Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week - Strategy Guide

Strategy Guide

Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

Submitted on: 11/19/2009 by AskMadden

Madden has always mirrored the NFL. In this week's tip, we look at what the Philadelphia Eagles have to take into account if they want to be successful passing the ball. This logic goes hand-in-hand with the Madden football series.

Bottom line, fast receivers are only a threat when they have space to use their speed. To overcome physical corners as well as inexperience, we hit practice mode to demonstrate how the Eagles in the NFL, as well as teams with undersized receivers in Madden, get open space for their playmakers to create big plays.

Madden NFL 10 Videos

Member Comments

# 41 teambayern @ 11/21/09 01:17 AM

I disagree with the OP's first sentence.

# 42 KBLover @ 11/21/09 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	If the animations were better than that would also help.

It would help a LOT.

Seeing a WR and a DB run head-to-head against each other like that...not exactly a realistic looking play!

Especially by the DB, he looks like he's blind.

# 43 Valdarez @ 11/21/09 03:20 AM

If it works every time, it's a bug, plain and simple. If it wasn't programmed to be part of the game, then it's a bug. Pretend it's a pick all you want, but you can't justify it as part of the game, it wasn't programmed as such. I'm willing to be the Sim leagues out there will outlaw this if guys start using it over and over and over again especially if the work around results in too many issues.

Playing Madden (or any football game) shouldn't be about learning how to foobar the AI, it should be about learning offensive strategies (tactics for the poster who commented on the difference) that break defensive strategies. The chess match isn't screwing the AI, then figuring out how to compensate for the screwed up AI. That's what you have to do against cheezers online and that's definitely not a chess match.

# 44 MAHAM @ 11/21/09 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	If it works every time, it's a bug, plain and simple.

It doesn't work all the time, but some play designs take advantage of certain other plays though. For example, Texas can kill a Tampa2 because the MLB leaves a vacant area playing center field. If the MLB bites on the RB angle, then the TE splits the safeties. Its a simple read that attacks the soft spots. I think natural pick plays are a good way to attack man B&R, just like Texas is a good option vs Tampa2 D. Neither are unstoppable though.

# 45 Valdarez @ 11/21/09 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAHAM


	It doesn't work all the time, but some play designs take advantage of certain other plays though. For example, Texas can kill a Tampa2 because the MLB leaves a vacant area playing center field. If the MLB bites on the RB angle, then the TE splits the safeties. Its a simple read that attacks the soft spots. I think natural pick plays are a good way to attack man B&R, just like Texas is a good option vs Tampa2 D. Neither are unstoppable though.

Someone reported earlier that it did work every time. Are you saying you tested it and it didn't?

I think this is going to boil down to the folks who want to find something that works like / will use it, and the folks that want to play a realistic / simulation football game are going to view it as an exploit / problem with the AI / pathing.

# 46 RyanMoody21 @ 11/21/09 07:59 AM

Funny how I tried this (as prior posted) with the Asomugha, and saw the same results, right down to the sudden turn at the line of scrimmage when the ball is thrown.

Its right in the NFL rule book that DB's are allow to maintain legal contact with players down field. Just because EA's animation of this looks terrible and clearly the jerking of players back and forth would be PI, doesnt mean its fair play to cheese on the guy your playing.

For those of you who spoke that it didnt work every time, I suggest you try it again. Unless for some reason you choose a team running a zone coverage, this will happen, regardless of the speed or jam rating of the DB.

The only way to not have it happen, as I stated before, is to change the route of the 2nd WR. The only reason this is constantly effective is the 2nd WR lines up on the line of scrimmage while the 1st and 3rd do not, thats part of a bunch formation. This makes the DB run toward the line to cover his man, this happens at the same time the 2nd WR is running his sideline route and they blindly run into each other.

Its got nothing to do with a "chess match" or setting a legal pick, its about a glitch in the game that upon exploiting gets you 10-15 yards everything. In all honesty, the fact that people come in here and try to validate this stuff as real football strategy, makes me understand why so many people cant play online anymore.

Edit after watching 3 or 4 videos I saw alot of user manipulated defense to get plays drawn out the way they wanted. Including leaving slot WR's completely uncovered and manually controlling a safety to draw man coverage to show how "realistic" the game is. I also saw alot of rocket catching, which was talked about as if it was a favorable tactic. Atleast one other time I saw a pick set up out of the bunch formation.

# 47 MAHAM @ 11/21/09 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMoody


	For those of you who spoke that it didnt work every time, I suggest you try it again. Unless for some reason you choose a team running a zone coverage, this will happen, regardless of the speed or jam rating of the DB. The only way to not have it happen, as I stated before, is to change the route of the 2nd WR. The only reason this is constantly effective is the 2nd WR lines up on the line of scrimmage while the 1st and 3rd do not, thats part of a bunch formation. This makes the DB run toward the line to cover his man, this happens at the same time the 2nd WR is running his sideline route and they blindly run into each other. Its got nothing to do with a "chess match" or setting a legal pick, its about a glitch in the game that upon exploiting gets you 10-15 yards everything. In all honesty, the fact that people come in here and try to validate this stuff as real football strategy, makes me understand why so many people cant play online anymore. Edit after watching 3 or 4 videos I saw alot of user manipulated defense to get plays drawn out the way they wanted. Including leaving slot WR's completely uncovered and manually controlling a safety to draw man coverage to show how "realistic" the game is. I also saw alot of rocket catching, which was talked about as if it was a favorable tactic. Atleast one other time I saw a pick set up out of the bunch formation.

I said it doesn't work all the time, and it doesn't. Try playing at game speed instead of practice mode. I can get any play to work almost constantly in practice.

I don't understand what you don't get. Half the reason you use the bunch 3wr to get a natural pick is because the two recievers are lined off the line while the middle reciever in the bunch is on the line. Its not smart to jam when you see that set. The middle reciever is easily jammed, but not the recievers off the line. If the middle reciever is jammed, it takes the lane from the defender covering the inside reciever going to the flats. The inside reciever runs under the other player being jammed at the line easily because he's off the LOS. It works because it should. It's not rocket science.

# 48 RyanMoody21 @ 11/21/09 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAHAM


	I don't understand what you don't get. Half the reason you use the bunch 3wr to get a natural pick is because the two recievers are lined off the line while the middle reciever in the bunch is on the line. Its not smart to jam when you see that set. The middle reciever is easily jammed, but not the recievers off the line. If the middle reciever is jammed, it takes the lane from the defender covering the inside reciever going to the flats. The inside reciever runs under the other player being jammed at the line easily because he's off the LOS. It works because it should. It's not rocket science.

Clearly I "get it", after all you just rewrote what I had already posted and added "I dont understand what you dont get" infront of it. Setting a pick has got nothing to do with routing your players to cause a DB to run directly into another player at the snap of the ball.

Woodson isnt even close enough to jam Jackson, the pick is set only by the hot routing. I just told you, from my own experimenting this works with speed DB's just as well. The only times it wont work is if you change the routes to prevent the overlapping.

Im not sure what playing in game or in practice changes. In theroy players should recat the same in either mode.

# 49 RyanMoody21 @ 11/21/09 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	Thankyou, he makes an excuse for bumping WR's all the way down the field(animation issue), but complains about a natural rub/pick off the los(another animation issue). So that point is nullified. Bottom line, if he keeps calling BnR globally, I'm going to call bunch plays. This is CHESS not CHECKERS my friends!

Im not making any excuse for the animation issue, but thats anything but a "natrual" rub or pick. Its also not an animation issue, its a tracking issue.

You shouldnt be justifying anything tit for tat with game issues. Since the bad jam animations ruin your deep routes that makes it fair play to hot route your guys to make them run into DB's?

Yea, that sounds like a real good straigty and "chess matched" way to play.

# 50 Valdarez @ 11/21/09 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	Bottom line, if he keeps calling BnR globally, I'm going to call bunch plays. This is CHESS not CHECKERS my friends!

Figuring out how to stop bugs/glitches sounds more like go fish to me.

Chess would imply using real offensive plays to break a given defense, and using real defensive plays to stop a given offensive call.

# 51 RyanMoody21 @ 11/21/09 07:39 PM

You guys keep playing like that, convince yourself its fair strategy and reflects your knowledge or understanding of football.

Ultimately, its sad that in 2010 we are even having a 7 page argument that boils down to poor animations being looped and poor tracking that causes players to blindly run right into each other.

Certainly not what should be expected from the worlds largest motion capture facility, or a game that claims it has adaptive AI.

# 52 Speedy @ 11/21/09 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMoody


	Ultimately, its sad that in 2010 we are even having a 7 page argument that boils down to poor animations being looped and poor tracking that causes players to blindly run right into each other. Certainly not what should be expected from the worlds largest motion capture facility, or a game that claims it has adaptive AI.

I am so tired of posts like these. Do you have anything good to say about this game? As soon as I see your name I know it's something critical and negative with an arrogant and pompous view.

# 53 RyanMoody21 @ 11/21/09 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WakeUnc2321


	I am so tired of posts like these. Do you have anything good* to say about this game? As soon as I see your name I know it's something critical and negative with an arrogant and pompous view.*

Wow. Tell me how you really feel, because I could care less. If you dont like what I have to say then you can add me to your ignore list or just not read it.

Hope your insulting of me, out of no where, has inflated your internet ego.

# 54 Speedy @ 11/21/09 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMoody


	Wow. Tell me how you really feel, because I could care less. If you dont like what I have to say then you can add me to your ignore list or just not read it. Hope your insulting of me, out of no where, has inflated your internet ego.

...and you have made my point.

# 55 Mr. Franchise @ 11/21/09 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMoody


	Wow. Tell me how you really feel, because I could care less. If you dont like what I have to say then you can add me to your ignore list or just not read it. Hope your insulting of me, out of no where, has inflated your internet ego.

If it makes you feel any better, I LOVE what you have to say.

# 56 av7 @ 11/21/09 07:52 PM

Knock it off, now.

# 57 JkA3 @ 11/21/09 09:18 PM

I can't believe that we haven't received a second patch yet.

# 58 Valdarez @ 11/22/09 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	Whats your definition of "real" offensive plays and "real" defensive plays in a football game? This is not real football. So I'm using a football games offensive plays to beat a certain defensive strategy. Its in the game, its not real. I think that may be the disconnect here. Its a real football games global BnR D and how to counter it w/ a bunch set. Nothing more nothing less. How do you feel when someone comes out in a Wildcat formation breaks a long run on you and all b/c you are dropping into a zone and playing pass D more. Do you call the same defense when you see them using this or do you change it up. This is the strategy or chess match I'm speaking about. You say cheese, I say please.

A glitch / exploit != football strategy. Something you seem to have a hard time admitting.

# 59 Valdarez @ 11/22/09 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	I don't see this tip being a glitch at all.

I know, that's easy to see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	I guess if the cpu A.I. called the global BnR every play and this same thing happened on every play, then I would consider it a glitch. But thats not the case. So I don't.

RMoody sayed it he labbed it, and the tip worked every single time. Have you labbed it? Were RMoody's findings inaccurate? (I don't know, I haven't labbed it)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	I don't know what your defintion for "real"* offensive plays and "real" defensive plays in a video game is.*

To me, real strategy would be using a screen to beat a blitz, or using a post against a cover 3 at the WR position, or via the slot depending on which side the safety is lined up, or using a corner route to break a Cover 2 zone. Things like that is what I consider real football strategy.

I don't consider something that's not programmed into the game that exploits problems with pathing issues of the defensive players to be football strategy.

I agree it's a game tip, but I just don't see it as a football/strategy tip. That's where I personally draw the line, and I recognize that not everybody desires the same thing. My preference would be to see football strategies though as opposed to game tips.

# 60 Valdarez @ 11/22/09 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	Yes, I have, and know it doesn't work every single time b/c the Cpu A.I. doesn't global BnR every single time.

Your example is rather silly. Are you new to the boards? RMoody is saying it works every time based on the defensive coverage the OP provided. i.e. He labbed it and ever single time the illegal contact / rub works against the given defense and the adaptive AI is unable to adapt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	Now on the other hand if I'm playing online and my opp. is using engage 8 every play, and I keep dumping it off to my running back for plus yardage, thats just using a certain offensive strategy to beat a defensive startegy, that doesn't mean its a glitch. So is using bunch sets to beat BnR man coverage. I see this strategy even on Sundays! Well the OP is showing us a video game tip, which is also used as football strategy.

Bah, I'm not going to argue the fact that it's a glitch with you, believe what you want. It's people thinking game play like this tip represents good football strategy that really turns me off to the Madden community. This is the type of stuff you see on Madden nation, or in Madden tournaments.

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