only reason why they don't have PI tuned properly, is because of how often the DB would MAUL the receiver. Thing is, if they take the jostling system from FIFA, they wouldn't need to make a DB MAUL a receiver, as most PI calls are borderline anyways.

But, I was SMH at their analysis of NBA 2K11. They should honestly take a look at sales numbers, and discover that SIM SELLS. MLB 10 The Show: top-seller. NHL 11: hot ticket. NBA 2K11: one of the highest selling games for the month of October. FIFA 11: highest selling game worldwide. If they DO pay attention to numbers, then they would know that SIM is the way to go, because ALL of the games they made to cater to the arcade crowd don't sell well. In fact, Elite was cancelled.

Just my take on all of that...

# 53 Kushmir @ 11/21/10 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyr326


	Those guys really piss me off. Donny does a solid job on the ratings. I think everyone can agree with that. But the way they were talking about 2K11 being too complicated. wow. Nobody cares about gameflow and making the game simpler. The goal is Realism, fundamentals, tackling, user control...

I almost choked when I saw this. are you serious? this dude is a JOKE...he might be the biggest reason I put down the game. at their core--sports games function from ratings..if ratings are bad, the game is bad. and Donny Moore couldn't rate his way out of a wet paper bag....wanna know why QBs are too accurate, there are too many broken tackles, defenses are inept and speed is the games dominant attribute? look no further than your RATINGS. and by association...your ratings "czar" (as if..only if czar translates to "bumbling idiot who ruins everything"...chuckle)

2 years ago they were supposed to be "shrinking" the ratings...but this guy's overrating knows no bounds. once again we have solid and good players with overall rating in the 90s when these ratings should be reserved for the top players at each position. the result? LOL..look no further than Rob Bironas and Janikowski kicking FGs of further than 65 yards (i'm not making this up...go in practice mode if you doubt me) to see the effects of his know-nothingness.

ratings should inch-along and players should be assessed quarterly during the season (i.e. every four games) there is simply too much ebb and flow from week-to-week in the NFL to rate players after 7 days. while we should see player movement (especially since the official NFL videogame doesn't have full rosters..sigh) that should be it.

more proof? follow this guy on twitter and watch the foolishness he prints. his knee-jerk reaction to rating players where one play raises/lowers your ratings is idiocy. even worse, his basic approach to ratings is screwed up...he spouts off about not lowering the Cowboys ratings too much because they've "obviously got alot of talent, the coaching was just bad." no friggin' duh, donny! I could say that about alot of teams.

I guess those early Patriots SB teams wouldn't have been rated very well. I mean...all they did was stay disciplined, not beat themselves and out-scheme and out-coach people...especially with SPEED being the dominant attribute in Madden and all. Every team in the NFL has talent...ratings should be first and foremost based on SUCCESS and PRODUCTION. you WIN and PRODUCE your ratings go up...you don't? they go down or stay the same...this isn't Rocket Science.

somebody put that guy on NFL Street where he belongs...he's the Dick Vitale of sports gaming.

show these guys how you feel about the casual "middle finger" they gave sim gamers in Madden 11. BOYCOTT MADDEN 12.

# 54 sniperhare @ 11/21/10 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushmir


	I almost choked when I saw this. are you serious? this dude is a JOKE...he might be the biggest reason I put down the game. at their core--sports games function from ratings..if ratings are bad, the game is bad. and Donny Moore couldn't rate his way out of a wet paper bag....wanna know why QBs are too accurate, there are too many broken tackles, defenses are inept and speed is the games dominant attribute? look no further than your RATINGS. and by association...your ratings "czar" (as if..only if czar translates to "bumbling idiot who runs everything"...chuckle) 2 years ago they were supposed to be "shrinking" the ratings...but this guy's overrating knows no bounds. once again we have solid and good players with overall rating in the 90s when these ratings should be reserved for the top players at each position. the result? LOL..look no further than Rob Bironas and Janikowski kicking FGs of further than 65 yards (i'm not making this up...go in practice mode if you doubt me) to see the effects of his know-nothingness. ratings should inch-along and players should be assessed quarterly during the season (i.e. every four games) there is simply too much ebb and flow from week-to-week in the NFL to rate players after 7 days. while we should see player movement (especially since the official NFL videogame doesn't have full rosters..sigh) that should be it. more proof? follow this guy on twitter and watch the foolishness he prints. his knee-jerk reaction to rating players where one play raises/lowers your ratings is idiocy. even worse, his basic approach to ratings is screwed up...he spouts off about not lowering the Cowboys ratings too much because they've "obviously got alot of talent, the coaching was just bad." no friggin' duh, donny! I could say that about alot of teams. I guess those early Patriots SB teams wouldn't have been rated very well. I mean...all they did was stay disciplined, not beat themselves and out-scheme and out-coach people...especially with SPEED being the dominant attribute in Madden and all. Every team in the NFL has talent...ratings should be first and foremost based on SUCCESS and PRODUCTION. you WIN and PRODUCE your ratings go up...you don't? they go down or stay the same...this isn't Rocket Science. somebody put that guy on NFL Street where he belongs...he's the Dick Vitale of sports gaming. show these guys how you feel about the casual "middle finger" they gave sim gamers in Madden 11. BOYCOTT MADDEN 12.

+1 I've always felt Madden needed a team of people rating the rosters.

And until they give us full rosters, a working IR and practice squads the Madden devs are failing at giving us a realistic game.

If it's a disc space issue use two discs, it worked fine in playstation days, it can work again.

# 55 Kushmir @ 11/21/10 08:54 AM

a team? such a novel concept...you mean maybe one person per team who can really evaluate the players and tell us the "little things" like which bench player is playing "lights out" and legitimately deserves a ratings boost versus some guy who's numbers look good but in actuality he's putting them up in garbage time long after the games have been decided?

never happen. it'd take a company with enough money to buy NFL exclusivity to do something like that...

but all sarcasm aside, i won't play another football game again until i get those things you mentioned (in addition to real-time physics, consecutive tackling. individual coverage audibles...the list is long--i won't go into it here) and since I know Madden won't ever consider a game that "sim" (them turning up their noses at NBA 2K is **** fail, in my opinion-and let the real sim gamer know how they really feel) i'm retired....its breaks my heart not to play football, but I won't be disappointed over and over again...

# 56 carnalnirvana @ 11/21/10 09:16 AM

kushmir

amen bro, i have preached this for years, the ratings are the #1 reason the default week to week gameplay is garbage

i have completely re-rated my game...

# 57 Senator Palmer @ 11/21/10 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InSainn


	The problem with playcallin in Madden, and really any and every football game ever made is that it should be multistep. First, you choose your player package, next the formation, then, on offense, you call the blocking scheme/protection followed by what play the skill positions are running (obviosly, with a run the blocking scheme is gonna be tied into the play), but this way, virtually any play could be run from any formation or player package. Then on defense you would choose player package (Regular, Nickel, Dime, Quarter, etc), formation (4-3, 3-4, 46, 4-2, 3-3-5, 1-5-5, etc.), then finally pass rush and coverage would be picked seperately, that way you could mix n match different rushes with different coverages and never give the offense the exact same look.

Too complicated (too sim). That's something that other company focuses on, which produced games that are "sim to the nth degree." Not fun enough. EA wants SIMPLER... QUICKER... DEEPER

!

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...otion-sim.html

# 58 Kushmir @ 11/21/10 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnalnirvana


	kushmir amen bro, i have preached this for years, the ratings are the #1 reason the default week to week gameplay is garbage i have completely re-rated my game...

rerated the whole game? dude you're my hero. here's the thing....we shouldn't have to do that crap, feel me? you allege your game is this realistic football game and every game ends 45-42? GTFOH....(thick italian accent)

why? even though i give EA props on their online play (finally doing away with playing the CPU and you can go to Play Now and get a game inside 10 seconds--you can also set your depth charts in the roster section) bad ratings mean playing online (the only way I play) is a NO GO. i can't change those ratings...I'm slave to Donny Moore's foolish antics there...

another reason this is unacceptable? NBA 2K, a truly great game but laughable online (for the most part) has already had like 2 roster updates. now they don't parade their ratings out in front of everyone and throw a big podcast parade so their ratings guy can tell everyone why Josh Freeman should have 130 arm strength...but they largely get them RIGHT. i'm a 76ers fan (laugh it up, laugh it up) and even though we're 3-11 Jrue Holiday and Elton Brand (who have both actually been playing pretty solid, went up in ratings) Holiday stated the season at a 70 (a starter rated less than an 85? yes...it does happen, contrary to what Madden would have you believe) and Brand was a 73. both are now a 78 (a little high imo, i'd give jrue a 72 and brand a 75--again we're 3 and 11) but the point is they didn't miss ratings boosts on people who weren't high profile.

lastly, a system where ratings start in the 70s on most teams (hell, my center is a 66 and my SF is a 68) do remarkable things for gameplay. lemme tell ya, try going in NBA 2K and attempting that accuracy-by-volume high-risk, high-reward behavior that Madden lets you get away with. I can guarantee you a shooting percentage of less than 40% and a turnover-fest that will probably have you pressing "quit"....the best part? injured players are actually relegated to the injured list if i play online.

takes some notes, Madden Team. STEP YOUR GAME UP.

# 59 N51_rob @ 11/21/10 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt


	I just listen to the podcast and the game that EA is making is not the game for me. It is cool but just time for me to move on or better yet move back to games I enjoyed. Last gen Madden and 2k and APF2k8 and Madden 10.

I get the same feeling. It's like they are setting up a big undersell. Im a franchise guy and the lack of attention that mode got in 11 is why I skipped it completely. Really hoping that they would give Online Franchise the right kind of attention but Im not getting a warm and fuzzy. Then hear them talk about NBA 2K and his it's a "sim to the nth degree" which is what I would like to see Madden transition to, they seemed to go out of their way to say that's not what Madden will be anytime soon.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

# 60 adembroski @ 11/21/10 02:12 PM

A team of people on ratings would be a terrible idea. You got 10 guys, you have 10 different ideas of what constitutes what rating. Everyone's rated on a different standard. Donny Moore's "scouting" ability is no better or no worse than anyone else. He is, however, dedicated and consistent rating across different teams/players (I think the main reason he got that position was because of his essentially being a fan of the NFL in general more than any particular team). He's fair and doesn't play favorites... until you're going to be willing to pay a guy NFL scouting money to come in and type in spreadsheets 10 hours a day, you can't ask for much more.

Call me on defending EA all you want. I'm damn well going to defend the guys behind NFL Head Coach 09.

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