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NBA 2K15 News Post


(Promoting this post to the homepage, written by Mike Wang, Sr. Game Designer for NBA 2K15)

Let me clarify up the design of the shot meter. In previous 2K's, shot timing was just another factor within a huge list of other things that spit out a final shot % which we then rolled dice against. So really, it was Real Player % with a bit of help from the user. But the skill of the user had a minimal impact.

In 2K15, all factors that make up a good vs. bad shot get rolled up into a value that then scales the timing window for your jump shooter. So now, timing is a much more crucial factor in whether you make or miss. This puts the onus on the user to execute with more precision and separates the skilled users from the lucky ones. It's actually very similar to the design of Free Throw shooting. You can make the shot if you manage to get perfect timing but your % falls the further you are from the ideal release point. If you're way off, it's a guaranteed miss.

It's also a much more useful feedback system. If you're unfamiliar with your players, it's much easier to get a sense of their timing by glancing at the meter. Also, it's much easier to see how close or off you were with your timing after the fact to help you learn... much more useful than the letter grade system (which is still an option btw.)

My intention was never to make shooting a "meter game." The most successful people in the office are the ones who still watch the shot animations for visual cues of when to release, using the meter only for feedback or for occasional guidance.

I knew there would be some concerns, so let me try to address those now:

- No, you cannot "master" the meter and hit every shot you take
- Yes, you can turn it off in the options menu
- Yes, Real FG% is still an option
- Yes, it is very difficult to get "perfect timing," especially on the higher levels

Hopefully that clears some things up. IMO, shooting is much more engaging now and I think you guys will like the feature.

Game: NBA 2K15Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments
# 81 turty11 @ 08/16/14 12:58 AM
you can turn it off man...
 
# 82 Rockie_Fresh88 @ 08/16/14 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.Coach2K.com
The main problem I've had with shooting from a defensive point of view is that basically there are those spots on the floor that always go in and good players just get to those spots with any player and it's a bucket even on HOF sim sliders assuming a shot contest was not directly in front of the shooter. You get to where you just guard the spot and not the man.

The other thing that appears to be true - and may not be -is it feels that you have a higher chance of hitting a shot after a stick move to escape than a normal set shot.

And then if you put that into a quick match situation where they flat out run around to get to them and it has no affect on the shot, it seems odd that the success rate, currently is just as high.

I've been literally torched by Durant from three with an absolute obscene number of threes before.

All of this sounds good and all (especially the fatigue part which will probably lead to double and triple timeouts in a row lol), but I think a lot of it will be determined by the shot release a player is assigned. I've felt some teams and players have been "handicapped" with tougher releases where other teams (New York) get the benefit of easier releases.

I could hit threes all game with Orlando Johnson just because he was easier to shoot with the release he was given and I think that's what some of the posters above were eluding too.

The shot release given to a player might still play the biggest factor.
I was just thinking all this especially the bold . Players like Jr Smith are better than Joe Johnson in this game b/c of release , speed , athleticism . Same with Amare, Blake compared to Love and Duncan

On another note I seem to have better games with feedback off in 14
 
# 83 L_Diddy @ 08/16/14 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrleaderboards
[/b]

I always come across a casual gamer that will try and exploit the game by running I so with PG or Durant or D Rose and try to go off with that one player. Not say that those players don't have the ability to go off, but I don't know...maybe the chemistry should play abfactor in the game.

Like for example, if you start chucking up shots with Durant, the AI Westbrook won't pass you the ball for a few plays or AI Ibaka & Perkins will stop hustling for rebounds the less touches they get.

I don't know...I'm just making up stuff as I go along, all I know is that we can't enable casuals to play wreckless and then reward them on top of it.
Some pretty good ideas there actually. I dont play online so its not something that really applies to me. But even if im playing offline sometimes i can get carried away when im playing with melo and kd. That could be something that stop me from trying to spam them to much when i shouldnt be.
 
# 84 leryan07 @ 08/16/14 01:41 AM
lol i thought it has always been this way. no wonder why on 2k14 next gen if you have a very late release u can still make it. i swear they said that shot meter was in back in 2k13 and 2k12
 
# 85 Ghostf4cekhila1234 @ 08/16/14 01:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mars5541
I was just thinking all this especially the bold . Players like Jr Smith are better than Joe Johnson in this game b/c of release , speed , athleticism . Same with Amare, Blake compared to Love and Duncan

On another note I seem to have better games with feedback off in 14
jr smith is easier to play with he's not better than joe johnson if you know hot to use him imo
 
# 86 23 @ 08/16/14 01:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turty11
this is all i could think of

More of a pump shot on the move when someone is trying to block your shot.. that's def. not it though.
 
# 87 grodbetatted @ 08/16/14 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turty11
you can turn it off man...
shouldn't be added in the first place... This shot meter stuff just started in NBA 2k14 before that people just shot and learned the releases of players
 
# 88 Rockie_Fresh88 @ 08/16/14 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostf4cekhila1234
jr smith is easier to play with he's not better than joe johnson if you know hot to use him imo
Should've clarified what I'm saying . I prefer to use Joe. I mean playing online it's easier to get torched by Jr Smith. He's faster , shot is much quicker , has stronger dunk animations . Meanwhile Joe Is slower and has a much slower release . Tends to layup more than dunk in traffic.
 
# 89 Rockie_Fresh88 @ 08/16/14 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
More of a pump shot on the move when someone is trying to block your shot.. that's def. not it though.
Almost like an and1 type of shot ? Like this but on a jumper ?

http://youtu.be/ieK5Y8g8gOw
 
# 90 quehouston @ 08/16/14 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybudd
Some elaboration is needed.



Why, what makes it master proof?
Shot contests are one of the factors that go into how big or small your release window is, along with ratings, fatigue, whether he was squared up or off balance, etc. All those factors form the size of your shot window, which you are trying to hit. Its master proof because there are almost an infinite amount of different factors that could change the size of your window.

Your player could be fresh, at 85 energy, 74 energy, 19 energy etc. You could be off balance in your hot zone, or maybe squared up in a cold zone. You could be wide open, being contested by a 5'8" Isaiah Thomas, or a 7' Javale Mcgee. You could have a 90 midrange rating, or 79 midrange rating etc. You could be playing on pro, all star, or HOF.

ALL of those things are gonna affect the size of the window. Plus it was stated that is is difficult to get a perfect release on the higher levels. Which means if your are taking an extremely bad shot on HOF that doesn't really allow for any wiggle room on the meter, that shot is gonna miss unless you get a perfect release, period. THATS why it can't be mastered, you're never gonna have a set window size.

I personally love the system. We are actually gonna have to work and focus to dig ourselves out of holes. We will actually feel the pressure of big shots down the stretch. Shooting takes focus, and I love that 2k is actually focusing on depicting that. I'll be using this setting, but there is nothing stopping anyone from going back to Real Player %.
 
# 91 Sundown @ 08/16/14 02:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrleaderboards
[/b]

I always come across a casual gamer that will try and exploit the game by running I so with PG or Durant or D Rose and try to go off with that one player. Not say that those players don't have the ability to go off, but I don't know...maybe the chemistry should play abfactor in the game.

Like for example, if you start chucking up shots with Durant, the AI Westbrook won't pass you the ball for a few plays or AI Ibaka & Perkins will stop hustling for rebounds the less touches they get.

I don't know...I'm just making up stuff as I go along, all I know is that we can't enable casuals to play wreckless and then reward them on top of it.
I was really hoping last year's emotion badges would also play into team chemistry negatively in games. Like Alpha dogs get unhappy when they don't get enough shots or are a big part of the scoring load. So you couldn't put a Kobe with Carmelo and with a Harden together and necessarily keep them all happy in games (and in association).

I also think it'd be amazing to have players start to cool down and get disengaged on offense or defense if they're not getting their expected amount of touches, and if the teammate grades for shots and ball hogging affected team momentum/chemistry/energy for non MyPlayer games as well. It would reinforce good, realistic team basketball (even teams with a ball dominant superstar don't have him shoot every shot), as well as affect how you build teams in association and even in MyPlayer!

The shot fatigue feature might fix a lot of superstar chucking issues but not sure if it would address ill-fitting unrealistic superstar teams. I think it may actually encourage them so you have more superstars to take shots with to combat shot fatigue.

Speaking of Emotion Badges, Curry should absolutely not have Volume Shooter. He often lays off shooting to distribute and then goes into Curry mode in second halves of games. I believe that should be replaced with Clutch. Last year, Curry lead the league for most of the season in 4th quarter points, hit a few game winners, and had some interesting stat like leading the league and tying Damian Lillard in clutch go-ahead baskets with 24 seconds to go.

Curry's current badges has him best played like gamers play Curry-- not how Curry actually plays Curry.

/requisite mancrush
 
# 92 23 @ 08/16/14 02:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mars5541
Almost like an and1 type of shot ? Like this but on a jumper ?

http://youtu.be/ieK5Y8g8gOw
Yeah.. the way you described it but it would be more of a way to evade the defense or rather getting your shot blocked on an aggressive contest...

Not necessarily this actual execution of it here but similar idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_0SDsJPqmQ

Can't find one yet but I will...would be interesting how that kind of shot would fit in with this metered release
 
# 93 Beluba @ 08/16/14 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrleaderboards
Me being someone who likes to see guys play like their counterparts, I have a question I'd like to ask that hasn't been brought up yet.



Can big time scorers like Melo, Durant, Curry, Kobe have a lower shot fatigue than others? Like as a knick fan, I noticed that Carmelo can keep up the barrage of scoring without getting tired til late in the game. I'm sure like all great scorers, when they're on a roll, that the basket gets as big as an ocean to them. Will we as players be able to tell the difference between a Tobias Harris having a "Good Shooting night" compared to Melo and curry and Durant sustaining longer periods where there shooting isn't affected nearly as bad as the average player?



Or will will you guys just throw some sort of "Badge" like you did last year?

Yes. We use real life FGA stats to determine how quickly a player fatigues. So volume shooters can put up a lot more shots before being affected.
 
# 94 Beluba @ 08/16/14 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.Coach2K.com
The shot release given to a player might still play the biggest factor.

This is one fundamental difference between 14 and 15 that you should be able to notice. In 14, the player's timing window was directly proportionate to his jumper animation. So typically, guys who elevated more always had a bigger window than set shooters, which made them easier to time. In 15, we decoupled the size of the window from the animation. So better shooters should be easier to shoot with regardless of what animation they're assigned.
 
# 95 Beluba @ 08/16/14 04:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
Yeah.. the way you described it but it would be more of a way to evade the defense or rather getting your shot blocked on an aggressive contest...

Not necessarily this actual execution of it here but similar idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_0SDsJPqmQ

Can't find one yet but I will...would be interesting how that kind of shot would fit in with this metered release

I've been meaning to work this into the shot system for a while but it keeps falling off the feature list. Mostly because you don't see it often on "regular" J's. And to make it look right you'd have to blend out of the normal shot pretty early, before the player even reaches the apex.
 
# 96 Smirkin Dirk @ 08/16/14 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
This is one fundamental difference between 14 and 15 that you should be able to notice. In 14, the player's timing window was directly proportionate to his jumper animation. So typically, guys who elevated more always had a bigger window than set shooters, which made them easier to time. In 15, we decoupled the size of the window from the animation. So better shooters should be easier to shoot with regardless of what animation they're assigned.
I think this clarifies more than your OP!

I've strictly been a real FG% guy since I had the option, but Ill give this new system a try.
 
# 97 Sundown @ 08/16/14 04:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
I've been meaning to work this into the shot system for a while but it keeps falling off the feature list. Mostly because you don't see it often on "regular" J's. And to make it look right you'd have to blend out of the normal shot pretty early, before the player even reaches the apex.

You guys must have an animation blend and state machine setup that's a joy to use. I've been trying to improve animation and control of roller blading characters in our title with a very limited set of animations to work with. The more I tweak the more transitional animations and poses I ask for. And I could tweak all day. I'm pretty sure our animator is starting to hate me.
 
# 98 Guard-ian @ 08/16/14 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
We did not implement the meter for FTs. Technical difficulties. I would like to re-visit that next year.

Yes, fatigue impacts the meter.
What about post shots and lay ups? is it the meter there too? In other 2k iterations I always had the feeling that timing didn't matter a lot in those kind of shots...

Cheers! ;-)
 
# 99 silverskier @ 08/16/14 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Yes. We use real life FGA stats to determine how quickly a player fatigues. So volume shooters can put up a lot more shots before being affected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
This is one fundamental difference between 14 and 15 that you should be able to notice. In 14, the player's timing window was directly proportionate to his jumper animation. So typically, guys who elevated more always had a bigger window than set shooters, which made them easier to time. In 15, we decoupled the size of the window from the animation. So better shooters should be easier to shoot with regardless of what animation they're assigned.
This is great to read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guard-ian
What about post shots and lay ups? is it the meter there too? In other 2k iterations I always had the feeling that timing didn't matter a lot in those kind of shots...

Cheers! ;-)
And this would be fantastic too
 
# 100 Trackball @ 08/16/14 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
This is one fundamental difference between 14 and 15 that you should be able to notice. In 14, the player's timing window was directly proportionate to his jumper animation. So typically, guys who elevated more always had a bigger window than set shooters, which made them easier to time. In 15, we decoupled the size of the window from the animation. So better shooters should be easier to shoot with regardless of what animation they're assigned.
As a fan of Andre Miller (who does not jump), this is welcome.
 


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