NBA 2K14 News Post

The Tough Road of Being a Sports Developer, Featuring Mike Wang

06:48 PM - August 19, 2013 by Steve_OS

The grind of a yearly sports videogame can work the nerves in so many different ways. GameSpot has posted an interesting look behind the scenes with NBA 2K14 lead gameplay designer, Mike Wang. Make sure you give it a read, you might learn a few things.

Quote:


	Wang believes that developers given multiple years to fulfill their vision have an inherent advantage over those who work on a yearly schedule. "[Sports developers] don't have the liberty of a two- or three-year cycle," he said, "so you don't get to see these big jumps." Because there isn't an obvious technical leap from one entry of NBA 2K to the next, a layman may not recognize how dramatic the improvements are. But if you compare every second or third entry in the series--putting NBA2K on the same development timeline as other franchises--you can see a jump that's on par with its more respected peers. ..."If we're at that point where we feel we can't innovate any further, we can't take the game any further, then we shouldn't be here."

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Member Comments

# 21 RyanFitzmagic @ 08/20/13 09:55 AM

I definitely understand how tough it is to be a sports video game developer, since the fanbase is so polarized amongst hardcore sim players, casual players, and everything in between.

However, as I feel is the case with all relationships, I believe that the people who work on the game should reach out to the community and try their best to communicate. Communication is one of the keys to a healthy, successful relationship, because it leads to understanding, and understanding mitigates anger and frustration.

2K13 is a good example. For whatever reason, we couldn't save slider sets individually or upload them to 2K Share, even though that feature has been in the NBA 2K games for a while. A lot of people (including myself) really aren't happy about that, and the reason is that we don't know why it was removed. Was it just laziness? Forgetfulness? Was there actually something wrong with the game engine or something that didn't allow them to include that feature?

If it was the very latter, and the 2K dev team let us know such on the forums, I don't see how anyone could be upset. But when 2K doesn't do that, and they fail to recognize or even acknowledge (as far as I've seen) that very problem, people react negatively, because we deserve to know.

No one's even mentioned if things like that will be fixed in 2K14. Same as the broken subs and disgustingly predictable timeout patterns of the CPU. Same as the inability to remove a Signature Skill once it's assigned to a player. Same as the removal of the grades for different shot types (Euro Step, Spin Jumper, Stepback, etc.) that individual players had. Same as nearly half the plays in the game being broken and set plays being terminated mid-play for seemingly no reason.

Communication is all I want. I don't even necessarily think that omissions like I listed above are as big a transgression as it is to keep all of us in the dark about why these things were omitted and/or if they're taking steps to fix them. That's not fair to us. Because then we don't know whether or not to buy the next game. We don't know if it'll be fixed or not. We don't know if it's even possible for 2K to fix it.

Knowing is always better than not knowing, especially in this context.

# 22 Optik @ 08/20/13 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryantheplague


	honestly, why don't they go to releasing a 2k every 2 years? the off year they can fix a lot of issues with roster patches. i mean, look at how good beds rosters are vs the default rosters.

Their contract with the NBA states that they have to release a game every year.

# 23 VDusen04 @ 08/20/13 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic


	If it was the very latter, and the 2K dev team let us know such on the forums, I don't see how anyone could be upset. But when 2K doesn't do that, and they fail to recognize or even acknowledge (as far as I've seen) that very problem, people react negatively, because we deserve to know.

I definitely feel you on your emotions in this one, but I've always kind of wondered if transparency is as simple and easy as we wish it were. I have to think some companies may have official approaches of how to handle dysfunctional portions of their products, right? As in, maybe 2K wants to avoid or limit how many times they come out and say, "Hey, sorry, that part's broken this year" or "Yeah, totally didn't have enough time, hopefully next year we'll have it done."

Again, I totally agree that it'd be nice to hear or know more about the process and why things are or are not addressed. Sometimes it honestly feels like 2K is blatantly ignoring something when in reality perhaps there's an unusually complicated solution they can't quite put their finger on yet. So as much as I'd like more communication, I kind of temper those emotions in conjunction with my uncertainty of the process.

# 24 RyanFitzmagic @ 08/20/13 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	Sometimes it honestly feels like 2K is blatantly ignoring something when in reality perhaps there's an unusually complicated solution they can't quite put their finger on yet.

But wouldn't hearing 2K say this be better than hearing nothing?

# 25 Boilerbuzz @ 08/20/13 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mango_prom


	A link to the article is going to become the standard response to any negative feedback towards 2k14 on this site, lol. I agree. On the one hand, I know that developing a game is harder than I might think. But since they're talking about year one of a feature is alpha stage, and it gets fixed and perfected the year after...well association has been a mess for 10 years now, the touches system was broken in all 3 games since introduced, rosters have been highly inaccurate for I don't know how long now. And it's not like this stuff means asking for huge new features. Just making things already in the game work as they should. That's where 2k should show progress with 2k14, otherwise I'm not buying it. I want to, but if they didn't improve some key issues, why should I?

Jones and Wang's group don't do franchise mode. So why assume the groups work the same way and also assume nothing's been done with franchise. It is like you guys want to convince yourself to complain about something. Don't you get tired of operating on ignorance?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

# 26 xrobbyh14x @ 08/20/13 10:16 AM

This should be required reading for everyone that complains the games aren't perfect. I work in web development and our programmers ought to just have cots by their desks sometimes they work so much. Life ain't what it seems...

# 27 Boilerbuzz @ 08/20/13 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goffs


	hmmm maybe keep it in house....they did this with the next gen version but I'm thinking long term...it's actually not a bad idea if you think about it. They can just expand the team a bit. Let's say the other team can work on something for 2 years? Mike and the gang are pretty passionate and they can check up and help whenever they can....

VC doesn't carry enough staff for some reason or another. Must be hard to get in. Once you're in, people seem to stay there. But that would be a good idea.

Do agree.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

# 28 VDusen04 @ 08/20/13 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic


	But wouldn't hearing 2K say this be better than hearing nothing?

For you and me personally? Yes. But maybe as a company, they've decided to go in a direction that won't leave them openly admitting their shortcomings for every part of their product. We would like the honesty of, "Sorry, we just dropped the ball on that one, Kyle Singler's face is pretty jacked up" but I feel as though a company would not support such admissions, as honest and forthright as they may be, on a regular basis. I think they'd likely prefer uncertainty and rumors of lackluster aspects, as opposed to flat out telling their potential consumers about every single pock.

# 29 Goffs @ 08/20/13 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	Jones and Wang's group don't do franchise mode. So why assume the groups work the same way and also assume nothing's been done with franchise. It is like you guys want to convince yourself to complain about something. Don't you get tired of operating on ignorance? Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Wait, wait...you mean there are more than one person other than Wang and Jones working on the game?!

Jeez it must get annoying for those guys.....Mike is pretty much the gameplay guru and I remember when he posted here and a Crewbie came in complaining about the lack of crew in game....now we are going to hear it from ASSociation guys....smh....

How about we wait about association news before saying they did nothing and if it remains the same THEN complain ffs....

# 30 Boilerbuzz @ 08/20/13 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mango_prom


	That's a thing I never understood about MyPlayer/MyCareer...why do people care so much about this game mode, when it's really just association with controls locked to 1 player? I've created myself in past games, too. But why would I need an extra mode for this? Create player -> Start Association -> Play games with my alter ego. Honestly, what's the point of MyPlayer/MyCareer as a separate mode? It could be integrated into an improved association mode without any loss of features. The only benefit of having it separate is that you can use it as a marketing gimmick, but what's the big deal really? Why can't they include the MyPlayer part as an option into normal association and focus on improving the mode as a whole instead of focusing on gimmicks?

On point. Under My Player is the franchise code. It has to be right. But what I don't get is the claim they haven't touched it. Then what has Simballer and his group been doing? Picking their noses? I am sure OS has archives of the franchise mode Dev diaries. You guys can't say Association hasn't been touched.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

# 31 Boilerbuzz @ 08/20/13 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryantheplague


	honestly, why don't they go to releasing a 2k every 2 years? the off year they can fix a lot of issues with roster patches. i mean, look at how good beds rosters are vs the default rosters.

How many times must this be answered?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

# 32 RyanFitzmagic @ 08/20/13 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	I think they'd likely prefer uncertainty and rumors of lackluster aspects, as opposed to flat out telling their potential consumers about every single pock.

Not every single one, necessarily. Just the ones that the community clearly care a lot about and that have been in previous iterations. If it's been in games prior, it should be possible to keep it in the game, or put it back in.

But I do see and understand your perspective.

# 33 Da_Czar @ 08/20/13 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	On point. Under My Player is the franchise code. It has to be right. But what I don't get is the claim they haven't touched it. Then what has Simballer and his group been doing? Picking their noses? I am sure OS has archives of the franchise mode Dev diaries. You guys can't say Association hasn't been touched. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

I think they are referring to lingering issues they feel ruin the mode. The hyperbole of hasn't been touched get's thrown around way too much. But I believe they are looking for a good remake since the skin of it and the lingering issues have been around for awhile.

# 34 RyanFitzmagic @ 08/20/13 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goffs


	How about we wait about association news before saying they did nothing and if it remains the same THEN complain ffs....

The fact that 2K removed numerous favored features in 2K13 alone probably gives people the right to voice their skepticism that the same thing won't happen.

# 35 VDusen04 @ 08/20/13 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	On point. Under My Player is the franchise code. It has to be right. But what I don't get is the claim they haven't touched it. Then what has Simballer and his group been doing? Picking their noses? I am sure OS has archives of the franchise mode Dev diaries. You guys can't say Association hasn't been touched. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

I'm not sure if people mean "untouched" literally. I'll go and try to find some Association Insight threads after this. I think people were more likely saying "barely touched", as in barely anything being noticeably added or improved. I remember them adding some CBA rules and 10 day contracts (I think). I do not recall the last major improvement though. I'll give it a look.

# 36 Boilerbuzz @ 08/20/13 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	For you and me personally? Yes. But maybe as a company, they've decided to go in a direction that won't leave them openly admitting their shortcomings for every part of their product. We would like the honesty of, "Sorry, we just dropped the ball on that one, Kyle Singler's face is pretty jacked up" but I feel as though a company would not support such admissions, as honest and forthright as they may be, on a regular basis. I think they'd likely prefer uncertainty and rumors of lackluster aspects, as opposed to flat out telling their potential consumers about every single pock.

But they do that when they announce things like a new blocking system.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

# 37 Boilerbuzz @ 08/20/13 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goffs


	Wait, wait...you mean there are more than one person other than Wang and Jones working on the game?! Jeez it must get annoying for those guys.....Mike is pretty much the gameplay guru and I remember when he posted here and a Crewbie came in complaining about the lack of crew in game....now we are going to hear it from ASSociation guys....smh.... How about we wait about association news before saying they did nothing and if it remains the same THEN complain ffs....

Exactly! Everyone here that's older than 12 knows Simballer is the franchise guy. He's been hiding out in the bushes. Wait for him to come out before crying about franchise.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

# 38 mango_prom @ 08/20/13 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	On point. Under My Player is the franchise code. It has to be right. But what I don't get is the claim they haven't touched it. Then what has Simballer and his group been doing? Picking their noses? I am sure OS has archives of the franchise mode Dev diaries. You guys can't say Association hasn't been touched. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Don't know if you're referring to my post in particular, but since you've quoted me specifically...where did I say they "haven't touched it"? That's a whole different thing than saying that certain areas were given less attention than others or that in my opinion the focus was on other things. But since you've brought things "not touched" up, then yes, rookie generation logic/progression is pretty much as bad as it has been since 2k3. That's not hyberbole. AI playcalling? Broken outside of default rosters since 2k11. I mean if you enjoy the game and don't mind certain issues, that's cool. But I think it's alright to point certain shortcomings out.

# 39 VDusen04 @ 08/20/13 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	But they do that when they announce things like a new blocking system. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Righto. I don't know how they truly operate in terms of what they're willing to admit and how. That said, I think admitting a game's shortcomings only when you've replaced them with something new and better is lot different than admitting a game's downfalls when there's no solution yet. In the former, you're advertising your new product and how great it is. In the latter, you're just saying your current product is lackluster in some regard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	I'm not sure if people mean "untouched" literally. I'll go and try to find some Association Insight threads after this. I think people were more likely saying "barely touched", as in barely anything being noticeably added or improved. I remember them adding some CBA rules and 10 day contracts (I think). I do not recall the last major improvement though. I'll give it a look.

Also, for whatever it's worth, I can't find any real offline Association news releases via a quick search (though I'm admittedly poor at OS searches). I did, however, find a thread from 2011 that's eerily similar to ones I've been seeing floating around here lately. It even has the tried and true KyotoCarl seal of assurance on page 1: http://www.osatwork.com/forums/showt...ht+association

# 40 RyanFitzmagic @ 08/20/13 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	In the latter, you're just saying your current product is lackluster in some regard.

I'm not sure if you're saying this with a positive or negative connotation. I don't think 2K doing this would be bad-- it'd be faults that pretty much all of us already know exist.

Plus, they're essentially doing the same thing (admitting shortcomings) when they release patches.

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