Just to Dredge Up History

[Blackadar]

I was searching through the "My Documents" file and found this...

Affiliates of GA Sports ...

"This is Dave Dial.

I've attempted to talk with each of you personally over the last couple weeks on ICQ. Thank you for your time you spent speaking with me. At that time, I might have mentioned that there would be some changes coming to GA Sports and the network of affiliates we have. I might have also mentioned that I would be the new person that you speak with at GA.

The company has decided to stay with Tony Wyss in this capacity and he will continue to be your contact at GA, just as before. He will continue to make the decisions on who will be in charge of certain sites and whether changes are needed in personnel throughout the network. He will also continue to make the decisions on whether we continue to host a site or not. If I gave the impression to any of you that scenario would change, I had misjudged the company's direction and I was in error. I apologize for any confusion this may have created.

I will be involved with everyone on the network as a "helper" as I attempt to provide you with contacts at game companies, prizes for contests for your site, etc. I'll be in touch with you as time goes on to see if I can assist you in becoming a better site for the GA Sports Network.

Regards,

Dave Dial"
_____________________________________________

So I e-mailed Tony asking what was going on and I found out last night he'd been let go. Here's his e-mail to me and my response stepping down as moderator:

_____________________________________________
"---- Original Message -----
From: Double D,
To: [email protected]
Cc: Josh Hiscock
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 7:11 AM
Subject: Status


Jim ..

This is Dave Dial, General Manager at Gamer’s Alliance Sports.


There were a few things going on at GA Sports. One of the most unfortunate things that happened during this turnover of personnel was your letter to Tony Wyss saying that you were contacted by me that you would be taking over FOF.com Now, out of all the people that I told this information to about what was going to happen shortly (and was not at liberty to talk about) only you, no one else out of all the affiliates we have, broke my confidence and contacted Tony. This caused me major pains because, obviously, this was supposed to be kept between us.

Now, you have mailed Glen. That’s ok, Glen is part of the new regime. However, I would have liked to talk to you personally. I believe at this point you tend to have issues with me, and that is why you have gone on to Tony and Glen as contact points. Have no doubt, no doubt, that I am the last say in what happens on the Network Affiliates, who runs them and who moderates the forums. There is no one higher than me on this issue. Thus the term, General Manager.


While I had every intention of turning the site over to you lock, stock and barrel and giving you leeway to make the site whatever you wanted it to be in your own image, I had to take a long hard look at you contacting Tony. This caused great rifts in the company. Therefore, I have appointed Josh Hiscock as Webmaster of frontofficefootball.com He will be the boss there and run the site. We would like you to stay on as moderator of the forum, but again, Josh has the ability to make personnel decisions as he sees fit because he is running the site. He would have to confirm you as moderator at this point.

I also noticed that Tony Wyss was allowed to post unchecked in the FOF Forum after his dismissal. After the letter that was sent out, it was hoped that wise moderators would keep their eyes peeled for Mr. Wyss and save the company some grief with his sour apples. That’s ultimately your call, because as of right now, you are the moderator. However, it was another chance missed to score points with the Network Brass.

I will have Josh Hiscock get in contact with you and his decision on the moderator at fof.com is final. Josh is now the manager of frontofficefootball.com entirely.

I may give him advice and consent on personnel but Josh is the power now at Gamer Alliance’s frontofficefootball.com



Dave Dial

General Manager

Gamer’s Alliance Sports "

_____________________________________________
Dave:

Sorry that you feel that way, but here's my perspective:

1. I e-mailed you numerous times over the past three weeks asking for some information. I was more than willing to help out GA Sports, but a lack of forthcoming information from you was the reason for my asking around. As for "breaking your confidence", go back and look at your e--mails. Or, if you wish, I can send all of them back to you if you need a reminder. Never did you act like this was something that needed to be clandestine. If you needed it to be, then give me some information or at least tell me it needed to be. If this caused GA Sports distress or pain, then you need to look at your own actions.

2. My loyalty isn't to you Dave, nor GA Sports. I have some loyalty to Tony, since he made me a moderator, but I was helping him out more than he helped me. My loyalty is to Jim Gindin and the FOF user community - period. I've helped more than 50 people with licensing issues, going so far as to get them resolved with the VP of E-license himself (I don't keep 9 month old messages or I'd attach one). I've worked hand-in-hand with Dan Wasson at EA to make sure the issues were resolved. I pushed for (and wrote two sections) of the FOF strategy guide. I also managed to keep some semblance of order when all hell broke loose over screwed up licensing and patches. I doubt most moderators would have stuck through the kind of abuse I put up with, but I did it because I believe in the designer, the product and the user community.

3. Tony did make a couple of posts this morning (I saw them about 7:00 EST) - there's two points to be made here. First, there was nothing basing GA Sports, or you, in either post. Just some mention that he may try to work another board for FOF in the future. Two, I have a job, a wife and a child and better things to do than to be on the board 24 hours per day looking for messages from Tony. I'm not out to make points with the "network brass" - I'm there to do a job and keep the board civil. Take a good look, because it's about the best public forum for any game that I've ever seen. I'm not going to delete Tony's posts just because you backstabbed him...at least, that's the way it looks from here.

I'm stepping down as moderator immediately - go find someone else. Not because I'm upset about not getting the board (since I just changed jobs, have a new baby and I review games for a magazine, time would have been tough to find anyway), but because it's obvious that you have no clue what made the FOF board great in the first place. I may continue to post and I will announce the decision why I'm leaving in posts on the web site. If they're deleted, they'll get reposted and, rest assured, I will let the other key members of the site know what happened. I will not flame anyone, because I've put too much work into this to throw it down the tubes. Good luck to Josh, I'm sure he'll do fine.

To sum this up, Dave, your head is so big I wonder how it fits up your ass.

Blackadar

[NoMyths]

:clap: (tm)

[NoMyths]

dola.... (just to dredge up current weirdness)

How many people here with over a thousand posts even remember the Dave Dial days?*


*Not trying to start a newbie v. veteran thing, just wondering how much history v. threadkill accounts for our membership.

[Swaggs]

Me.

[ice4277]

I was around a little bit back then, but didn't really have much to do with this.

[JeeberD]

I was around before the drama began, but then was gone from the board for several months. I remember coming back tot FOF.com and finding the board abandoned. Thank god for web searches or who knows what I would have done without this board...

[Barkeep49]

Let's try the converse... How many people with under a thousand remember those days?

[GoldenEagle]

I was around, albeit I posted under a different alias.

[tucker342]

I arrived well after the Dave Dial days. That guy was so evil

[Draft Dodger]

I have a very vague recollection of this - I don't think I've ever really understood the whole soap opera.

I do remember at one point there were 2 sites - and everyone from one was going over to the other and causing mega-havoc (all I can remember is lots and lots of mullet jokes). Can't even remember who had what site.

Never was around here for Dial, but I remember everyone at the HH Clubhouse hated him too...

[NYFAN]

I don't know how many posts I have, but probably not that many... I was much more active on the old board, but life outside of FOF has caught up to me Anyway, all I can say is ... regime ... network brass ... backstabbing ... dave dial ... man, those were some interesting times haha ... oh... and for the record, I too was banned and deleted!!

[NYFAN]

Oh, check out my member ID, I was one of the privy to the new board Too bad though, my number is always 7, looks like I missed by one this time...

[dacman]

Originally posted by Barkeep49
Let's try the converse... How many people with under a thousand remember those days?

[Senator]

I love Blackies final volley. I thought of using that once when a State Rep was droning on about his greatness.

I remember thinking this may be the end, but hoping it wasn't.

[Anrhydeddu]

I came in a few months after this while it was still simmering a little. I asked about it since someone made a reference to it and I was told just go back to the February threads.

[McSweeny]

i was just a wee lurker back in those days

[ctmason]

I remember those days, I think....

[Tony]

pretty funny... it's nice not being connected anymore.

i just go about my day, making music between the gaps. the politics are much different in my little underground scene.

i guess i could say 'fuck dave dial' now or something like that without getting in trouble, but oh well, im sure he's makin it happen somewhere out there.

[scooper]

Originally posted by Tony


i guess i could say 'fuck dave dial' now or something like that without getting in trouble,

We've been waiting to hear that from you for three years.

[condors]

i remember

[vtbub]

Yup, me too.

[Hawglaw]

I was here.... I actually started back in the old www.frontofficefootball.com days. Never forget that old green and gray board.

[Fonzie]

Oh yes, I remember those good ol' days...

[mckerney]

Originally posted by NYFAN
Oh, check out my member ID, I was one of the privy to the new board Too bad though, my number is always 7, looks like I missed by one this time...

I think that may be my fault of how you ended up with 8 instead of 7, so you can blame me.

[ColtCrazy]

I remember those days, if only as a lurker. well said Blackadar

[daedalus]

Let's see . . .

The Josh in the letter is SackAttack, the co-moderator at the time (live from Missouri). He also stepped down after he found out the crap that Dial tried to pull. I think it might have been briefly passed onto another person before that person also quit and Dial had to bring in his own moderator, the infamous STIX (whichever the spelling it might be). To his credit, STIX tried to be decent most of the time. It obviously didn't help that he became associated with Dial and his crony.

There were two situations with dual boards. One was during the ordeal where the other Josh, Chubby, set up a temporary message board and a number of us migrated there after being banned and/or deleted. The cool part was trying to follow some of the dynasties (Ben's SEC and QS's came to mind) across both boards. The other was afterward when GA set up their own message board where STIX resided (featuring avatar with mullet). A few people went over to post there and promptly got banned.

Eventually, Jim Gindin and Dan Wassen (yes, those evil horrible people we like to hate) stepped in and backed the "old regime" so GA stepped back and returned the site to the old group that ran it. At least that was the story I was told at the time. Oh, and order was restored. Such as it ever was or can be at The Sideline/FOFC.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by NoMyths
How many people here with over a thousand posts even remember the Dave Dial days?*

*Not trying to start a newbie v. veteran thing, just wondering how much history v. threadkill accounts for our membership.

And how many people have a thousand posts without the threadkill posts.

[mckerney]

I qualify as having over a thousand without threadkill posts and remembering the Dave Dial days. Was also the first to register on the Sportplanet board that wasn't involved in setting it up.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by daedalus
There were two situations with dual boards. One was during the ordeal where the other Josh, Chubby, set up a temporary message board and a number of us migrated there after being banned and/or deleted.

That was when we all went over to Chubby's EZBoard, which he'd had before but wasn't widely used up until that point.

[detroit_fan]

I don't miss those days at all.

[John Galt]

I was definitely around and remember it all too well. I didn't really "know" the people involved so it all seemed kind of distant to me, but I always understood that Dave Dial sucked.

[Ben E Lou]

Not only was I around at the time, but Ol' SkyDog got banned and account deleted during that fiasco.

[Anrhydeddu]

Galt, no foolin'? I thought you were a recent creation. It's funny, when I arrived, the elite were not only the moderators/owners but HA, QS of course and NYFan, iirc. mckerney was the resident curmudgeon and folks like SkyDog was just busy playing the game. The dolamite thing happened a week or two before I got there and then there was this endless series of threads on/about HA, HAfan and other HAtrolls. I do think it was Josh (SA) who welcomed me as a waterboy and hoped that I would find a way to fit in. Three years later, I am still looking.

[Blackadar]

Originally posted by daedalus
Let's see . . .

The Josh in the letter is SackAttack, the co-moderator at the time (live from Missouri). He also stepped down after he found out the crap that Dial tried to pull. I think it might have been briefly passed onto another person before that person also quit and Dial had to bring in his own moderator, the infamous STIX (whichever the spelling it might be). To his credit, STIX tried to be decent most of the time. It obviously didn't help that he became associated with Dial and his crony.

There were two situations with dual boards. One was during the ordeal where the other Josh, Chubby, set up a temporary message board and a number of us migrated there after being banned and/or deleted. The cool part was trying to follow some of the dynasties (Ben's SEC and QS's came to mind) across both boards. The other was afterward when GA set up their own message board where STIX resided (featuring avatar with mullet). A few people went over to post there and promptly got banned.

Eventually, Jim Gindin and Dan Wassen (yes, those evil horrible people we like to hate) stepped in and backed the "old regime" so GA stepped back and returned the site to the old group that ran it. At least that was the story I was told at the time. Oh, and order was restored. Such as it ever was or can be at The Sideline/FOFC.

Actually, they offered it to Josh after I told Tony about Dial. To his credit, he didn't take it.

The EZ board was set up as a "temp" board for about 48 hours until this thing died down and control was re-established by the good guys. Then we migrated over to the new board about 8 months later when GA wouldn't support us anymore. It was a sweet coup - in one day, we migrated 90% of the users. By the time GA figured out what was going on, there was nobody left.

One of the little known tidbits is a pissing match between me and the GA lawyers. They threatened to sue me for "hacking" and "stealing" the work from the old site. I threatened to sue them because I was never compensated (it was a good angle) for the "work" I did on FOFC and also for the unauthorized use of all my materials (pretty much the entire content of the old site). We went around and around, but finally they realized that they were screwed. If I stole the work, then it must be theirs. If I did the work and it's theirs, then they had to pay me for it. They didn't pay me for it, so it wasn't theirs.

Otherwise, they were all set to sue my po' ass.

[John Galt]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
Galt, no foolin'? I thought you were a recent creation. It's funny, when I arrived, the elite were not only the moderators/owners but HA, QS of course and NYFan, iirc. mckerney was the resident curmudgeon and folks like SkyDog was just busy playing the game. The dolamite thing happened a week or two before I got there and then there was this endless series of threads on/about HA, HAfan and other HAtrolls. I do think it was Josh (SA) who welcomed me as a waterboy and hoped that I would find a way to fit in. Three years later, I am still looking.

I was actually a "creation" on the old sideline board when someone said, "Who is John Galt?" I'd been around before that under a different name (one I don't even remember). I am definitely more active nowadays (with consistent online access), but I've been around for a long, long time. And I too have never quite "fit in."

[bosshogg23]

Blackadar something along the lines of your "hacking" & "stealing" was posted at one time......dont remember if it was you who posted it though.

I was around for the Dave Dial days, only posted occasionally. Got a new computer, didnt save my Favorites file and it took a month before I found the "new" site. I found it from someone's post about the new site on the old site, it was quickly deleted but the damage was done

[SackAttack]

Originally posted by Blackadar
Actually, they offered it to Josh after I told Tony about Dial. To his credit, he didn't take it.

More properly, Dial offered it to me, with the condition that Tony and Blackie had to be immediately banned from the board. To that point, Tony hadn't done *anything* wrong (and really, his comments today are the first harsh words I've even read from him on the subject). It was the mere potential for him to open his mouth that had Dial scared, and so he wanted Tony silenced.

He wanted Blackie silenced because Blackie wouldn't kowtow. Had Dial just said "Here you go, we'd like you to run the site free and clear, no interference whatsoever" and then faded out...I probably would have taken him up on it, if reluctantly, to make sure that the site would continue to operate the way it always had. I wasn't comfortable with the idea of somebody who didn't know the community at all stepping in and screwing things up.

As it turned out, somebody who didn't know the community DID step in after I told Dial where to go, how to get there, and what to do with himself along the way. And, as luck would have it...things have turned out for the better despite that.

Just my 2 cents, anyway.

Oh, and JG - I think the "Who is John Galt?" thing was a smartassed comment on my part, although I don't remember the circumstances. I don't know if Rand was being mentioned, or if I just had her on the brain because I was reading "Atlas Shrugged," or what. It's been too long.

Josh

[IMetTrentGreen]

i came in around the same time bucc did then, i guess, under a different name, though

[John Galt]

Originally posted by SackAttack
Oh, and JG - I think the "Who is John Galt?" thing was a smartassed comment on my part, although I don't remember the circumstances. I don't know if Rand was being mentioned, or if I just had her on the brain because I was reading "Atlas Shrugged," or what. It's been too long.

Josh

That's funny. I didn't remember who asked the question - I had kind of assumed it was someone who left long ago. I guess I should thank you for "naming" me.

[SackAttack]

In some cultures, to name something is to assume ultimate control over it. Be careful what you wish for.

[Franklinnoble]

I was around, but under a different handle, and not all that active.... didn't pay much attention to all the drama.

[Marmel]

I honestly don't know if I was around. It all sounds so familiar to me though...

[superbama]

I cannot believe you people would talk poorly of my boy Dave Dial Shame