Engagement Rings

[Esquared1]

Hello all,

After looking at these things for the first time, I learned a few things:

1) Rings are as expensive has I thought
2) When it is time to buy a ring, do so at the end of the month. It seems like one can get a better deal.
3) Chain store (e.g. Kay's) have salespeople who can be as relentless as a car salesperson. Since sold cars for three years, it was not a problem, just an observation.

Other than the obvious, such as 'Don't do it' or 'Just take your money to Vegas', do any of you have any additional pieces of advice?

[FrogMan]

Does she really need a big ring? I'm not saying she wouldn't like a big ring, I'm just thinking when me and the FrogWoman got married, she had already told me she didn't need/want a big ring I felt she was sincere and I got her smoething reasonable instead of something way out of my price. Maybe it's because she's a mechanical engineer and not too much into the girlie stuff... Or maybe I just got lucky

anyway, best of luck!

FM

[cthomer5000]

don't do it! take your money to Vegas!

[Esquared1]

Frog Man:

Good point.

I'm thinking you got lucky.

I am a naturally cheap person, but I guess I see the value in spending a little extra on something that she will like for a lifetime.

Also, I'm not one to care deeply about the future in-laws' materialistic attitude about things, but it seems important to get something nice. It would save her the anquish of hearing her parents doubt her because of ring I bought her.

I digress into my other problems. . . does anybody have some advise, funny stories, places to avoid, etc. ?

[oykib]

...and another one bites the dust!

[DolphinFan1]

Believe it or not, we got our rings, engagement and wedding at JC Penney. They were pretty reasonable.

[sabotai]

Actually, I think we'd be more interested in your other problems.

But seriously, he's my advice.

Do not buy it on a holiday or her birthday. Do not give it to her on a holiday or her birthday.

Why? Simple. Just in case something happens and you end up not getting married, you get the ring back by law. But if you give it to her, or buy it, on a holiday or her birthday, she can claim that it was a gift and then she keeps it. Just in case...

On the ring itself. You don't need the best color, but you don't want a yellow one either. If you have a friend who notices subtle color differences, take them with you. If you or they notice any significant yellowish color to it, don't get it. H or better color seems to be a good standard (At least, that's what a few girls have told me.)

Don't buy a diamond that has a clarity of imperfect or slightly included. VS2 or better.

Between 3/4 caret and 1 1/2 caret, 2 carets if you got the money. Anything more than 2 carets is overkill. Besides, once you get into the bigger stones, you'll start getting lesser quality. Large high quality stones are pretty expensive. So if you get a 2 caret stone, best check for clarity and color. I don't know your price range, so I'll play it conservativly here.

And of course, don't get a stone that is cut too deep or shallow or it will definatly show in the reflection it makes. Girls want diamonds that sparkle.

That's all I can really remember from the girls who have been kind enough to share the info with me.

[Easy Mac]

I'd get my girl a ring, but seeing as how I have exactly 61 dollars to my name, and have yet to get paid for 4 weeks of work this summer, it might be a while.

But look for the Easy Mac engagement sometime in mid-late august.

[tucker342]

Just make one out of tinfoil, that's what I'm going to do

[Maple Leafs]

Find out what she wants. For my wife, she wanted something big but the most important thing for her was the quality of the cut. You can get a big ring, over a carat, fairly cheap if you skimp on the other stuff. But if she wants a quality stone, you need to know that going in.

Also, do your homework. The chain stores will try to sell you a "good" cut stone as if it's the best there is, but there's really a few levels higher (the chains don't often carry them, though). Don't let them start the "medium", "good", "very good" routine: You want to know what the cut quality is on the scale of 0-10 (0 being best).

[TredWel]

I actually bought an engagement ring online. www.bluenile.com is the online jeweler of repute. Their prices are very fair, and I was able to get a quality 1/2 carat ring (the size she wanted balanced with the size I could afford as a poor college student) for $1000 that I probably would have paid over $1500 for in a B&M jewelers.

They independently certify every ring they sell as well. And, I had mine certified locally as well, and I indeed recieved the ring as advertised.

Also, it's a good idea to ask her exactly what she wants (or, god forbid, expects) in terms of size and quality, and make sure you know her ring size. My fiancee had never worn a ring in her life, so I took a guess and was a half size off. Resizing a ring is easy, but still.

If you do go to a B&M jewelers, know your stuff. There are good sites online to learn the basics from, and a trip to your library couldn't hurt much either. Go in with a lot of knowledge, not only about diamonds and the rating system, but about crooked diamond sellers' techniques. And, just like buying a car, be prepared to haggle.

[Esquared1]

Awesome!

Thanks for all the great advice. (I will respond to all, since you all gave a bunch of advice.)

Thankfully, the future Esquared1 does not have "stats" in mind, but I think the whole sparkle thing is very important. After looking at five different places, the cut seemed to be the most important.

As for our problems, they are few are far between. I did post a little story about farting into a fan, and delivering a payload of stink into her face. It seems I owe you guys something.

I did some reading at Blue Nile before I went looking, just to know the lingo. When you know the terms, it became apperant the certain places will emphesize certain attributes according to the diamond they are trying to sell. I know all sorts of salespeople try this when they sell, I guess that turned me off to the whole thing. I agree that Blue Nile seems reasonable, but I guess I would feel better seeing it before buying it. I am glad everything worked out on your end with it, since I might go that route.

A quick question: I usually have an idea when a salesperson is less than honest. What are some less-than-obvious clues that a jeweler is shady?

PS. Easy Mac: I think you should go first anyhow. That way, if you mess up, you can tell me what not to do when I pop the question.

[Easy Mac]

well, i have it all planned out, picked out the $1500 ring (not very expensive, but I' hoping to make twice that much by the end of the summer and I have to survive shool next year). Gonna propose where we first met and have worked together the past 2 school years. I've already set up my plan so she won't suspect anything (i.e visit her for lunch during the week and go over there to visit "co-workers" a few times so she thinks its a normal thing).

[sabotai]

"What are some less-than-obvious clues that a jeweler is shady?"

....that they are selling jewelry is an obvious clue that they are less than honest.

[Esquared1]

You are definitely many steps ahead of me. It's good to have it planned out. It is much better than this:

Easy Mac's Girlfriend (EMG)- So why did you visit me at work?
Easy Mac: I was thinking about asking you to marry me.
EMG: Right.
Easy Mac: Seriously, I got you a ring and everything.

It is good to have a plan.

Actually, the hardest part of my deal will to ask her father for her hand in marriage. Since he only speaks Italian, this makes things a little tricky. I would hate to accentally ask "May I marry your son?", or "May I marry you?"

That would mean I would have to buy two rings.

[mckerney]

Be careful before you actually buy the ring. When you're looking at one, just look at the price and think, "What kind of deal could I get on paper bags for this much," cause sometimes the money would be much better spent on paper bags. Another thing to consider is "What Would Fritz Do?"

[Esquared1]

I think the answer to WWFD has something to do with "foil-wrapped zucchinis", but I'm not sure. I think the cost of the foil alone is more than paper bags, Then again, I am relatively new to posting around here, so what do I know. . .

[sabotai]

"I would hate to accentally ask "May I marry your son?", or "May I marry you?" "

Or "May I marry your dog?" or "May I marry your chair?" or "May I marry your spagetti dinner?"

[Shkspr]

When I picked out my stone, I got very tired of trying to figure out the relationship between the carat size, the color, and the clarity, to know how each contributed to the price. I would go in looking at items in "my price range", only to encounter the sales stretch. I finally began asking each jeweller if they just had some kind of spreadsheet for stones that I could look at to educate myself. I was told several times that there was such an art to the process that no such thing existed.

Until I found a guy who showed me his buy sheet.

He handed me a printout about 40 pages long that showed all the diamonds that were available from his suppliers back East. They were ranked by cut, then color, with lists under each heading that showed the size, the clarity, the price, and most importantly, the price per carat. By jotting down the price per carat for the approximate ranges of color and clarity I was interested in, I could see where the tradeoffs were, and could look more readily at individual stones, knowing both which were overpriced and how many steps up or down in quality I needed to look to match my price range.

The readiness of this guy to show me his buy sheet and let me educate myself on what was a good buy or not was the major tipoff that I could trust him. Another factor that I think might come into play was this: he's the guy who has the contracts to perform alterations for each of the other jewellers in the area that don't have their own facilities. For instance, when you go into Zales to have a ring resized, or when you go back because a stone has fallen out, find out where they send the rings to to be redone. Even for the large chains, there's a good chance that it's someone local. Go see if THAT guy has a showroom.

Finally, occasions like this are an excellent reason to look into joining a fraternal organization of some sort. A person's a little less likely to cheat a fellow member of the Order of Water Buffalo than Joe Shlep.

When you do ask dad for her hand, don't let him try to sell her to you. You'll have to save all your money for the honeymoon.

[JAG]

I just went through this process, so I'd be happy to share my experience with you.

I ended up getting the diamond off of Blue Nile. When I took the ring to be appraised, it ended up being worth about 20% more than I paid. Their selection seemed to be better than anywhere else I had looked. I also used this website for some information on the buying process: http://www.bridaltips.com/diamond.htm Some of their advice seems over the top to me, but it was a good source of information. One thing I'll say though, Blue Nile's selection of settings wasn't as good as chain type stores, so if your woman is particular on a style she wants, you'd probably be better off shopping at a chain jeweler-type place.

Another final word of advice: it's best if you know what she wants in a ring. The type of ring my financee actually wanted was far different from what I would've guessed. It's a lot more fun when they really like the ring, although I'm sure she'll like it anyway.

Good luck!

JAG

[albionmoonlight]

Take one of her spare rings when she is not looking and get it sized--that way you will know her ring size.

I don't know what Lake Villa is like, but I found that buying a ring not in a big city was a good deal. If someone has a showroom in the nice part of downtown Chicago, you will be paying more for a ring there then you would otherwise--in effect, you are helping pay their rent.

The ring is the thing, and if you can find a great ring at the right price in a modest or out of the way store--that is better than a great ring at an expensive price in a trendy store.

I got my ring from a local Chapel Hill artisian--not a local jewler--so I ended up not paying as much, and got a very interesting and unique ring, too. (NOTE: I knew beforehand that she liked this style of ring. I would not go out on a limb style wise if I was not sure that she would like it.)

Oh--and congrats.

[Ksyrup]

I got lucky and only had to buy the setting for our engagement ring. My wife had a family diamond that was passed down. To have it set cost me all of $100.

This past Saturday was our anniversary (6 years), and she decided that I had skated long enough, and that her engagement ring needed some "company," so I bought her a jacket for it that cost around $700. We got it at Marks & Morgan (they own, or are owned by, the same company that owns pretty much every jewelry store in the mall) and they were having a 12 months, no interest sale. I think we had to put down 10 or 20%, and we have to pay a minimum amount per month until it is paid off. Pretty good deal - better than forking out $700+ on the spot.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by Esquared1
A quick question: I usually have an idea when a salesperson is less than honest. What are some less-than-obvious clues that a jeweler is shady?

- As posted above, they try to tell you that a "good" cut is the best there is.

- They spend a lot of time hyping the setting. You're there to buy a stone... in fact, depending on what you pay, they may even throw the setting in for free. It's usually easy to switch a stone from one setting to another and they're usually not expensive, so if they're giving you a hard sell about a nice a ring's setting is, it should raise a few flags.

- If they can't give you a straight answer to questions about price. Once you're close to buying you'll have a pretty good idea what your price range is. You should be able to tell them what you're looking for and in what range. If they still try to sell you something for significantly more, get out of there.

- If the guy asks "are you a cop?" more than a dozen times in a five minute conversation, he could be shady.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Esquared1


Actually, the hardest part of my deal will to ask her father for her hand in marriage. Since he only speaks Italian, this makes things a little tricky. I would hate to accentally ask "May I marry your son?", or "May I marry you?"

That would mean I would have to buy two rings.

Learnin' to Talk Italian, Lesson One (In the Restaurant)
Learnin' to Talk Italian, Lesson Two (Polite Disagreement)
Learnin' to Talk Italian, Lesson Three (Dinner Conversation)
Learnin' to Talk Italian, Lesson Four (Useful Terms)

[Mustang]

Just my thoughts since I purchased an engagement ring within the last 2 months.

1. Definitely find out what she likes/wants. When I started looking, I thought my fiance wanted something completely different than she liked. Plus, I didn't consider things such as ring height (she works in a bank and said that if they were set too high, it would catch on things). If you 2 have discussed marriage and you are not making it a complete spur of the moment thing, go out together and look at rings. Find out what she likes not only in the cut but, also in type of metal. If she likes Platinum but, you can't afford it, white gold looks the same. Just get a platinum setting.

2. If the wedding band is going to have diamonds, make sure the diamond you are buying is the same color. If you save on the diamond and get a diamond that is slighly yellowed, you will notice if the wedding band diamonds are white. (One of my co workers had this happen).

3. Stay away from malls.

4. Look at the diamonds under a microscope. this is where you can really see the inclusions and why a diamond is rated differently.

5. People might laugh at this but, there is no rule that states that an engagement ring must be a diamond. So.. if your girlfriend has an absolute love affair with sapphires or rubies or whatever else type of gem is out there...

6. Leave and come back in a few days. I had selected a diamond (in my head), I left and came back a week later and had him bring out the loose diamonds again and I selected the same diamond I did previously...

Hope that helps...

[Castlerock]

First of all, ask her what she wants but below are a few tips to get a nice stone without buying more than you need. But it's all subjective so be aware that this is just what I did. Get a lot of advice and look at a lot of stones.

Color:
This was the most important criteria for me. Others may disagree. You don't want a yellow stone. I went with an "H" color. You can spend a lot more money to get a better color but it's pretty hard to tell an 'H' from a better color when it's mounted in a ring. And that's where you look at.

Clarity:
Along the same lines, I didn't want to pay for clarity that I couldn't see with the naked eye. But you don't want inclusions you can see. I didn't care so much that it has inclusions that are only visible under a loupe. No one is going to look at it under a loupe. Check the individual stone. I saw some "slightly included" stones that I could not detect any inclusions with my naked eye. But some of them I could so look at the stone.

Size:
Check out the prices of stones that are "just under" some thresh-hold. For instance, a 1.00 carat stone might go for $x per carat. A .95 carat stone might go for significantly less. You will not be able to tell a .95 from a 1.00. The size difference is just too small. But you would be surprised at the $$$ difference.

Cut:
Cut is so hard to be objective with. What you are really looking for is "sparkle". I saw plenty of superior cuts that just didn't sparkle as well as some supposedly inferior cuts. You just need to see the stone to be able to judge this (I think).

Good luck.

[heybrad]

Be sure to ask her if she knows why it is that a guy has to fork out money for an engagement ring, while the girl gets the guy nothing. When she has no answer for that, tell her you would like an engagement jetski.

[Swaggs]

Please do not become overjoyed when they tell you that your ring is worth 20%-50% more than you paid for it.

Keep in mind that no jeweler or businessperson will take a loss. They are in the business to make a buck, and rightfully so. Places like Kay's and King's and the like are way, way overpriced for the quality of their diamonds because they have expensive (usually corner) spots in malls. When they say 50% off, that means the original price was probably 75% too high.

I recommend going to a privately owned jeweler that has been in business for a long time. Unlike the 18-22 year old kids working at the retail shops, they will be around after they graduate from college and realize that men who are getting engaged are at the beginning of their jewelery buying careers (suckers) because wives like shiny things.

From an insurance standpoint...when you get your diamond (and entire ring) certified, tell them not to add the markup. Instead, ask him what it would cost an insurance company to replace the diamond and tell them to allow for 5-7 years of inflation (so you do not have to get it re-appraised every year).

Yes, it is nice to say that the ring you paid $2500 is worth $3500 and it looks good to the wife. But, you will end up paying 1/3 (in this case) more on your insurance schedule. And, guess what? Insurance companies all have sweethart deals with favored jewelers that cut them major deals for their business, so if/when you need to use that insurance policy, you do not get a check for $3500, you get whatever a diamond of similar cut, carat, color, and clarity costs from a favored jeweler.

[Easy Mac]

I'd settle for an engagement blowjob, its not like get those anymore... not like i get them now.

[Esquared1]

Hey Brad!

(Sorry, it's my first time doing that.)

Thanks for the recent advice!

Actually, funny how the "cut sheet" and "family owned" came up.. While I was looking, I was most impressed with the family owned place, albeit it was still in the mall. They asked me exactly what I was looking for, and asked more meaningful questions than the other places. They pulled out the cut sheet right away, and picked out a nice diamond. It was a better quality than the others I looked at previously.

The price was around the others, and I really enjoyed the honest of it all. I will either buy it from Blue Nile, or a family-owned place.

Thanks again everybody, this is very helpful.

[digamma]

I went with Blue Nile as well.

I then got the diamond appraised separately and took it to a couple of stores to see if they could beat the price. They couldn't.
I think it ended up being about a $1000-1500 savings versus the comparable rings and prices stores had.

[Anrhydeddu]

I know this is too little, too late. We had a custom ring set made using a diamond from an older ring. What was good about this was that the engangement and wedding bands formed a really nice ring. It cost a little but this was the way to go instead of having two separate rings.

[Esquared1]

I know it's been quite some time since I posted this, but a little update:

The ring is coming in via UPS tomorrow. She wanted a Jack Kelege flower band as an engagement ring. Therefore, it was quite easy to buy it; all I had to do was shop around with the model number. It has no center stone, however, it does have 24ish smaller rings, and it's platinum fashioned in a flower pattern.

In response to a Ping: OK City Folks, I did buy it from Samuel Gordons. The salesperson was completely solid, and insofar as the ring looks as it should, I'll be buying the wedding bands for her and me there too.

Anyhow, I'm thinking of the game plan tonight. Asking her is not the big deal, it's asking the dad who speaks English as a third language. Since I speak no Italian or Spanish, I must choose my words closely.

Again, thanks for everybody's help.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Esquared1

Anyhow, I'm thinking of the game plan tonight. Asking her is not the big deal, it's asking the dad who speaks English as a third language. Since I speak no Italian or Spanish, I must choose my words closely.

If this does not belong in the dynasty forum, then I do not know what does.

[Esquared1]

The family (notice lower caps family) has two Sicilian-English phrase books.

I doubt it will be much help, however.

[Franklinnoble]

I got my wife's engagement ring at Blue Nile, too.

Good prices, and excellent service.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Esquared1

Anyhow, I'm thinking of the game plan tonight. Asking her is not the big deal, it's asking the dad who speaks English as a third language. Since I speak no Italian or Spanish, I must choose my words closely.

I'd recommend avoiding the word embarazada, but beyond that I can't be of much help. Good luck!

[SnDvls]

I went with Helzberg for a couple of reasons.

1) They had the ring my wife wanted
2) They offer a full stone replacement as long as you get it checked at their store(s) twice a year.
3) They do ring upgrades. So if later in life when I make more money we can trade in her ring for a bigger better one.
4) The offer free cleanings when ever she wants, so just about every other mall visit she gets it cleaned to keep it shining.

Just some advice from a married guy.

[Raven Hawk]

My tidbit of advice from having done it twice:

Forget about sidestones. If you have the money to buy sidestones, use it more wisely and upgrade to a larger center stones.

When you buy from Mall Diamond store, the approximate pawn value of your ring will be around 10% of what you pay for it. I learned this after receiving $300 from a pawn shop for a $3000 Kay Jeweler ring after an ex-fiancee dumped me. Needless to say, this $300 was wisely invested in beer and strippers.

The actual price that a diamond store pays for a diamond is usually about 25% of what the list price is. Therefore, when they sell you the diamond for 50% off, they are still getting twice what they paid for it.

Second time around, it was much easier to know what I wanted and get the price that I wanted as well. If you do go to the mall for a diamond, get offers from all 12 stores, then pit them against each other.

Most importantly buy from somebody that you feel comfortable with. I had my salesperson head over to another jewelry store in the mall to show her the ring that I wanted. The jeweler then made me the ring that I wanted with the stone that I wanted for a price that I was comfortable paying.

[korme]

He no longer needs advise! He posted last year.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Raven Hawk

I learned this after receiving $300 from a pawn shop for a $3000 Kay Jeweler ring after an ex-fiancee dumped me. Needless to say, this $300 was wisely invested in beer and strippers.

There is nothing more I can teach you, grasshopper. You have been well trained.

[Raven Hawk]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

He no longer needs advise! He posted last year.

Hahah! So he did. I take back my advice then.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Raven Hawk

Hahah! So he did. I take back my advice then.

He still might need the advice about the beer and hookers... better not delete that post or anything.

[Esquared1]

Does beer and strippers ever go out of style?!

[Celeval]

Late to the discussion - but I'll throw my two cents in for a family jeweler. Of course, the jeweler I used WAS my family.

I had a very specific idea of what my fiancee (for the next eight days) wanted when I started looking, so that helped - my thought in terms of what to look for in a jeweler is one who will work with you in selection, who isn't trying to hard sell, and who will take personal time with you to go over options, pros, and cons.

If anyone around Fairfield, CT needs a recommendation, I can give one. :-D

[JeeberD]

Hmmm...I'm going to need to peruse this thread in greater detail before too much longer...

[rkmsuf]

Don't bow down to the power of the Dad. You should speak perfect english and have this guy get his ass in gear and learn the damn language.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Hmmm...I'm going to need to peruse this thread in greater detail before too much longer...

Another one bites the dust... FOFC is rapidly becoming an old-farts board.

[bamcgee]

Another vote for Blue Nile here. I was very pleased with the ring, and more importantly - so was she.

[jamesUMD]

I second the blue nile experience. I got my setting from Jared and the stone from blue nile and had them set the stone for $85 (the same amount they charge you to set a stone bought from them). You can get a much, much, much better stone that is certified and of much better quality than @ a retail store for a fraction of the price IMO. If anything use the blue nile site to compare the quality of stones you are finding in the stores with the ones @ blue nile. You can use their sliders to adjust for size, cut, color, clarity, carat, and get an approximation on similar prices. I would also check BJ's wholesale website. They had a fantastic diamond buying guide online that totally helped me out and is a great free resource at your disposal. Blue Nile was great.