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Closing the Gap Between NBA Live and NBA 2K

Three seconds left to shoot. You’re down two. Do you set up a play for your star forward or quickly inbound to your sharp shooting guard for the win?

These decisions and more highlight the excitement of a basketball video game. The core fundamentals are a must and no matter your preference, be it Live or NBA 2K: a basketball is passed, a basketball is dribbled and a basketball is shot.

The deal breaker for gamers is the importance of detailing the other, more dynamic intricacies of the game of basketball. And despite its vast improvements to silence the cries of the sim-gamer, many gamers agree NBA Live still does its best at highlighting the arcade aspects of basketball. Or in other words, there is a large gap in basketball excellence between NBA 2K and Live, with Live being the one needing to play catch-up.

The complaints of Live's engine and presentation range from gimmicks and signature styles to lighting and animations. But always the most important complaint is Live's inability to capture the core essence of basketball game play.


NBA Live 09's biggest need is to go beyond the basics, to capture the core essence of basketball.


Wish lists galore can showcase the necessary improvements Live needs to make to be taken seriously. And though some may speak about features like online play, online leagues, and franchise/dynasty mode, it is essential that EA Sports concentrate on those aspects of the game that directly affect our 5-on-5 gaming experience. The aspects that can close the gap between Live and NBA 2K.

The first thing all gamers take notice of no matter their preference or its importance to game play is graphics. For the purpose of this article when I speak about graphics I mean animations, lighting, player models and anything in-between.

EA has taken a direction with Live's lighting that has, for the most part, alienated even the most loyal of their customer base. They have taken away one thing that most humans find so admirable and astonishing and cast it with a shadow of darkness.

As a species our overwhelming visual preference is to bright light and colors. Most things dark are considered gloomy, uninspiring, and dull. EA has managed to take the worst in arena lighting and make it a mandatory condition of play.

The shame of it is that Live’s lighting system is actually beautifully done. But their stubborn decision to darken arenas in exchange for performance makes it difficult to both acknowledge and appreciate the way light bounces off players, their sweat and the court.

NBA 2K has somehow managed to render beautifully crafted arenas, bounce light off players with great precision and showcase near exact replicas of player movements and shots all while keeping arenas well-lit and running at a brisk frame rate.

If EA expects Live to close the gap graphically then they must figure out a way to do the same. They must turn on the lights and it to flow naturally on the hardwood. There is even a strong chance that with those improvements, Live could finally be recognized for it’s more advanced and specific lighting system.

I won’t speak about player models in particular because its long been confirmed that this will always cause debate. There are those that prefer Live’s models over 2K’s and vice versa. And no matter how long you want to argue, no one is changing their opinion because no one is wrong.

Instead I rather speak about fluff or what might be better known as gimmicks. For at least the past 15 years gamers have taken note of the reliance on catchy, attention-making gimmick features on the back of the box.

Last year, EA went to great efforts to speak about new features like quick strike and go-to-moves. And while each of these new features did in fact improve the quality of their title, they didn’t give many gamers confidence in Live’s direction or game play.



Live 09 needs to shrink the gameplay gap for hardcore gamers to consider it as an option.


Whether fair or not, the differences between Live and 2K are obvious. EA has a way of dramatizing their new features that turn off basketball enthusiasts, making them wonder how long before the online community abuses the new addition in game play. Whereas Visual Concepts pours in so little information, which is vague at most, that gamers become more receptive to their motives and new game play enhancements.

Already, EA is focusing on, and making gamers aware of, new features with catchy names. If EA is truly interested in making Live more realistic, it would do more good to advertise what the new features actually do rather than showering us with a hodge podge of new terms.

Game play, as previously mentioned, is essential. Live does little to deviate from the standard rules, limitations and creativity of an NBA game. It may even be argued that Live has gone above and beyond acceptable physics and human limitations with the addition and tuning of their superstar features.

 

"It is time for the developers to step out from behind the curtain and reveal their true selves. Opening up to the community allows that same community to feel willing to do the same."


It is a severe case of implementing too little with too much. Live's game play relies on many over the top animations which can be seen in a simple crossover and poor design choices in basic maneuvers such as the dunk. In order to compete with NBA 2K in terms of realism and critical acclaim, EA needs to re-evaluate their motion capture and tune both its fluidity and realism.

Gamers also enjoy playing against the individual tendencies of different teams. We expect that playing the Phoenix Suns will result in an up-tempo flow with several screen plays and passes to keep the game moving.

Against the Utah Jazz we expect picks and rolls will force us to switch repeatedly on defense and prevent mismatches benefiting the Jazz offense. It is crucial that Live individualize teams beyond their tempo tendencies and follow 2K’s lead by importing plays specific to a team’s offense and defense. Making each game a unique experience will make older gamers come back for more.

Last but not least is something we’ve seen at OS in the past weeks. Titles have benefited when members of a development team visit the gaming forums and involve the community in the design process. EA has made good on that with Madden and the reception is clear – more gamers have become interested in the development of Madden and even have looked forward to offering their own insight knowing that it is being received and seriously considered. EA needs to take that step with Live.

It is time for the developers to step out from behind the curtain and reveal their true selves. Opening up to the community allows that same community to feel willing to do the same. There is little doubt that community involvement will help make Live a better product. We’ve all already seen and read it with Madden and other games and we now even expect that our game play experience will support our feelings.

It is EA's job to go beyond those expectations and reward us with their attention to detail to “Liven” up their game. The rewards will come full circle.

This article is also featured on Bleacher Report. Bleacher Report is where the sports bar meets the press box, the place for fan-journalists to create and critique high-quality sports analysis. Visit Bleacher Report for more video games news.


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Member Comments
# 1 lovesnikes @ 06/26/08 06:13 PM
wat about 2k u seem like a ea fan bud....
 
# 2 edubbs @ 06/26/08 06:18 PM
I do not have much to say in response to this article.

Other than to stress the need for the developers of Live, to incorporate team specific playstyles and tendacies for EVERY team in the league.

This is the 4th installment of Live on NextGen, and it makes no sense that each team still plays too much alike.

This article explains in detail what EA needs to do to become relevant again, in regards to the battle with the NBA2K series.

Very well written, and I agree 100% with the opinions of the author.

Good job.
 
# 3 hokupguy @ 06/26/08 06:20 PM
its a big gap grand canyon it would be nice to see live as good game again , dam most of us grew up on it. I think that 06 360 was a great start then they took a huge step back in 07 and are playing catch up
 
# 4 RaychelSnr @ 06/26/08 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesnikes
wat about 2k u seem like a ea fan bud....
I think Carlos was writing this about Live. I'm sure once we learn more about NBA 2k9 and what they will be offering you'll see some of our authors start to chime in on what 2k9 needs to keep doing to maintain their lead. I know I am eagerly anticipating the release of 2K9, hopefully OKC is represented
 
# 5 lovesnikes @ 06/26/08 08:33 PM
live 08 was a good basketball game not great...thats a little far to say it was a great game. 2k8 was still much better even though live got much better. people dont give it cred because since 04 it has been it the game has been atrocious bud.....08 was a big step up but no where near perfect..the dunk animations were horrific u could just actually run up the court and dunk on anyone. rebounding was bad to but luckily their fixing those things. nba 2k9 isnt just gonna sit back and let this game surpass them though even if their having contracting problems with take two
 
# 6 thmst30 @ 06/26/08 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddy187
Live is a great basketball game and no one gives its cred
And now nobody is going to give you cred. A great basketball game!?!?!?
 
# 7 Whaaaazuuuuup @ 06/26/08 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcain
I would rather play NBA Live 2000 over any incarnation of Live since then.
you said it. i LOVED LIVE 2000 for the pc. i this think it's the best basketball game (gameplay) ever made. the tv style camera angles have yet to be duplicated...
 
# 8 DubTrey1 @ 06/26/08 10:56 PM
Used to love the Live series, however 2K won me over with the gameplay overall. I really liked what EA has tried to do but seemingly have missed the boat in regards to what 2K managed to get so right. EA is a power developer and it may only be a matter of time before they get the right devs and dev leads to right the ship for Live. Til' then, I think 2K will continue to rule - especially without CHoops to work on....
 
# 9 CMH @ 06/26/08 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesnikes
wat about 2k u seem like a ea fan bud....
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbalivebeast
I agree with him 50% he sounds bias Live was one of the best selling basketball games the best versions were 95,98,2000,2001,2004,2004,2005,2006,2008,2009
This site never seizes to amaze me.

One guy says I'm a Live fan and the other says I'm biased toward 2K. Good stuff.

I'm not here to argue, though. I just wanted to point out that most, if not everything, written in this article comes from posters here on OS. Every point has been beaten to death on both 2K's and Live's forum. I tried to take an unbiased approach here and not ridicule the things that Live fans enjoy about the game. Because if you enjoy the title then obviously EA is doing something right. Instead, I tried to emphasize the little things that Live fans mostly complained about - weird dunk animations, dark arenas, and such.
 
# 10 Hassan Darkside @ 06/27/08 12:16 AM
Where'd all these guys come from? There's 3 people attacking thmst30 with 23 combined posts. Look out thmst!
 
# 11 Moses Shuttlesworth @ 06/27/08 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddy187
i didnt ask for cred, from what i heard from the producers said that live will be the best version so **** you thmst30
Woah, woah, calm down there buddy. This is a discussion board, not one for flamers.

I love that.
 
# 12 texbuk84 @ 06/27/08 12:57 AM
the people who think live is a great game then good luck to you because live cant even be considered as a SIM BASKETBALL GAME TO HARDCORE GAMERS. this game lacks gameplay, fluidity, player models are sub par at best, and the shooting in this game is horrible. i own both live and 2k and i love lives dynasty mode but i cant stomach playing the regular games. 2k presentation and gameplay wise blow live out of the water. PERIOD!!!
 
# 13 tril @ 06/27/08 01:45 AM
Good article.
I do hate the fact that Live tends to give their new features these gimmicky names.
Based on how LIve and 2K markets their product ,
Live seems to have a target audience of 12-18 year olds. thats the age group that tends to like the run and gun, and gimmicks. where superstars are super human.
2K's target audience is the true sports gamer who wants a true sim experience.

Ive watched 2 of my nephews go from a NBA LIVE fans to 2K die hards. and age had everything to do with it.
Im now watching a 3rd nephew go through the similar transition. I used to get him his annual game of NBA LIVE, but this past Christmas he asked for 2K it just so happens he just turned 18.
 
# 14 lovesnikes @ 06/27/08 02:08 AM
huddy ur a fruit leave these discussion....u cant say live is a great game and expect not to get bashed, im not a 2k fan or a live fan im a nba fan...and we all know 2k has been better then live 2k wasnt great it was good so we know damn well live was great it was ok animations were bad
 
# 15 SpartanBaller @ 06/27/08 04:47 AM
I can already tell from the few pics and vids out that live is going to suck once again.
 
# 16 CMH @ 06/27/08 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesnikes
huddy ur a fruit leave these discussion....u cant say live is a great game and expect not to get bashed, im not a 2k fan or a live fan im a nba fan...and we all know 2k has been better then live 2k wasnt great it was good so we know damn well live was great it was ok animations were bad
I'm no mod but I would advise that you and everyone else avoid getting personal with the comments. Terms like "fruit" or cursing on the boards is not appropriate here.

Just my word of advice and friendly warning before you end up hearing it from a mod.
 
# 17 BlyGilmore @ 06/27/08 11:02 AM
Listen I'm all for sticking up for games you liked, but I don't think there's even a debate when it comes to the quality of Live 08 vs. NBA 2k8. Nearly ever review I saw last fall gave 2k8 significantly higher scores (meta-critic has Live at 73 and 2k8 at 81). This was after NBA Live 07 got a 59 on the 360 (which for a company like EA is horrible).

The sad thing is EA can just point to its sales and declare victory. Despite being inferior, Live almost doubled 2k8's sales in the US and Europe.
 
# 18 CMH @ 06/27/08 11:16 AM
Yes. EA can rely on it's sales and I mentioned that in the article. By dropping gimmick titles it won't really affect much but perhaps get more serious gamers interested in the title.

Young kids that buy Live without much thought are going to buy Live no matter what new feature is on the box. Live is now a brand for EA. It just needs to be out there and people will buy it.

But if EA is interested in winning the ratings war and winning over sim-fans then they need to pass a little love in that direction. It won't hurt sales at all. It'll only make them even bigger.

I admit that I like 2K even more than Live - though I think Live 08 was a fun, good game. And I'm over here trying to help EA destroy 2K with a bit of advice. Personally, I believe that EA has the manpower and resources to make Live the greatest basketball game and I'd like to see it happen because that's great for the gamer.
 
# 19 BrianFifaFan @ 06/28/08 09:15 AM
That is a great article, Carlos! You hit a homerun with this one.......
 
# 20 Pared @ 06/28/08 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeePride
This site never seizes to amaze me.

One guy says I'm a Live fan and the other says I'm biased toward 2K. Good stuff.

I'm not here to argue, though. I just wanted to point out that most, if not everything, written in this article comes from posters here on OS. Every point has been beaten to death on both 2K's and Live's forum. I tried to take an unbiased approach here and not ridicule the things that Live fans enjoy about the game. Because if you enjoy the title then obviously EA is doing something right. Instead, I tried to emphasize the little things that Live fans mostly complained about - weird dunk animations, dark arenas, and such.
I'm glad you made this comment, because to me that article stated the obvious. Maybe it's obvious to some and not to others.

I would say it's a well written and focused article though, and a very entertaining read.

Here's probably the best, and IMO, the main reason this article should have focused on:

Quote:
"It is time for the developers to step out from behind the curtain and reveal their true selves. Opening up to the community allows that same community to feel willing to do the same."
All sports games that have done this have proven to be better received with our "sim" community. We call ourselves the "die-hards" and "hardcores" of sports gaming, and seeing our opinion heard AND implemented is a great way to not only provide a solid foundation for a sports game but also a great way to foster a title's acceptance amongst its audience.

Great read, YP. Thanks.
 

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