NBA Draft thread

[Samdari]

Being somewhat of a draftnik, I actually find the NBA draft far more interesting than the NBA. I am wondering what all your thoughts/predictions are for your favorite NBA teams/college players.

If you did not know, I am a die hard SU fan. There is no excitement for us as (a) we know where Carmelo is going and (b) its Denver.

So, I will make two predictions about this year's draft, one riser and one faller:

Riser: Troy Bell will vault into the first round. He was rated the best athlete in the draft, and noone doubts his ability to score in the NBA. He is ready to play/help right away, something attractive to teams at the end of the first round. My guess: Lakers.

Faller: TJ Ford. I know this will probably piss a lot of people off, but it seems to be happening. Once thought to be the easy choice as #4 pick, he has clearly ceded that title to Chris Bosh, and the #1 PG slot to Kirk Hinrich. He is undersized, and if that is true in the NBA, you need to be either a great shooter, or quicker than everyone else. Noone ever confused Ford with a shooter, and they found out in Chicago that he was not very quick. I see him falling out of the top 10. The Wizards will take him at 10, dooming whatever chance he had to succeed.

[Easy Mac]

Last I heard Denver was still trying to get rid of the #3. For some reason they either don't want Melo, or wan't something better in return.

I think Bosh is highly overrated. He didn't show me anything while at GT.

Ford is too small to be effective. He can't shoot, and I don't think he is enough like Jason Kidd to overcome that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Darko rulez!

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
Last I heard Denver was still trying to get rid of the #3. For some reason they either don't want Melo, or wan't something better in return.

I think Bosh is highly overrated. He didn't show me anything while at GT.

Ford is too small to be effective. He can't shoot, and I don't think he is enough like Jason Kidd to overcome that.

The Denver thing is a myth, if for only one reason: The Nuggets couldn't afford the PR hit. They are actually more in love with the guy than they'll admit.

There are some rumors the Nuggets are going to package Camby and Rodney White for a middle/late first round pick. Who knows what they are interested in there.

I don't think Ford slips out of the top 10. He may slip, but someone will grab him early. He's better than people think. Maybe not a hall of fame worthy player, but he's got quicks and smarts.

The two names that have slipped (some believe out of round 1) that I think can help teams are David West and Luke Walton. Again, not all-stars or franchise guys, but I think these two can help virtually any team they go to right from the start.

One last note Samdari, I wouldn't be so harsh on the Nugs. Issel made a lot of stupid trades which nearly destroyed the organization. So far, Kiki has brought in a lot of talent and has some money to spend to get us better. If Carmelo is the franchise type guy I think he'll be, they'll surround him with the right people.

Don't forget, Kroenke owns the Rams and the Avalanche also. He knows how to build winners. He first had to get the Nuggets out of salary cap hell to do it. This won't be a black hole for Melo' if he's a player.

TroyF

[Easy Mac]

supposedly its a salary dump to the Blazers. I also heard they made be interested in getting Rasheed, but that may be a myth as well.

[TroyF]

Easy,

If the Nugs pass on Anthony and don't get a bigtime superstar in return (I'm talking Garnett like), they may as well get the Mayflower vans started up.

TroyF

[Samdari]

Originally posted by TroyF
I don't think Ford slips out of the top 10... he's got quicks...

Well, he did not measure particularly quick at the NBA version of the combine. If you are Iverson small, you better be Iverson quick, and I don' t think he is. I think he goes lotto, if not top 10, but that is a slip from 4.

Originally posted by TroyF
One last note Samdari, I wouldn't be so harsh on the Nugs. Issel made a lot of stupid trades which nearly destroyed the organization. So far, Kiki has brought in a lot of talent and has some money to spend to get us better. If Carmelo is the franchise type guy I think he'll be, they'll surround him with the right people.

Don't forget, Kroenke owns the Rams and the Avalanche also. He knows how to build winners. He first had to get the Nuggets out of salary cap hell to do it. This won't be a black hole for Melo' if he's a player.

I thought Georgia Frontiere owned the Rams? She was dancing with them when they won?

I am not so down on Denver as a team. I think they got a stud last year with Hilario, and might have a player in Skita. If White can play SG and they get Arenas, and Melo does not become Billy Owens, they have something. I also think Bzde... Bdze... umm, their coach, got more of out of his team than anyone last year.

My primary dissatisfaction is that it will take them a couple of years to be good, so for the next two years, I'll see Melo twice a year on tv. The cavs, on the other hand, will suck worse than the nugs, yet be the opening night game on TNT.

[Alf]

NBA Draft will be watched in France because at least Michael Pietrus (supposedly Top 15) & Boris Diaw (late 1st) should be drafted...

[mckerney]

Bell could, and I hope he does, end up with the Timberwolves. They may be dumping Terrell Brandon's salary soon which will help alot. If not, I hope they go for someone who is the player Joe Smith should be and can play tough inside.

Oh, and most overrated player in the draft is Rick Rickert. I know he's not projected to go in the first round currently, but the second round is too high for him. Having watched him all last year he's either not tough enough or just refusing to play tough around the basket. He mad a huge mistake and is just not ready yet.

[mckerney]

Alf - Please tell me those two are better than Frederick Weiss.

[TroyF]

Sam,

You're right on Ford to a point. I still think he'll be better than what people think.

Kroenke owns the team with Georgia. He's a guy who likes to stay out of the spotlight.

I don't think White will be a shooting gaurd anytime soon. If the flies on the wall around Denver are believable, he may be traded tonight. The Nuggets will be bringing in some new guards this offseason. Artest is the top candidate, but there will be others.

TroyF

[Neuqua]

It appears like the Bulls may draft Dwayne Wade out of Marquette if he's available at #7. With JWill going down, I don't see us getting equal value in a trade and so this may be the best pick for us. Although I have heard a few rumors about the Bulls going after Pietrus who has looked great from what I've seen of him.

[Samdari]

Neuqua - the Bulls pick 7th.

[John Galt]

I don't understand the Ford defenders. He isn't as short as people thought (based on Chicago's measurements) despite the fact that the media continues to say he is shorter. I believe that, but that is where I stop.

Ford is Jacque Vaughan (who is actually slightly underrated these days). He isn't that quick, has a good head for the same, and will probably play average to below average defense in the NBA. He is going to be a decent PG for his career that his team will constantly be looking to replace, but who could do well on a winning team. In other words, he should be a late 1st round pick. The so-called intangibles don't offset a poor shooting PG.

[Neuqua]

Oops, I gotta stop waking up so early.

[cmp]

I have the feeling that Ford will be like Mateen Cleaves in the NBA.

[Samdari]

Well, despite being the first one to "rip" Ford here, I tend to think the Vaughn comparisons are closer than Cleaves. I got a chuckle out of your post nonetheless.

[BreizhManu]

Originally posted by mckerney
Alf - Please tell me those two are better than Frederick Weiss.

of course they are

[TroyF]

I, fo one, don't think that Ford compares to Vaughn at all. I mean zero.

Lets look at the differences:

In Vaughn's senior year, he averaged 7 shot attempts, a little over 4 free throw attempts, and just over 2 rebounds a game. (total averages were 10 points, 6 assists, 2 boards, and a )

Last year Ford averaged 12 shot attempts per game, went to line 6 times a game, and added 4 boards per game. (totals were 15 points, 8 assists, 4 boards, and a 2.4-1 TO ratio)

Cleaves finished worse than Ford in about every statistical category as well. (half the boards, less points, less average trips to the FT line, etc.)

Cleaves and Vaughn are two different style players. I think Ford is more of a combination of the two. He's a more gifted passer than either of the two IMO.

I also don't get the "can't shoot" part. Everyone acts as though shooting is a set in stone skill that never develops. He's 20 years old. There isn't any reason he can't work and develop that part of his game more.

I liken him to a Tony Parker type player. He's an inch or two shorter, but just as fast and probably better with the ball. I don't see any MVP awards in his future, but I do think he can be a starting point guard on a good team.

TroyF

[mckerney]

Originally posted by BreizhManu
of course they are

Well, I suppose they couldn't be any worse. I still remember when the Knicks drafted Weiss, I just sat there thinking, "What the hell? They picked who?" Such a waste...

[John Galt]

Originally posted by TroyF
I, fo one, don't think that Ford compares to Vaughn at all. I mean zero.

Lets look at the differences:

In Vaughn's senior year, he averaged 7 shot attempts, a little over 4 free throw attempts, and just over 2 rebounds a game. (total averages were 10 points, 6 assists, 2 boards, and a )

Last year Ford averaged 12 shot attempts per game, went to line 6 times a game, and added 4 boards per game. (totals were 15 points, 8 assists, 4 boards, and a 2.4-1 TO ratio)

Cleaves finished worse than Ford in about every statistical category as well. (half the boards, less points, less average trips to the FT line, etc.)

Cleaves and Vaughn are two different style players. I think Ford is more of a combination of the two. He's a more gifted passer than either of the two IMO.

I also don't get the "can't shoot" part. Everyone acts as though shooting is a set in stone skill that never develops. He's 20 years old. There isn't any reason he can't work and develop that part of his game more.

I liken him to a Tony Parker type player. He's an inch or two shorter, but just as fast and probably better with the ball. I don't see any MVP awards in his future, but I do think he can be a starting point guard on a good team.

TroyF

Vaughn and Ford played in different systems and had different demands placed upon them based on surrounding talent. I agree as college players they were not the same. I think, as pro players, they will be the same. The belief in intangibles in a PG is usually a sign to run, run away. PG's in the NBA are TOTALLY different than PG's in the college ranks. The transition is the hardest for probably any position on the court. Players with less quickness, less shots, but good heads are usually the ones that don't make the transition as well.

And yes, he is young and can develop his shot, but most players don't. The physical play in the NBA usualy makes people get worse. The same thing was said about Larry Hughes' shot, but he still is lucky if he is above 40%. Jerry Stackhouse is now a "veteran" and he can't hit the broadside of a barn. And don't get me started on the new mad bomber - Antoine Walker. Some players do improve their shot when they go to the NBA - most don't.

And I don't think he is as quick as Parker. We both agree that he can be a good PG for a good team. The problem is that good teams don't pick in the top ten. He should be a good pickup in the late first-round - instead, he'll be seen as a bust of a lottery pick.

[TroyF]

John,

Stackhouse and Hughes problem isn't their shooting, it's their shot selection. The two are VERY different things.

TroyF

[John Galt]

Originally posted by TroyF
John,

Stackhouse and Hughes problem isn't their shooting, it's their shot selection. The two are VERY different things.

TroyF

You are probably right about Stackhouse, but Hughes just can't shoot. It is always hard to separate the two, though. When you always shoot and don't make that many, you never know if you just can't shoot or if you have a peanut for a brain.

[tucker342]

Originally posted by John Galt

Ford is Jacque Vaughan (who is actually slightly underrated these days). He isn't that quick, has a good head for the same, and will probably play average to below average defense in the NBA. He is going to be a decent PG for his career that his team will constantly be looking to replace, but who could do well on a winning team. In other words, he should be a late 1st round pick. The so-called intangibles don't offset a poor shooting PG.

I completely agree with your assessment of Ford

[TroyF]

Originally posted by John Galt
You are probably right about Stackhouse, but Hughes just can't shoot. It is always hard to separate the two, though. When you always shoot and don't make that many, you never know if you just can't shoot or if you have a peanut for a brain.

True enough. I don't think Hughes has the heart or the work ethic of Ford though.

It's what makes the draft in any sport fun. I love the differing opinions.

TroyF

[Samdari]

Originally posted by TroyF
I don't think Hughes has the heart or the work ethic of Ford though

Agreed. We may have also found the lone NBA backcourt starter who is a worse shooter than Ford.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Samdari
Agreed. We may have also found the lone NBA backcourt starter who is a worse shooter than Ford.

Really?

I don't think he'll be the worst, or even second worse in the league. We'll see.

TroyF

[Samdari]

Well I was more trying to channel Hughes, but look at Ford's 3pt %. Shudder. Repeat.

[Craptacular]

I'll have to try and catch some of this tonight. Even though the Bucks pissed me off to no end by trading Glenn Robinson and Ray Allen, while keeping Sam Cassell and signing Anthony Mason, I'm interested to see which way they go in the draft. As usual, they need an inside force, but probably won't be in a position to draft a good big man (I'm not too thrilled with the likes of Kaman, etc). Do they grab another PG/SG assuming The Glove is going bye-bye? I'm not sold on TJ Ford (if he's still there at #8), but I definitely hope they don't take Heinrich. The Bucks have Desmond Mason and Michael Redd at the 2 (3 for a small lineup), but I still wouldn't mind seeing them draft Dwayne Wade or Reece Gaines (Gaines is from Madison). The last time the Bucks picked in the top 10, they drafted Dirk Nowitzki ... and promptly traded him AND Pat Garrity to the Mavs for Robert Traylor. Yeah, that worked out real well.

[cincyreds]

The Mavericks have the last pick, so I am hoping that they can get a pretty good defender. Somebody who can help us out down low in the paint.

We need a guy that can push his weight around. I will be watching tonight to see what all develops.

The Draft hoopla is pretty good here.

[JeeberD]

I've been hearing that the Mavs may take a 6-11 dude from the Senegal (I think). Supposedly he's good defensivly, but very raw...

[SunDancer]

Why is the NBA letting ESPN taking the draft to the same place as the NFL Draft. I like the city-by-city tour. Anyone else fear a Mel Kiper Jr.-clone will show up? I like TNT's NBA Draft Coverage before losing the rights.

[Schmidty]

Darko!!!!!

[korme]

Denver... new blue color? I don't like..... that yellow on the logo looks terrible, how about they just stick to the navy/gold.

[MrBug708]

Shorty, different Uni's mean more wins, didn't you know?

[korme]

Originally posted by JeeberD
I've been hearing that the Mavs may take a 6-11 dude from the Senegal (I think). Supposedly he's good defensivly, but very raw...

The Cavs would probably tell them to not do it.

A very raw player from a few years back out of a crazy country, DeSagana Diop. He's still bad.

[korme]

Big boos for Riley! AND HE WAVES AND SAYS HELLO! hahahahaha

[kiwiLB57]

Hoping that Kirk Penney gets picked up. He would be the 2nd New Zealander to play in the NBA.

[damnMikeBrown]

You know, I fully set out to watch the draft, but I just can't take it anymore. Every interview with a draft pick, and I just flip the channel. I've now permanently flipped. I can't take listening to them anymore.

[bigdawg2003]

#1 - LeBron James - Cleveland - LeBron will be an All-Star and MVP canidate some day. I'm not gonna proclaim him a HOFer before he plays

#2 - Darko Milicic - Detroit - People talk about how soft he is, but somebody on ESPN made the point that he'll have Ben Wallace clearing the paint for him. He'll be better off the bat than people expect and be one of the better NBA big men in time.

#3 - Carmelo Anthony - Denver - I'll say LeBron will be an MVP candidate, but I'll say Carmelo will be special. After seeing the Final Four in person, I have no doubts that he will be Rookie of the Year and will be one of the top 10 players in the NBA in a few years.

#4 - Chris Bosh - Toronto - I think if he and Carmelo switched schools, the results would have been similar. Maybe Syracuse wouldn't have won the title, but they still would've been very good. Having said that, I haven't seen him enough to say he's as special as Anthony, but he should be pretty good.

#5 - Dwayne Wade - Miami - The first pick of the night that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What are they gonna do about Eddie Jones? Wade is definately good enough to be the #5 pick, but Miami could've done better by taking one of the two big PGs (Hinrich, Ford).

#6 - Chris Kaman - Los Angeles Clippers - I wondered how the Clippers would fuck this draft up. I should've seen it coming. Kaman will be a bust, just like every player like him (Pryzbilla and Mihm ring a bell).

#7 - Kirk Hinrich - Chicago - Hinrich wouldn't be a Bull if it weren't for Jay Williams' motorcycle accident. I think he'll be a quality starting PG, but won't be a special player (and by special, I mean multiple time All-Star and MVP candidate).

#8 - TJ Ford - Milwaukee - Being from Austin, I've seen quite a bit of Ford, and I think the height concerns are silly. He measured six feet tall in Chicago and shot well in private workouts. I think in time Chicago will regret taking Hinrich over Ford, but not because Hinrich will suck.

#9 - Mike Sweetney - New York - Yeah, just what the Knicks need, another undersized big man. Just because he went to the same school as Ewing doesn't mean he'll grow four inches and be as good. At least he's in the East so he won't have to go up against all of those Western Conference big men, who would eat him alive.

#10 - Jarvis Hayes - Washington - EDIT: Havok said it better than I, and I totally agree with him, so I'll just paste his response.


"I think you meant to say, that he'll be average until we trade him then he'll become the best rebounder/defender in the league (Ben Wallace). Or we'll become a 20ppg/10rpg PF (Rashed Wallace) or he'll become a 22ppg SG (Richard Hamliton). The list goes on and on........"


#11 - Mickael Pietrus - Golden State - Everything I've read about this guy is good, and the limited game footage I've seen is good. The Warriors seem to be turning it around; I think this will end up working. Glad to see they didn't take that high schooler Ebi; that would've been a TERRIBLE pick, even if it ensured Arenas re-signing.

#12 - Nick Collison - Seattle - The next Christian Laettner. Another of many guys who will go down as "Great college player, average at best pro".

#13 - Marcus Banks - Memphis - I don't like UNLV players, and I think Gaines will be better. Surprised the Grizz didn't take Lampe, seeing as they have Lorenzen Wright at Center and West loves the international guys. If Pietrus had fallen, he would've been the pick here. Too bad the Rockets couldn't have kept this pick.

#14 - Luke Ridnour - Seattle - Glad to see the Sonics didn't waste both of their first round picks. Will probably be nearly or as good as Hinrich as a pro. I think the Magic had their eye on Gaines, so I expect him to go next.

#15 - Reece Gaines - Orlando - No surprise here. T-Mac is one of my favorite players, and seeing how Grant Hill has worked out, I think Orlando deserves a little good luck. Also, The Louisville-Memphis C-USA tournament game this season was one of the best games this season.

#16 - Troy Bell - Boston - Is Red Auerbach dead? If so, did the Celtics' ability to draft well go with him? Reminds me of the Fred Jones and Juan Dixon picks last year. If he had gone in the 2nd round, I would've called it a good pick. But at #16, it's a bad value pick.

#17 - Zarko Cabarkapa - Phoenix - It's always fun to hear Stern try to pronounce these crazy foreign names, so in that respect I like the pick. They struck gold last year with Stoudemire last year, but something tells me Zarko won't be that good.

#18 - David West - New Orleans - Similar to Bell; a player that would've been a good pick in the late first-early second round, but is bad value in the mid first round. I think he'll be good though, but you have to question every move by New Orleans with the two stooges for owners and the two moron coaches.

#19 - Aleksandar Pavlovic - Utah - I hate the Jazz, so I hope he turns out to be a total stiff. I hate the Jazz because I was at the Conference Final game between Utah and Houston that saw Stockton hit the game winner to send them to the finals. Was that 1998? I wrote that before they made the pick. I have a feeling he could be another Kirilenko for the Jazz, which pisses me off. Why can't they channel the drafting abilities of Boston?

#20 - Dahntay Jones - Boston - It seems Boston will be trading Bell and Jones to Memphis for Banks and the #27 pick. Great trade for the Celtics, and what is Memphis thinking. Just because you barely missed out on LeBron doesn't mean you should just throw away your draft. But like Vitale said; "Jerry West knows what he's doing." Right now I have my doubts.

#21 - Boris Diaw - Atlanta - Like most foreign players, I know nothing about him, but I do know he had a first round promise from Utah a few years ago, so I assume the Hawks are getting a good player.

#22 - Zoran Planinic - New Jersey - See Diaw, Boris. Totally clueless.

#23 - Travis Outlaw - Portland - Figures the Blazers would take a kid named Outlaw. Should fit in perfectly with that group if he lives up to his name. Outside of LeBron, none of the high schoolers seem to be good enough to be in the draft.

#24 - Brian Cook - Los Angeles Lakers - Just like Utah. I hope he turns out to be the next Mark Madsen in terms of total suckitude. Just heard Kobe will become a free agent next season. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Suck on that Laker bandwagoners! OK, once again all of that was written before the draft, and once again they got a player who has a good shot of earning his keep. I gotta stop doing that.

#25 - Carlos Delfino - Detroit - Foreign player=BD knows nothing about him. He's from Arg-entina, so I assume he's a Ginobili clone, which is good for Detroit.

#26 - Ndudi Ebi - Minnesota - Where'd they get this first round pick? Did they pull a fast one on David Stern? Looks like they're looking for the next Garnett; not going to get it here.

#27 - Kendrick Perkins - Memphis - I'm glad Minnesota and Memphis took these guys so San Antonio wouldn't be tempted. COME ON SAN ANTONIO, TAKE LAMPE!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah, Perkins will be a bust, just like Ebi and Outlaw.

#28 - Leandrinho Barbosa - San Antonio - It may not be Lampe, but we've had luck with foreign point guards at the #28 spot. Knowing the buyout troubles with Lampe, it makes sense for Lampe to go to Mark Cuban and the Mavs.

#29 - Josh Howard - Dallas - What are the Mavs doing drafting a guy who can play defense? Makes no sense, they need a guy who can score. It's all about putting the ball in the basket BAY-BEE!

There's no way I'm doing this for the 2nd round, I'm done.

[korme]

Are the Sonics officially the 'Sonics' now? Everyone calls them the Sonics, but I do like tradition, and during the draft, they should still say 'The Seattle Supersonics select'... but nooooooooo, Stern had to say Sonics. I do not like this change.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Shorty3281
Denver... new blue color? I don't like..... that yellow on the logo looks terrible, how about they just stick to the navy/gold.

I actually kind of like it. My favorite sports uniforms of all time are the powder blue of the Chargers. Too early to tell, but I think at first glance these have the same feel.

TroyF

[Sublime]

Can't wait to see who my C's take at 16 and 20

[daedalus]

I like Ford as a player but I'm with JG on this, I think he'll be a nice part player in the NBA more than anything. I think he'll find it tougher to simply blow by people in the NBA. Along with the aforementioned Vaughn and Cleaves, a possible comparison may be Charlie Ward. Unlike the other two, though, he's now developed a pretty decent shot (in the few times I've seen the Knicks, I think).

I think somebody is going to get a heck of a bargain in the 2nd with Blake, though. I dig that guy as a point.

Kind of a weird pick for the Warriors, though. Yet another guy to play the same position they are stocked at?

[Havok]

#10 - Jarvis Hayes - Washington - I know nothing about this guy, but knowing it's the Wizards, he'll probably end up sucking.

I think you meant to say, that he'll be average until we trade him then he'll become the best rebounder/defender in the league (Ben Wallace). Or we'll become a 20ppg/10rpg PF (Rashed Wallace) or he'll become a 22ppg SG (Richard Hamliton). The list goes on and on........

[Schmidty]

Troy Bell at 16? What a wasted pick.

[daedalus]

Havok . . . you're a bitter, bitter man.

I can't believe that Brian Cook is available halfway through this draft. I know he is supposedly dropping but, dang, that's a bit far.

[korme]

Originally posted by Sublime
Can't wait to see who my C's take at 16 and 20

Surprise, surprise, Troy Bell. 10 picks higher than he was expected to go, but the Celts do need a PG (and a C), so I don't think this was such a bad pick. I like Bell alot, actually.

[cmp]

Looks like Detroit might be able to pick up some good talent at #25. Maybe Diaw will fall to 25, or possibly Lampe. Carlos Delfino might be the pick though.

[Neuqua]

Something the Bulls wanted to address this summer was to find a flat-out shooter.

Hinrich should fit in nicely with the team, especially if he can continue nailing the outside shots he's going to get from teams who double Curry (who is a beast by the way.)

I admit, I was very surprised when it happened, but now that I think about it, it does make sense.