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NBA 2K16 News Post


Mike Wang, Gameplay Director for NBA 2K16 mentioned on Twitter that green releases are much rarer in NBA 2K16 and they will no longer be 100%.

He also mentions the following (in post #22):

Quote:
There have been battles even internally over missed green releases, especially now that they're so hard to get. I really think it's an unsolvable problem. The best news I can give you is that our shots engineer has made just about every knob I use to tune shooting modifiable on the server side post release just like a roster update. So if there's something the community isn't happy with I can tweak the system and update your games without the need for a patch. So what happened with patch 4 last year will never happen again.

UPDATE: Mike has chimed in on this topic with more details, to clear up any confusion (post #211)

Quote:
Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway...

I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots.

For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots.

Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally.

And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want.

Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

He also added this on Twitter...

Quote:
New Shot Meter option for #NBA2K16 called "Feedback Only." Meter won't draw while shooting, only after release to show how close you were.

Game: NBA 2K16Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments
# 241 stillfeelme @ 08/15/15 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Lightly contested shots. Heavily contested shots will miss more than last year. Don't worry. It's perfect.
Mike,

Can lightly contested shots get perfect green release? Before you said contested shots couldn't get perfect releases does that apply for lightly contested or is it just a ratings drop?
 
# 242 nyccc @ 08/15/15 10:29 AM
I think the most sensible thing for timing on jump shot should be:

Feedback: Let the user know if that was the right release and the shot quality.

For example if you take a bad shot and the release was perfect, it doesnt go in. But atleast you know if the release was right. Get rid of the whole yellow bar on the line scenario.
 
# 243 JohnnyCash2015 @ 08/15/15 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
There have been battles even internally over missed green releases, especially now that they're so hard to get. I really think it's an unsolvable problem. The best news I can give you is that our shots engineer has made just about every knob I use to tune shooting modifiable on the server side post release just like a roster update. So if there's something the community isn't happy with I can tweak the system and update your games without the need for a patch. So what happened with patch 4 last year will never happen again.

How about green releases mean perfect on wide open shots and occur more often on wide open shots only. And I mean WIDE open.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
# 244 JohnnyCash2015 @ 08/15/15 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Lightly contested shots. Heavily contested shots will miss more than last year. Don't worry. It's perfect.

Great, this is how it should have been from the start. Glad it's fixed. Shots are contested all the time in the NBA, but a guy should almost never make a heavily contested one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
# 245 ataman5 @ 08/15/15 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Lightly contested shots. Heavily contested shots will miss more than last year. Don't worry. It's perfect.
Mike as always appreciate your intimacy and your hardcore basketball mind.

As you've almost answered all of the concerns here and it seems that all in for better now yet; my main problem and question will be most of the guy here knows that shots that are close to shot-clock will drop at an enormous ratio. I mean it's generally known as SHOT CLOCK cheese and it definitely has its comeback after patch4 it's back, it was gone sort of but it's back afterwards so has it been fixed ?

I don't wanna see shot clock cheese no more.

Thanks in advance, appreciated.
 
# 246 DaKoKing @ 08/15/15 03:15 PM
A perfectly released shot goes in. Be it wide open or appearing contested.

I understand that players miss open shots. To that I say, just because a guy was open doesn't mean that he released it perfectly.

As a scout, one of the things used to evaluate a prospect as a shooter is how repeatable his shot/release is. It's a key component. A guy that perfectly shoots his shot, makes it.

Now if they will make this work by saying defense lowers the likelihood of a perfectly released shot, I'm fine with that. That or that guys will have specific ranges they work from best, I am fine with.

Being told that perfectly released shots don't always go in simply doesn't work for me.
 
# 247 iLLosophy @ 08/15/15 04:56 PM
Can anyone from 2k (Beluba, Czar) comment on the probability distribution of the shot release? I always felt that the feedback implied a bell curve normal distribution with the perfect release being the high point - so if you're "slightly" early or "slightly" late, you should see "slightly" less shots go in.

But in reality it always felt like if you were just a hairline away from perfect, you get severly penalized. Sort of like skee ball when aiming for the 50 point hole...if you get it then good but if you are just slightly off you end up falling into the worse hole (10 point hole).

I can't prove this of course as have no way of automating the controller but I'm not the only one who's noticed this.
 
# 248 tyberious4now @ 08/15/15 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedream2k16
This should be end of discussion. Only 40 more days !!!!
Nuff said I'm good!!
 
# 249 Trackball @ 08/15/15 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKoKing
A perfectly released shot goes in. Be it wide open or appearing contested.

I understand that players miss open shots. To that I say, just because a guy was open doesn't mean that he released it perfectly.

As a scout, one of the things used to evaluate a prospect as a shooter is how repeatable his shot/release is. It's a key component. A guy that perfectly shoots his shot, makes it.

Now if they will make this work by saying defense lowers the likelihood of a perfectly released shot, I'm fine with that. That or that guys will have specific ranges they work from best, I am fine with.

Being told that perfectly released shots don't always go in simply doesn't work for me.
All 2K would need to do (other than what Beluba said earlier) is change the wording to "Great Release" or "Excellent Release" and this ENTIRE PROBLEM could be avoided.

So many people just like you are thinking "it says Perfect, so it MUST go in. Perfect is just that: Perfect. No flaws. Make the basket."

I seriously hope 2K renames it to Great or Excellent...otherwise people will be continuing to try to make three-pointers with Dwight Howard.
 
# 250 DaKoKing @ 08/15/15 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedream2k16
in 2k we have these numbers called ratings that are a big factor in determining shot success. If a player has a garbage midrange rating he shouldn't be able to do this on HOF SIM just because i get a " EXCELLENT" release.

http://xboxclips.com/Teebone21/e59c9...b5043b49/embed

http://xboxclips.com/Teebone21/915fb...c1148e5b/embed

You guys hear the word perfect and think automatic 2 points even when the game says EXCELLENT when using meter or alphabetic shot feedback at the top of the screen.
In your attempt to be a condescending you either missed or purposely skipped the many context clues I added to make clear I am speaking exclusively of a perfectly released shot.

If the shot has an A+ release. It should be going in. Reasons being the player was within his range and perfectly released the ball.
 
# 251 KSOR24 @ 08/15/15 06:51 PM
A perfect release means the TIMING is perfect. That doesn't mean you put enough power into it or shot it accurately. There's no reason green releases should go in every time.
 
# 252 Maligx @ 08/15/15 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSOR24
A perfect release means the TIMING is perfect. That doesn't mean you put enough power into it or shot it accurately. There's no reason green releases should go in every time.
if thats your definition of "perfect" then it's not perfect. A perfect release is just that, perfect in all aspects of a shot, the timing, the distance and accuracy. If it were just perfect timing then it would be called perfect timing and not perfect release.
 
# 253 KSOR24 @ 08/15/15 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maligx
if thats your definition of "perfect" then it's not perfect. A perfect release is just that, perfect in all aspects of a shot, the timing, the distance and accuracy. If it were just perfect timing then it would be called perfect timing and not perfect release.
But in real life you could release the ball the exact same way every time and still miss. When I watch a Steph Curry miss, his shot usually doesn't look different from when he makes it. The context of the shot should matter infinitely more than the form.
 
# 254 Dione2014 @ 08/15/15 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by svit
I bet that someone has already suggested that but:

What about a system where green release only means player can make a shot only at max of his real %?

For example (not actual statistics) - Lebron James - top left 3pt area:
- hit 70.2 % of uncontested shots
- hit 12,5 % of contested shots

The green release for Lebron James in this area only means, that he will hit in 70.2 % when uncontested and only 12.5% if the shot is contested. Maybe we could break down uncontested/contested shots even further... for example:

Green Release:
- hit 70.2% when uncontested
- hit 27.6 % when lightly contested
- hit 12,5 % when contested

Yellow Release (slightly early/late):
- hit 33.4% when uncontested
- hit 15.6% when lightly contested
- hit 5.5% when contested

Red Release (very early/late):
- hit 8.5% when uncontested
- hit 1.5% when lightly contested
- hit 0.05% when contested

I think that with such a system we will have a good compromise between user skills and realistic shooting percentage. In order to compete you will have to learn player shooting release, but also you can't except to make trees after threes with green releases with Deandre Jordan...

Just my 5 cents...
I suggested This exact idea on a you-tuber's video a month ago. The comment section chewed me up. I see people don't want realistic. They just want easy.
 
# 255 Dione2014 @ 08/15/15 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillfeelme
I asked for this two years in a row it is the way to go IMO as long as they have rational decisions to do the ratings when there is a player with not enough data or shots.
I've wanted this in 2k for years man. NBA Live has a contested shot rating though.
 
# 256 DaKoKing @ 08/15/15 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSOR24
But in real life you could release the ball the exact same way every time and still miss. When I watch a Steph Curry miss, his shot usually doesn't look different from when he makes it. The context of the shot should matter infinitely more than the form.
The context should matter more. You are 100% correct and I agree.

However, the release on makes and misses are not exactly the same and that's why this is frustrating. They have a ton of resources, including many trained eyes. Those trained eyes should be telling them this doesn't make sense. If a guy is in his range and gets his best release then the shot drops.

If they decided to hire a legit shooting coach to do some tech advising he'd point out to them the differences in release that make a guy make or miss.

I'm 100% with making green releases tougher to get. However, based on what they are supposed to represent based on the history of this series when a GREEN is achieved it should be a basket.
 
# 257 jackzagal @ 08/15/15 10:53 PM
I think it's fair, shooting got way too easy after patch 4. Yeah, during first games was nice to see all the open shots with green releases fall, but it got boring soon. And while I haven't played online, I've seen all the BS thanks to some Youtube videos.

Also, it was frustrating to see someone like Tony Allen nail 3+ 3pters with barely 70 on 3pth shooting. Only people with 80+ should be able to shoot like that. And a lot of times, contesting the shots doesn't seem to matter, either.

I can't imagine how frustrating all the online "cheese" has been this year after patch 4, hopefully they will fix and balance it out for 2k16.
 
# 258 yungsta404 @ 08/16/15 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKoKing
The context should matter more. You are 100% correct and I agree.

However, the release on makes and misses are not exactly the same and that's why this is frustrating. They have a ton of resources, including many trained eyes. Those trained eyes should be telling them this doesn't make sense. If a guy is in his range and gets his best release then the shot drops.

If they decided to hire a legit shooting coach to do some tech advising he'd point out to them the differences in release that make a guy make or miss.

I'm 100% with making green releases tougher to get. However, based on what they are supposed to represent based on the history of this series when a GREEN is achieved it should be a basket.
the shot meter doesnt factor in all the shot mechanics that shooting coaches look for when someone is shooting and other underlying factors that effects ones shooting, it solely measures the release point of the ball.

Thats why making a green releases go in 100% of the time was such a faulty design. The shot meter isnt as sophisticated as you think it is.
 
# 259 Sundown @ 08/16/15 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKoKing
The context should matter more. You are 100% correct and I agree.



However, the release on makes and misses are not exactly the same and that's why this is frustrating. They have a ton of resources, including many trained eyes. Those trained eyes should be telling them this doesn't make sense. If a guy is in his range and gets his best release then the shot drops.



If they decided to hire a legit shooting coach to do some tech advising he'd point out to them the differences in release that make a guy make or miss.



I'm 100% with making green releases tougher to get. However, based on what they are supposed to represent based on the history of this series when a GREEN is achieved it should be a basket.

The tiny variations in a pro basketball players' release after he has to bring his body into shooting form from a dribbling or running motion, gauge distance, while contested by the largest humans on the planet that determine a make or a miss have almost ZERO correlation to timing a single button release to an animation while sitting on your couch. Any system that allows a consistent way to achieve a green that bypasses the simulation engine is unworkable.

And nothing in the history of the series says a green release means a 100% make, or that some color means some automatic rate of success. Green releases were only put in last year, and ended up badly breaking the game after patch 4, or distracted casuals from focusing on real basketball. In fact, the mechanic reminiscent of older and more casual games was the first time it was added to shooting in 2k.
 
# 260 dxa1678 @ 10/18/15 01:31 AM
i shoot about 87 percent of my threes. Here is what I do (for Ps4) I hold R2 trigger the step back animation i use kyrie everything right when the animation finishes i pull up money majority of the time. I use jump shot 72 took me a while to find out what was the problem but this works
 


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