09:31 AM - April 29, 2013 by jpdavis82
UTC has posted their Madden NFL 25 gameplay roundtable. A few of the guys there have had hands-on time with the game.
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Madden NFL 25 News Post
09:31 AM - April 29, 2013 by jpdavis82UTC has posted their Madden NFL 25 gameplay roundtable. A few of the guys there have had hands-on time with the game.
Madden NFL 25 Videos
Member Comments
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In any case, not sure how anyone can look at PS2/XBOX Madden and say that it animated well, let alone animated better than that of it's NFL 2K counterpart, so I guess all I can say is, ok lol.
As for the point that past generations can't be judged because they were too primitive? I don't get that. 8bit graphics are terrible in retrospect, but that doesn't mean that there aren't 8bit games that look better than others.
Graphics and animations can be, and should be, up for comparisons to games from that same era, regardless of when they were made. I can't see any circumstance where this would not be the case.
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I don't remember which Madden for sure but a PS2 Madden had a pretty good realistic body lean when turning - only problem was no foot-planting.
You can disagree all you want but the running animations for every game we have seen this gen are terrible, especially when you look back at 05-07 Madden on PS2.
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Maybe I am a harsher critic. Maybe the animations from this gen have traumatized people so much that they will accept anything remotely better. I don't know. All I know is that last gen animations are in NO WAY realistic. Better than this gen does not equate to realistic. That goes for special moves, turning, running in a straight line, whatever. All bad.
I want actual pseudo realistic animations on this gen as well as the next. I cringe everytime I see posts say "Just give us the same animations as PS2." All I can say is please, by all that is good, no.
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My point is they went backwards in a big way (fluidity, stride length, body lean) on this gen and maybe they should look at the animations they have in house - and use what they did well on PS2 as a launching point to get better. 360/PS3 run animation is so terrible, that they need to do something about it.
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I've seen too many other games, outside of sports games even, with MUCH better animations than this gen or last gen, to think that they can't do much better than both.
Let the past go man lol. Those old animations were no watermark. Not by a longshot.
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Well first of all, from my perception, this game will be very very bad. That mixed with I hate EA sports guts says a lot. I don't care if you can't get everything in the game all at once. I'm tellin' ya if this game sucks I'll grab a clothes hanger and hang myself in the closet..LMBO man I'm just playin'. Overall this review makes me excited to see all of this stuff in action. What I really can't wait for is the next gen stuff. I'm really excited to see how much they will utilize the extra space on next gen.
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Lastly, realize that there are a few of us that founded and own the site, not just one. One of the hardest things we deal with is having multiple opinions and varied support for each title. That's why a lot of what we do is based on roundtables and multiple opinions because we don't want one guy coming off as biased based on the fact he went to a community day or what have you. That's why we try to stray away from reviews and personal opinions without a second voice.
While I understand your reservations in regards to some writers (personal opinion), all I ask is that you judge and base your feelings on the actual content and overall package. Not one guy. I think the writing itself proves we aren't throwing a bunch of positives out there with no real issues. I, in fact, think the issues are real and are a problem. I'll always try to support community regards, but I'm only one person.
By all means, ignore UTC if you wish but I can assure you we have a multitude of different voices and a vision that puts honesty and community first. But this was founded by a bunch, not one.
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On 8-bit and 16-bit football video games - my recollection is that the concept of a wrap tackle didn't exist. All tackles were defenders diving at the ball carrier with one eight-angle sprite animation to choose from. To that end making a comparison isn't particularly useful. Either way, bringing up sprite-based games isn't relevant to the quality of the current game, as 2D and 3D are two entirely different animals.
As to Madden on Gen-6 and Gen-7 consoles being animated poorly, you're going to have to give specific examples because I simply don't see poor quality animations, any glaring issues with the inverse kinematics or in blending animations together, or what have you. There is player warping on occasion, and I allow that this has historically been a point of frustration in Madden, but all animation-driven sports games have warping to some extent. I think there are also issues where certain situations do not have proper animations placed into the game - OL/DL battles come to mind - but the animations present in the game and how they trigger and execute by and large all fit a football context as well.
I'm not going to entertain specific comparisons to other games because that is a no-no in the Madden forum.
In any case, I invite you to be more specific to your point that Madden animates poorly. I could be missing something.
# 30
CT Pitbull @ 04/29/13 09:19 PM
Either way i think we can all agree that EA football, in general, is at a critical tipping point with their customers. Or should i say their hardcore customers. I have a funny feeling that if they cant nail this thing down in the next year or two, someone else may be willing to take a a crack at it. Even if its NOT a licensed product. At this point guys like us are soo "quality football game starved" that we dont care if the game has the real logos and players or not. I for one could care less at this point i just wanna play a great game of football before im 50 years old. Like someone in this thread said if the guys at BB accually had a clue about american football that game might have been the start of something special. Who's to say another gaming group doesnt come together with a similar, more advanced, effort with their finger on the pulse of what guys like us are looking for? Maybe its just wishful thinking. Or maybe EA will get there act together sooner than later.
The running game has never been the biggest problem in the next generation of Madden Games. It's been the people who never throw a pass further than 5 yards and can stay in a game. If you play someone who really knows how to play Madden. Far as reading passing windows and not looking to throw a screen or a crossing route all game. It's a great game.
The problem is that you can actually be successful at the game never having to throw further than 5 yards.
That's the BS that ruins the game online. If you can't read a passing window you shouldn't be allowed to be able to move the ball. That's the NFL.
Imagine Jimmy Clausen being successful in the NFL. Well you can basically do the only thing he can do and be in a game in Madden.
I have played people that only throw crossing routes and screen passes. . That's what makes the game suck. I would love for them to bring the passing window back but since most Madden players online have no idea how to maneuver safeties and only are looking to throw 5 yard passes. They would stop buying the game.
The problem is that you can actually be successful at the game never having to throw further than 5 yards.
That's the BS that ruins the game online. If you can't read a passing window you shouldn't be allowed to be able to move the ball. That's the NFL.
Imagine Jimmy Clausen being successful in the NFL. Well you can basically do the only thing he can do and be in a game in Madden.
I have played people that only throw crossing routes and screen passes. . That's what makes the game suck. I would love for them to bring the passing window back but since most Madden players online have no idea how to maneuver safeties and only are looking to throw 5 yard passes. They would stop buying the game.
I see people online trying to defend me. They are playing the MLB looking constantly for the crossing route. When I learned how to call a game from the Ernie Zampese tree. I look down the field then look for shorter routes. I read the safeties to let me know what defense your in. That's how I have always played Madden.
Just to show off how great a I am at passing I never throw crossing routes or screens. They were never a staple in his playbook.
Just to show off how great a I am at passing I never throw crossing routes or screens. They were never a staple in his playbook.
# 33
Yeah...THAT Guy @ 04/29/13 10:35 PM
One of the things I didn't really like was in regards to the fatigue bar. I thought it was supposed to be cumulative. That's really disappointing IMO. I thought this would allow you to wear a defense down throughout the game.
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On the 8bit thing. I'm with you that the level of sophistication on those games makes it seem like there is no point to even talk about them when you have experienced the renaissance of gaming that we have now, but that doesn't mean that they were all created equally or that I , at least, can't see that there were things that some devs did better using the same tech.
On the PS1, Tiburon said that a polygon based Football game on that hardware wasn't possible. Gameday comes out, and they say... oops. Did 989 have access to a more powerful dev console than Tiburon? Absolutely not. That's just an example of a dev doing more with the same hardware than another, in general, EA/Tiburon in particular. I could cite many more but I'll stop there and get back to 8bit.
Though these two games are 8bit, I think that it is still easy to see that one is doing much more than the other. Don't know if you were a big Football VG fan on NES, but if you played Tecmo Bowl, you know that the game was a classic, but pretty limited. Had only 7 or 8 players, can't remember, and the graphics were good at the time, but it was a very flat 2D feeling game. Fast forward to when Play-Action Football came out and I can't see how it isn't readily apparent that this game is doing much more with the same hardware. The graphics were noticeably better, even for 8bit. It had 11 on 11. Had many more than 4 plays. Had better game play, and felt more 3D even though it was a 2D sprite game as well. Those games were not created equal. One pushed the envelope much further on the same hardware. That's the only point I was making. Whether it was graphics, animation, or actual voice over play by play, Madden's counterparts always seemed to push the envelope a little further, regardless of hardware. I just focused on the animation piece because that was what we were talking about. With that I'll get back to PS2 and Madden animations.
Without the benefit of being able to view YouTube at work, to get a video and dissect it and attach it to this post for comment, it is hard to explain what is wrong with the animations, but I'll try.
The animations on PS2 Madden were fairly smooth. They have that going for them. No hitching like current gen. There was no foot planting on PS2 though. There was no realistic body lean for change of direction. You basically just swerved when you made a turn kind of like how you did in Super Mario brothers if you were sprinting but then tried to stop. You would hold the joystick left but you would still be sliding right until you slowed down enough to start going left. It wasn't as exaggerated as it was on Super Mario, but that's the best way I can describe locomotion on PS2. It was sluggish and sliding and not at all realistic. The straight-line running does not look like a human running to me either. It looks better than current gen running, but it doesn't look like a human running either. It looks like a little kid taking choppy little steps at best, but definitely not like a premier athlete running. There is no indication of weight, The feet barely impact the ground and sudden changes in direction would induce a moonwalk. Yeah, I don't get why people are infatuated with those animations.
As far as special moves go it gets much, much worse. The juke was comical. Looks like you jump up from being scared to death and holler "help me Jesus!" The spin is the most absurd thing in the history of gaming. You could spin a distance of close to 10yds (slight exaggeration). How many highlight reels of Madden include kickoff or punt returns with people doing something superhuman with the spin move? Hell pretty much any sweep play or outside run done by a player online BEGINS with the spin move because it immediately spins you past the outside contain!
Now contrast that with 2K. The jukes look infinitely more realistic. Include a head fake like a real juke and can be chained together. The spin on 2K does not go anywhere. It is like how a spin is used in real life. To break out of a tackle or to prevent a defender from getting their hands on you or a good shot on you. No one spins 8yds out of the way and leaves a defender in a cloud of dust. I won't even go into the fact that there is foot planting, leaning, implied player weight, and a much better representation of momentum than the sliding that is/was Madden on last gen.
Really have no idea how anyone can prefer Madden animations to any other Football game (even NFL Fever animated better). The same goes for pretty much any EA Sports game. Live compared to NBA2k is like the Heat vs The Bucks. Top Spin vs Grand Slam Tennis? Again, I'll quit while I'm behind.
Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, but I don't see much beauty in the way that any Madden game animates, or how their player models are drawn. If others do, then there is nothing I can say that will make them see what their eyes apparently are not.
Long article full of much hope and and potential in the round table. Though I quit following Madden designers/devs a couple years back, to this day I still don't know how anyone could sit down and play a game of Madden and not express concern or identify ongoing unaddressed issues related to most of the new features that have been announced for Madden 25. As a minor example, focusing on the running game, without fixing movement/locomotion throughout the game seems to be a focus on hype rather than substance to this gamer. Won't go further, as the forums are full of gamer angst across the board of elements that criss-cross the announced features.
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It won't take long to know if this is the case or not, but I'm thinking with the next gen consoles we will have a completely different player movement engine which will also give us new ol/dl and wr/db interactions. For next gen I expect to see these improvements, as well as IE 3.0, new sideline models and interactions, and as I mentioned a complete overhaul in player movement, eliminating static movement and hunch back running.
I also believe that on May 21st we will get a teaser of the next gen Madden and at E3 an even bigger one.
if fullbacks, guards and tight ends block who i want them to.... i might not have to pass so much. I hate having to throw 60-70% of the time because my power O or I-form don't work as they should.
oh and i also forgot to ask if there are going to be chip blocks? Like the blue routes that we have now for TEs and RBs... They should chip the DE or LB before they run their flat or whatever. I believe the RBs just stand in the backfield for a second. I also think the TEs should be able to swim past the guy they are blocking (letting him go) instead of being stuck and not running their route.
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Well, that and the terrible zone play make the short passing game overtly successful as the defense plays terrible in zone and never adjusts to repeated "strategies".
It feels like EA is making a concerted effort to make amends for these poor choices, but we are still waiting for features from legacy gen and I think it is directly related to those years where EA relied far too heavily on the tourney crowd for feedback. Thus they set the game back years and years - same with "grass graphics junkies" who got what they wanted - I can now pick out individual blades of grass, which adds absolutely zero to the experience. Really, I never notice the dang grass in actual NFL games, so why do I care about seeing "individual blades" in my dang video game.
But hey, thanks for the great graphics - you know I would rather have "signature running styles" and "signature throwing motions/drop backs" but thanks for the great grass it really makes it better when I am watching 22 players who run exactly the same way...
And for the record I want both great graphics and game play, but its a game not a painting and game play should always be first and foremost - if one or the other has to suffer - then graphics be blanked!!!
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