Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

10:57 AM - November 22, 2010 by Ian_Cummings

So Josh Looman and I looked into this a bit this morning and I thought I'd post back some results.

Good News: It's very easy enough to 'unlock' the screen to allow someone to edit everything about their players in Franchise mode. Took like 10 minutes to do.

Bad News: Unfortunately, there are about a million things that can go wrong with this unlocked. Now I realize what you all will use this feature for which is to fine-tune progression and try and get extremely realistic stats, but here are just a few of the things that came up when we messed around with it:

There are countless "cheesing" things that the user can do like dropping your player ratings right before the off-season, signing him to the cheapest deal possible, and then setting him back.
Your save file can easily be rendered non-functional if you change enough CPU team's player's ratings where they can't re-sign any players. At this point the mode typically crashes or hangs and won't be recoverable from.
We also don't display that potential rating in the edit player screen now, and if you were to edit the actual player's overall rating to be higher than his potential rating, the game has a chance of crashing in many different spots. We'd have to add it in and always force it to be higher than the OVR I guess.

So I need help from you all...

Please comment and be specific about what exactly you NEED to edit. What is your overall specific intent with wanting to edit these players? Are there certain time frames we can lock it to? Are there certain specific changes you could only be allowed to make instead of full league-wide control? By reducing the amount of variables we can look into finding ways to make this happen. Unfortunately allowing the user to set every player in the league anytime from a 0 to a 99 is not going to be an option because of all the instability it will cause...and we just don't have the testing man-power to ensure that the mode won't start crashing all over the place.

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# 61 eraserx13 @ 11/23/10 01:02 AM

All I care about is having the chance to change a players appearance. I cannot stand seeing a 300lb Defensive End look like my kicker while a 275lb DT looks huge in comparison. This is most prevalent in NCAA imported drafted players where the appearences are really out of whack.

# 62 eraserx13 @ 11/23/10 01:08 AM

Also, I would edit ratings, specifically speed ratings, for older players. The lack of regression in this game really blows. As an example, there's only a handfull of productive runningbacks at the age of 32 and beyond. Yet, in this game, Chris Johnson and Adrien Peterson maintain their 99 OVR as they approach retirement. As a result, posting 1500+ seasons in the "twilight" of their career happens more times than not. Actually since their is no regression and very few injuries in the sim game, most of guys in the top 10 in career rushing records are by modern day players. While some maybe good but probability and history will be against most of them.

# 63 alifeincomplete @ 11/23/10 02:06 AM

My sentiments have been pretty well established by others in this thread. Because I purchased he game, it is my property; I should have as much flexibility with editing as possible. However, the issues of game crashes scare me. If there was a way to strike a good balance there -- which I'm sure there is, but I'm not a game dev -- it'd be ideal. I primarily just want the ability to edit players/depth charts for everyone. I don't need a rookie editor if that's the case because I can edit rookies after the fact that they get drafted.

Thanks for introducing the discussion, Ian. It's great to see that you guys never stop trying to get fan feedback on this.

# 64 rooney8 @ 11/23/10 02:21 AM

Is this only being able to edit player ratings? Lets say progression/regression is still too low in Madden12 there is no way I would go through the thousands of players doing my own progression. Would some of you guys do that?
I maybe would edit 300 imported rookies if they were really off but I wouldn't be happy about even having to do that. If we could edit progression/regression itself like make it double of treble that would be cool.

# 65 thuganomics87 @ 11/23/10 03:07 AM

i say do it so yes is my answer

# 66 Jono078 @ 11/23/10 06:35 AM

I don't really see the need to edit players bar uniform and numbers.

Id rather there just be a bigger focus on a really good progression system that happens multiple times a season and players are always being re-rated or re-evaluated.

I'm personally a big fan of old gen progression. Now everyone says that it ended up with too many good players. But it's still the same now, sim 3 seasons and tell me how many 90+ QB there are, well over half the league will have a GREAT QB.

So I don't see need to edit players, but would just like to see improvements to progression in general. Have coaches ratings affect players, learning the system etc. I'm sure you guys are smart and know what would be the best way to go about rating players and progressing them in appropriate ways.

EDIT: Also bit on the side, I'm not a fan of the potential rating.

I think potential should be replaced by expectation. 1st rounder has high expectation, if he performs, gets wins and good stats he goes up. If a late round pick gets game time, does well, gets to play off etc he gets big boost.

Like lets use Tyson Alu Alu as example this year, I bet before draft Donny had him rated in the 60s with B or C potential, then he geos first round so Donny ups his rating and potential all of a sudden. And because he was a surprise early pick and doing well right now his rating is really solid in the game.

# 67 carnalnirvana @ 11/23/10 06:49 AM

the coach profiles would be a great start if not a better compromise, i understand the need for tweaking the rosters especially the roster imported from NCAA. some come in a bit under-rated and over rated....

getting the game playing close to nfl tendencies is all of our goal, if those coach profiles working and adjustable no longer would cpu run/pass commitment be an issue in gameplay...it could also help clean up cpu draft and FA issues, if we get them working right.(i heard a rumor the priority slider in the coach's scheme is a draft logic tool, i am not sure but lets assume it is)

becuase now we could adjust them so the colts wont need to draft a QB every year, when peyton is 35+ i could bump the QB priority and then they start looking, etc)

this is the type of customization that could be a compromise if you cant make the player ratings edit pass Sony Microsoft

# 68 PGaither84 @ 11/23/10 07:03 AM

Short Answer:

I want to be able to change a player's position, equipment, jersey number, and physical build while in franchise mode. I want to change a player's ratings outside of franchise mode if i disagree with Donny's ratings, along with that player's potential outside of franchise mode for the same reason. A perfect example is how EA has every first round draft pick an A potential player except Tim Tebow. I want to change that.

Being able to change a player's position and equipment is a big deal to me and something that puts Madden apart from 2k5. When I go back and play 2k5 I miss not being able to make these changes.

# 69 Ant1010 @ 11/23/10 09:00 AM

Ok i don't want to be rude or anything but what difference does this make, if you can edit player in franchise mode you still...

are playing a bunch of play now games
CANT EVEN PRACTICE WITH YOUR TEAM in franchise mode
You can sign any player you want
The rookie process isn't exciting, i never want to scout.
NCAA Football imports...MAN OH MAN. Their ratings as rookies are horrible
You can't even edit your uniforms, so say i control cleveland i'm their owner and want to give them new uniforms, like the Bengals, Falcons and seahawks. I mean why can't you get these few things right

All you have to do is TRY

# 70 michapop9 @ 11/23/10 10:03 AM

Great Question Ian!!! Finally!!!!!

I understand wanting to limit variables to prevent crashes and such, but limiting it to much would be taking away what weve wanted to get out of this ability in the first place. (making every player 99 is insane but I can only speak for myself) So is it possible like some others have said to give us an in game warning? Or just let us edit potential as well as the ratings so they never overlap! Either way like I said this is a neccessity and overdue, for those that dont see the need dont use it!!! but dont take that ability away for those that do (I garuantee that if we all had the ability you would use it sometime during your franchise) Thanks Ian

# 71 jeremym480 @ 11/23/10 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palo20


	I really like the idea mentioned above about tying contracts to production instead of OVR. Is that possible with the current system and would that solve the problem with the crashes? Why do we need to edit? I want the ability to edit player ratings because I generally do one franchise where I like to duplicate the NFL season. I start around opening day and play a bunch of different teams' games throughout the year, and I would like the weekly ratings changes from Donny Moore to be reflected in my franchise. So I'd like the option to change Vick into a game changer in my franchise for the 2010 season. Also, giving us the ability to edit ratings would satisfy a number of different hardcore gamers: --People like me who like to edit during the current season --People who want imported NCAA draft classes to look right --People who don't trust the current progression system and would like to make their own changes. MLB the Show has one of the most respected franchise modes around, and they've given the user complete editing control. I'm not sure what workarounds they've used to combat "user cheesing" but it may be worth looking at. Once again, if progression could be tied to production, I think that would help a great deal. What do we NEED to edit? --Ratings (most important to me personally) --Player Appearance --Home/Road or Warm/Cold Weather options for equipment When do we want to edit? I'd like the ability to edit in season.

Nice post I agree with all of it. Not all of us will use the ability to edit rating's for cheesing purposes. The good majority of us use it to make our existing franchises more realistic. Sure there will be some who use it to their advantage. But so what, really? Who does it hurt?

For online franchises I would put player editing in the hands of the commissioner. Just so that player's who blow up like Vick, Hillis, Lloyd, etc. get the proper rating that they deserve in online franchises. I can see where it can cause problems so it's debatable. However, the option to turn the commish's ability to edit rating's could be voted on and turned on/off at the beginning of the OF. Again user option's are the KEY to a good sports game, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAYMO76


	I fully agree with a number of these posts. Simply put, GIVE THE USER 100% GLOBAL EDITING ABILITIES. I want to be able to: 1. Edit my players 2. Edit other teams players 3. Change the cpu depth chart for ALL teams 4. Override a rejected trade (if I want to "create" realism in my game) 5. Sign/re-sign players for CPU teams As the purchaser of the game, it's MY game. Let me play it as I wish. Now I see no problem if you want to only allow this for offline dynasty. The reality is that we are buyinng the game so let us play it the way we want.

This. Game like The Show and NBA 2K11 have this so should Madden, as well. One of the thing's that excites me the most would be the ability to edit incoming rookies. No more player's like Eric Berry and Jake Locker coming in under 60's.

I don't want to turn this into a wishlist thread however, there's two thing's that I would love to see in Madden. One is in NBA 2K11 and the other is in The Show.

From NBA 2K11 they offer the ability for user's to upload their own draft classes and let others download them to use. I'd love to see this in Madden.

In MLB The Show they allow user's to manually injure player's from any team and set the type and length of that injury. So if you want to follow the real NFL season with real life injury's you are able to do so. Example: You are a playing a franchise with the Saints and Ryan Grant get's knocked out for the season in week one. So you go over to the Packer's injury page select Grant, the type of injury and how long he will be out for (the season). Then a few weeks late Reggie Bush get's injured so go to your own teams injury page select Bush, his injury type and sideline him 4-5 weeks. Now, I know this could probably be abused as well but, basically anything can be abused if not used properly so, I'd like to see it in Madden.

# 72 RJTurneR @ 11/23/10 11:26 AM

Quote:


	I would be more interested in improving pass defense, making it more realistic, and offensive line play than editing players.

Which is completely off-topic. Does anyone read thread titles anymore..?

Some of the ideas mentioned so far have been pretty good, but I have a different idea. Why not scrap the OVR rating and/or potential rating? Think about it. The overall rating pretty much gives you an idea as to how good your players are. For example. Kolb was rated higher than Vick was when the game was released. Naturally (Unless you hate Kolb/Love Vick) your going to start Kolb over Vick. So how are you ever going to know if Vick is better than Kolb?

Andy Reid certainly didn't know that coming into the season.

In Free Agency your never going to sign some of those hidden star players (There are a few low rated ones) if there are other players rated higher than them but with worse potential.

It may seem crazy, but it would add, in my opinion, a lot more depth to franchise.

# 73 dshlapak @ 11/23/10 11:45 AM

I have zero interest in editing player ratings. Whatever problem(s) it may solve, it introduces far more and more severe ones. I'm sure I could come up with a list of 50 things to change or improve in franchise mode before this would even be o n my screenb.

# 74 PacMan3000 @ 11/23/10 12:52 PM

I'm late to the party but would like to chime in as a franchise gamer.

I'm fine with not editing players as long as the progression works correctly. I think the past few years have had solid enough progression, my issues would be when players get older. You have running backs who are age 34 with an 93 OVR rating, still starting for their teams and still ripping up the league.

In instances like this, when old veterans aren't declining, we need to be able to edit players. But if that ends up crashing Madden, I think you can entirely bypass the edit rating idea if the progression (and more importantly regression) works as it should.

# 75 Beeks @ 11/23/10 01:01 PM

I have no problems with anyone being able to edit ratings. If someone wants to cheat in their own offline franchise, that's their own prerogative. I would LOVE the ability to edit SKIN TONE, MUSCLE BUILD, and HAIR. As much effort as Donny puts in, sometimes he is just WRONG. I want to be able to fix this myself, without having to wait for a roster update which most likely won't even include the fix.

The main thing (kind of on topic, kind of off topic) that I would like to change in offline Franchise mode, is this:

The OVR rating should be abolished.

It should be replaced by a Value Rating. It would be very similar to an OVR rating, but with a few key differences, that would improve Franchise mode.

As it stands now, all of a players attributes combine to show an OVR rating, this rating represents a players physical abilities.

A Value Rating would represent that players ability as well as how he fits onto a certain team.

Ex.

Let's say in Franchise mode, you are playing as the Eagles. On the Eagles, Kevin Kolb's Value Rating is 70 because they have Vick playing out of his mind at QB, but Kolb's still a potential NFL starter. Now let's say you want to trade him... and you offer him to the 49ers. Kolb, in a trade to SF, may have a Value Rating of 93 because he's better than the QB's they have, and would be a great addition to their team. This would allow you to get more from SF because they value what you're offering more.

On the other hand, if you offer to trade Kolb to the Colts, his Value Rating my be a 60, so you couldn't get as much, because they don't need a starting QB, they have Manning.

This Value Rating would be shown on the trade offer screen, and would potentially be different for every team, and every team would be taking into account if they actually need the player you're offering.

As Madden stands now, you could trade Peyton Manning to the Saints for a 1st round pick and Reggie Bush... which would not happen in a million years. They know Peyton is a great QB, but they don't need him... they have Drew Brees, so although Manning has a 99 Value Rating on the Colts, when you offer him to the Saints, his Value Rating would be about a 70. Nice to have, but not need to have.

This system would also be helpful for progression.

Increasing an OVR rating means increasing a players physical attributes. This seems to be the hold up with gigantic OVR ratings increases in Madden. You don't want a guy to gain like 5 SPD, 8 ACC, 15 TRK, and 12 CTH in one year just to make the OVR go up by 10 or 15 like it should. Nobody PHYSICALLY gets that much better in real life, which is what would have to happen for an OVR increase.

With the Value Rating, a player can still make a realistic attribute jump, but his Value Rating could be increased from a 60 to a 99 in one year if he has a record breaking type of year where he is used a lot.

Statistics would be the direct link to this rating, NOT physical abilities, which is what the OVR represents.

If you are running a Franchise with the Bills, and CJ Spiller has an OVR of 73, and you rush for 2000 yds, 20 TD's, catch 65 passes... the only way for current progression to show him as a 95 OVR, would be to increase all his physical attributes by about 5-10... and if you could get those stats with a 73 OVR, once his attributes are all increased, you're gonna be rushing for 5000 yards a year, which is ridiculous. ALL physical attribute increases should be modest, which is why the OVR rating will never be a true indicator of what we all really want to see in our franchise.

In summary, a Value Rating would reflect on what the player has accomplished, not just his attributes... way more realistic.

60-70% of a players physical attributes would make up the Value Rating, with the other 30-40% would be stats based.

Thanks for taking this into consideration. I look forward to HUGE leaps forward in Madden 12's OFFLINE FRANCHISE.

# 76 Hova57 @ 11/23/10 01:29 PM

overall it seems everyone is in agreement that if the progression and regression worked like its suppose to taking age, talent level and contracts into consideration they would be cool. on the other hand from online perspective having the commish be the rating czar is acceptable alternative.

# 77 brahmagoul @ 11/23/10 01:31 PM

If crashes happen with CPU-controlled teams in the offseason, would it be possible to just allow editing of user-controlled teams? I get the sense people who would want to edit ratings in a franchise mode are those who are control freaks and probably control all 32 teams.

# 78 RedZoneD25 @ 11/23/10 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeks


	It should be replaced by a Value Rating. It would be very similar to an OVR rating, but with a few key differences, that would improve Franchise mode. As it stands now, all of a players attributes combine to show an OVR rating, this rating represents a players physical abilities. A Value Rating would represent that players ability as well as how he fits onto a certain team. Ex. Let's say in Franchise mode, you are playing as the Eagles. On the Eagles, Kevin Kolb's Value Rating is 70 because they have Vick playing out of his mind at QB, but Kolb's still a potential NFL starter. Now let's say you want to trade him... and you offer him to the 49ers. Kolb, in a trade to SF, may have a Value Rating of 93 because he's better than the QB's they have, and would be a great addition to their team. This would allow you to get more from SF because they value what you're offering more. On the other hand, if you offer to trade Kolb to the Colts, his Value Rating my be a 60, so you couldn't get as much, because they don't need a starting QB, they have Manning. This Value Rating would be shown on the trade offer screen, and would potentially be different for every team, and every team would be taking into account if they actually need the player you're offering.

That's almost exactly what I said, damn near exact words bro hahahaha..Great minds think alike!

# 79 falconfansince81 @ 11/23/10 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hova57


	overall it seems everyone is in agreement that if the progression and regression worked like its suppose to taking age, talent level and contracts into consideration they would be cool. on the other hand from online perspective having the commish be the rating czar is acceptable alternative.

wholeheartedly agree with everything (except the last sentence), madden NEEDS a dynamic progression system and even more importantly SEE those player specific ratings really separate the great ones from just the average ones. as far as an online franchise commish playing ratings czar would just cause too much controversy in our leagues lol.

getting to the root of the problem rather than just applying another band aid is what needs done, otherwise i wouldn't even bother wasting anymore time on it if its something than cannot be fixed. im sure this is much easier said than done, but if its not going to work i'd rather see resources invested in other parts that can be fixed.

# 80 TreFacTor @ 11/23/10 02:49 PM

I'm a lifelong franchise player, and I really only want the ability to edit the rosters prior to starting a franchise. Once the franchise is started I don't really change anything with the exception of player names. I feel that Madden has needed a "map editor" of sorts for a long time, but simply being able to edit players and rosters isn't enough. Does the offline franchise player deserve a "GOD Mode"? If they want it, I see no reason why not. It should be an option that can be toggled on and off like any cheat. The issues with corrupted saves and crashing should be a warning to players that they did something that wasn't intended, and the users should backup their saves regularly. I would take it a step further, and allow the user to change schedules, random weather, hire/fire coaches, promote coaches. There needs to be a practice squad even if the players are generic so that players on IR can be moved on and off the depth chart. We need full create a player control with more options for skin, face, body hair.

i know that seems like a wish list for M12 for franchise additions, but the majority of them were features that used to be in the game, but are missing, and all are roster related. (with the exception of schedule making and weather). The rosters are really the tip of the iceberg, but it's a start I guess.

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