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Madden NFL 13 News Post

In episode 230 of Madden Daily, Sgibs revealed that run/pass commit is in Madden 13. Check the video out here:


Also I've already submitted this to the appropriate folks at EA. But this is where the community comes in. If they don't see a big reaction they are not going to address it. So you guys need to chime in. I don't want the Run/Pass Commit in Madden 13 to be like NCAA which is an all or nothing affair and which also does not focus on gap control/force/containment. To me this is EA's chance right here to do something really great. To see run/pass commit in action in Madden 13 see this video: Browns vs Seahawks.


7:18 in this video you see run commit left. I don't like it like this. I don't like the complete nullification of the defensive play called and having everyone sell out. Here is what I sent to the devs.
Can you guys make the following tweaks:

1. The run commit only activates against run plays. This way it operates more like a run fit, which is more realistic than having complete sell outs against the run and plays into their read and react defense theme. Allow Play Recognition to govern whether guys bite on Play Action.

2. When committing left or right, edge defenders; DE's and 3-4 OLB should step up the field and set the edge.

3. All other defenders in the front seven, with the exception of the backside DE or OLB, should simply attack the next gap over.

4. Backside DE/OLB should step up field first as if he is looking for boot action or reverse, then trail the play.

So for the 3-4 for instance you would have something like this


In the above diagram you have the defense in the base 3-4 with the DE's in 5 and the NT head up center. As the diagram shows, all the guys are going to do is hit the next gap over. So if I go run commit right then the DLine should look like this from left to right. B A C. RDE takes backside B gap; NT takes right side A gap; LDE takes right side C gap. RILB has backside A gap, and LILB has front side B gap. Edge players step up and set on the right side; back side player steps into the back field checking for backside boot, reverse and playing cutback. So that would actually look like the following:


Notice the NT LDE and RDE. Based on their alignment they are only going to fire to the next gap over. Also whether the offense runs right or left, there will always be a backside player.

Let's take some other examples from the 4-3 Stack and Over

4-3 Stack

Run commit left here (might be different since the direction is based on looking at the screen and this diagram is at the back of the defense, but you should get the picture)would have Duckett/Seawright firing to C, Jospeh firing to A, Strahan stepping up field to set edge, Osi stepping up field backside looking for boot, reverse, if neither are there trail the play down the line. Pierce has left A then scrape, Arrington left B then scrape (I only advocate this for Madden since all they can probably do is get guys to fire to the next gap over. In real life Duckett Seawright would have B and Arrington would have C) Emmons backside B then scrape.

4-3 Over


Let's go run commit to the right from the backside of the defense. Strahan, backside contain player looking for boot, reverse and then just trailing play; Joseph to A; Duckett/Seawright to B; Osi Fire to C. Arrington checks C; Pierce Check A; In Madden Emmons would be on the line of scrimmage so, Fire up field and set edge.

I would also hope it is clear that run commit does not automatically mean that I stop the run even if I have the "right" fit call. It should mean a great deal given certain offensive plays. For tosses it should work great if I have the right call. But against a wide zone, it should be less automatic because if the linebackers run outta there too quick, cutback lanes should be there, especially if the back side guy over pursues.

This is very important. Please do not have the defenders just arbitrarily running right and left. Have them hit gaps, step up and set the edge, play backside contain, pursuit. This is a chance to do something really nice for run defense IMO.

Pass commit. Can this be used to change the rush angles and engage points of the DE's/3-4 OLB's with the OT's. Can we get the engage point much deeper and closer to the Qb as he is dropping?

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Member Comments
# 121 LBzrule @ 06/22/12 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Palmer
Appreciate the response, shtty. Really good stuff. Really great job of breaking the thing down.



So wouldn't programming gap assignments remedy some of this, because the quoted right here is the one thing on defense that has confounded me in Madden 12. I'm never sure how to play certain runs. I know how it's supposed to be played. I know which gaps should be mine, how the pursuit should come, but it always feels like a crap shoot so I'm better off reverting to the Lavar Arrington style of defense as LBz coined it.

You broke down very well what is needed for a fundamentally sound defense beyond just gap assignments, such as pursuit, etc. But wouldn't a gap assignment logic remedy some of this along the front 7, specifically on the runs away?

Just focusing on the linebackers for a moment, I know that in certain schemes and fronts, the gaps move, so wouldn't it make sense to do something simple like giving 2 gaps to the linebackers' run defense logic along with what seems to be the "area" thing that they already have where they hover until the ball gets to a certain point, just so that how they are attacking instead of waiting? Now the WILL backer will know to go from B to playside A on runs away.

On power plays out of an Over front everyone would just move down a gap similar to how LBz described in his first post. The SAM moves playside B to C, the Middle backer will move weak A to playside B, WILL scrapes from weak B to A.
Senator, I was wondering where me and Mcghee had a disconnect. In my post I was simply describing basic assignments with seven players. He's describing assignments with a coverage call that would drop one of those safeties. So on basic assignments with seven we might simply talk about gaps, but McGhee is right once you drop the safety in a Sky call for instance things can change and do so tremendously. I just don't see this being programmed all that great if at all. For instance on a Sky call, I can see them have the safety creep down but not charge/attack down hill like he should as if he knew he had force on run plays. Rather I see it programmed as, him creeping down because his zone takes him there and he plays a soft force.

Now I will say this too. Some coaches may just have a different way of doing things. For instance, let's take a look at the Under Front or what Leo Hand and some others call Weak Eagle Front.



Hand and some others have basic assignments for each player such as run toward, do this. Run away, do that. Pass, depends on stunt and coverage. I'm not sure how EA approaches that when as has been said, for years their game had the second level defender always start with pass if you called a zone coverage.

Just looking at the diagram above for basic assignments here is how many do it:

BILB (Backside ILB)
Keys: Near Guard; backfield flow
Responsibilities vs 2 back: Run toward = Scrape Outside and Contain; Run-Away Scrape and work downhill; check and may plug backside A gap pursuing football from inside out. Pass play - check stunt and coverage call.

Mike (Strong ILB)
Keys: Near Guard Backfield Flow; Tackle
Responsibilities vs 2 back: Run toward = B Gap; Run away = Secure weak A gap then pursue football from inside out. Pass - check stunt and coverage call.

Stud/Sam (SOLB)
Keys: TE; Near Back, Pulling Linemen; Football
Responsibilities vs 2 Back: Run Toward D gap; Run away = Stunt coverage call; Pass = Stunt coverage call.

Weak DE
Keys: Tackle and ball movement; secondary key is near back, pulling linemen
Responsibilities: Run toward C gap; Run Away = check bootleg, counter and reverse then chase looking for cutback. Pass = contains the rush.


Need I keep going? They aint gonna program all of that for the basic front seven with let's just say cover 2 in the secondary and then have it change up if you call sky coverage in the secondary. I just don't see them doing all that work. That would solve the problem. But I don't see them doing all that. At best I see them giving us something basic and hopefully that will be functional. This is just basic assignments, we are not even talking about different types of reactions vs weak side sweep, strong side sweep, Off Tackle strong weak ect. Then maybe having to alter that against single back slot set. They aint gonna do all of that. It's gotta be basic.
 
# 122 shttymcgee @ 06/22/12 08:59 AM
Palmer,

I feel like LB's were assigned gaps you might still have the same problem you were describing earlier. If a LB is assigned his near B-gap and the run goes away, is he just going to plug his gap and not pursue the ball? The only time (that i can think of off the top of my head) when a defender can just be accountable for his gap, regardless of the direction of the ball, is on split-zone/1 back zone plays.

LBZ,

I can't see that stuff being programmed either. I feel like the game could get by with 2 main aspects of pursuit being represented properly:
1. Leverage - when the ball is ran at a defender (or a lead blocker), should the defender attempt to turn the ball back inside or spill it laterally
2. Pursuit - when the ball is ran away from a defender, should the player pursue inside-out or should he run over the top.

These are determined by the coverage called and the front structure and if combined with better force representation, the run defense could be much improved.

I feel that is really what LB play boils down to anyway; running to open gaps at the appropriate angle and understanding how to leverage blocks.
 
# 123 WildFan22 @ 09/23/12 12:49 AM
Is anyone using Run/Pass commit in Madden 13. If so do you think it's too effective especially against the CPU?
 


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