OT - Clemens in, confused Zito out

JonInMiddleGA · 07-14-2003, 02:53 PM

http://sports.myway.com/news/07142003/v1228.html

By RONALD BLUM

CHICAGO (AP) - Roger Clemens replaced Barry Zito on the American League All-Star roster Monday, with the commissioner's office saying the Oakland left-hander was unable to pitch.

That was news to Zito, who said he found out he was off the roster while sitting with his All-Star teammates in a hotel ballroom, giving interviews.

"If I had some black-and-white explanation, it would make more sense," Zito said.

During the A's 1-0 win at Baltimore on Sunday, the reigning AL Cy Young Award winner threw 106 pitches, getting a no-decision, allowing four hits in eight innings.

Sandy Alderson, executive vice president of baseball operations in the commissioner's office, said Oakland manager Ken Macha and pitching coach Rick Peterson made the decision, and that A's general manager Billy Beane also was involved.

"Barry was informed of that opinion, and acquiesced," Alderson said. "That was information relayed to us, and we acted on that information."

Zito had been in an AL meeting before the session with reporters and said nothing was mentioned to him.

"It has nothing to do with me or my physical situation," he said. "I don't know if they didn't feel comfortable with me pitching on one days' rest."

Clemens ties for the seventh-most All-Star selections among pitchers, trailing Warren Spahn (17), Tom Seaver (12) and Steve Carlton, Don Drysdale, Whitey Ford, Juan Marchial (10 each).

Many New York Yankees thought Clemens should have been among the original picks for the AL All-Stars.

The only six-time Cy Young Award winner, Clemens plans to retire after this season, his 20th in the major leagues. The 40-year-old right-hander, who last month won his 300th game and got his 4,000th strikeout, was bypassed in player voting and wasn't selected by AL manager Mike Scioscia with one of his picks.

Franklinnoble · 07-14-2003, 02:55 PM

Sounds like Zito got screwed. Chalk up one more reason to hate Roger Clemons.

TLK · 07-14-2003, 03:00 PM

The game hasn't even been played and already they've messed it up.....

MylesKnight · 07-14-2003, 03:00 PM

Who was it that said when the Rosters were first announced that MLB would figure out a way to get Dontrelle Willis and Roger Clemens in the game?

MLB never ceases to amaze me...

Swaggs · 07-14-2003, 03:02 PM

Bud Selig is a joke.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-14-2003, 03:15 PM

I think LionKing pretty well covered my reaction to this story. Last year they waited until the end of the game to make a mess of things, this year it looks like they wanted to avoid waiting until the last minute.

ice4277 · 07-14-2003, 03:24 PM

How anybody can stand major league baseball after all the stupid shit it pulls time and time again is beyond me.

Ksyrup · 07-14-2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ice4277
How anybody can stand major league baseball after all the stupid shit it pulls time and time again is beyond me.

Who gives a shit, it's just a freakin' exhibition game. This is really nothing to get worked up about. Who cares if Zito isn't there? He still gets his bonus if it's in his contract. And you still get to see Lance Carter announced as the D-Ray's representative. What more do you want - a real game, like the NFL Pro-Bowl?

Syrinx · 07-14-2003, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ksyrup
.... What more do you want - a real game, like the NFL Pro-Bowl?

Yeah!!!

Oh, wait, that was sarcasm wasn't it...
:o

Franklinnoble · 07-14-2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Who gives a shit, it's just a freakin' exhibition game. This is really nothing to get worked up about. Who cares if Zito isn't there? He still gets his bonus if it's in his contract. And you still get to see Lance Carter announced as the D-Ray's representative. What more do you want - a real game, like the NFL Pro-Bowl?

I think Oakland A's fans give a shit. Zito got hosed just so that petulant whiner Clemons could get into the game in his last season before he retires.

Fonzie · 07-14-2003, 04:47 PM

I'm certainly in agreement with the above-described sentiments about Bud Selig being a joke and MLB pulling a bunch of stupid moves, but I'm not sure that Zito's removal is such a bad idea. Especially if you look at it from the A's, Mike Scoscia's, and MLB's points-of-view.

MLB wanted the All-star game to "matter", so they deemed the winning league the host of the World Series. Fine. That means that the managers and players have should be a bit more invested in winning. Great. If you were Mike Scoscia, wouldn't you want a full-complement of usable pitchers to achieve this task? Especially if the game goes into extra innings, like last year's debacle? Zito just pitched yesterday - he'd clearly be unavailable on Tuesday, unless Scoscia wanted to risk hurting Zito's golden left arm. And do you think Scoscia or the A's would be happy with that outcome? And would MLB want to be blamed for getting a pitcher hurt, or even putting him in position to get hurt, 'cuz his manager needed him to win a suddenly "meaningful" game? The A's would be in a murderous rage if a division rival's managers got their ace hurt, and I'm sure neither Scoscia nor MLB want anything to do with that kind of controversy.

That said, I think they should've talked to Zito about it first. And he should still be allowed to attend, certainly.

So, Scoscia needs a replacement pitcher. One can certainly debate whether Clemens was the right choice here, but I'm inclined to be forgiving about his inclusion as there's a good chance he'll retire after this season. Why not let him play in the All-star game one last time? There might be more worthy pitchers out there, and I'd not have a problem with any of them being selected over Clemens, but I also am not horrified at the thought of Clemens being on the roster.

Just my $.02. Carry on.

BishopMVP · 07-14-2003, 05:03 PM

I believe Roger Clemens is the anti-christ.

IMetTrentGreen · 07-14-2003, 05:05 PM

"Sandy Alderson, executive vice president of baseball operations in the commissioner's office"

didn't he used to be oakland's gm?

clintl · 07-14-2003, 05:22 PM

Yes, he did.

henry296 · 07-14-2003, 05:23 PM

Some newer stories reference that the Ken Macha, Billy Beane and Rick Peterson the Mananger, GM and Pitching coach of the Oakland A's made the decision. I know everyone loves a good conspiracy.

Todd

Buzzbee · 07-14-2003, 05:38 PM

I haven't given it a lot of thought, but I'd like to see the Manager's given the option of making a special selection. A few years ago there was a controversy involving Cal Ripken. I can't remember the details, but basically he was having an average year, but because he was Cal Ripken, and because he was retiring, some felt he should get the start. I know it is a little different than Clemens, but there are parallels.

I'd like to see the Manager's be given the OPPORTUNITY to make an additional selection based on situations like this. Players like Cal Ripken (consecutive games streak), Roger Clemens (SIX Cy Youngs), Barry Bonds (73 homers in a season) who have been around the league for a long time and have made a significant contribution to baseball should be given a special invite. Obviously it wouldn't be for someone like Dontrelle Willis or Brady Anderson, but would be reserved for DEFINITE hall of famers who through their accomplishments have establised themselves as elite.

Just a thought.

tucker342 · 07-14-2003, 06:01 PM

lame!

If they really want the game to be taken seriously, than why does one player from each team have to be on the all star team?

Travis · 07-14-2003, 06:24 PM

But you are all forgetting, this year it means something!

Really, it does!

07-14-2003, 03:00 PM	#4
MylesKnight College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida	Who was it that said when the Rosters were first announced that MLB would figure out a way to get Dontrelle Willis and Roger Clemens in the game? MLB never ceases to amaze me... __________________ IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BLACK & GOLD!!

07-14-2003, 03:02 PM	#5
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Bud Selig is a joke. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

07-14-2003, 03:15 PM	#6
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	I think LionKing pretty well covered my reaction to this story. Last year they waited until the end of the game to make a mess of things, this year it looks like they wanted to avoid waiting until the last minute. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

07-14-2003, 05:23 PM	#15
henry296 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Some newer stories reference that the Ken Macha, Billy Beane and Rick Peterson the Mananger, GM and Pitching coach of the Oakland A's made the decision. I know everyone loves a good conspiracy. Todd __________________ "It's a great day for hockey" - "Badger" Bob Johnson

07-14-2003, 05:38 PM	#16
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	I haven't given it a lot of thought, but I'd like to see the Manager's given the option of making a special selection. A few years ago there was a controversy involving Cal Ripken. I can't remember the details, but basically he was having an average year, but because he was Cal Ripken, and because he was retiring, some felt he should get the start. I know it is a little different than Clemens, but there are parallels. I'd like to see the Manager's be given the OPPORTUNITY to make an additional selection based on situations like this. Players like Cal Ripken (consecutive games streak), Roger Clemens (SIX Cy Youngs), Barry Bonds (73 homers in a season) who have been around the league for a long time and have made a significant contribution to baseball should be given a special invite. Obviously it wouldn't be for someone like Dontrelle Willis or Brady Anderson, but would be reserved for DEFINITE hall of famers who through their accomplishments have establised themselves as elite. Just a thought. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

07-14-2003, 02:55 PM	#2
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Sounds like Zito got screwed. Chalk up one more reason to hate Roger Clemons.

07-14-2003, 03:00 PM	#3
TLK Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Allen Park, MI	The game hasn't even been played and already they've messed it up.....

07-14-2003, 03:24 PM	#7
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	How anybody can stand major league baseball after all the stupid shit it pulls time and time again is beyond me.

07-14-2003, 04:47 PM	#11
Fonzie Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Illinois	I'm certainly in agreement with the above-described sentiments about Bud Selig being a joke and MLB pulling a bunch of stupid moves, but I'm not sure that Zito's removal is such a bad idea. Especially if you look at it from the A's, Mike Scoscia's, and MLB's points-of-view. MLB wanted the All-star game to "matter", so they deemed the winning league the host of the World Series. Fine. That means that the managers and players have should be a bit more invested in winning. Great. If you were Mike Scoscia, wouldn't you want a full-complement of usable pitchers to achieve this task? Especially if the game goes into extra innings, like last year's debacle? Zito just pitched yesterday - he'd clearly be unavailable on Tuesday, unless Scoscia wanted to risk hurting Zito's golden left arm. And do you think Scoscia or the A's would be happy with that outcome? And would MLB want to be blamed for getting a pitcher hurt, or even putting him in position to get hurt, 'cuz his manager needed him to win a suddenly "meaningful" game? The A's would be in a murderous rage if a division rival's managers got their ace hurt, and I'm sure neither Scoscia nor MLB want anything to do with that kind of controversy. That said, I think they should've talked to Zito about it first. And he should still be allowed to attend, certainly. So, Scoscia needs a replacement pitcher. One can certainly debate whether Clemens was the right choice here, but I'm inclined to be forgiving about his inclusion as there's a good chance he'll retire after this season. Why not let him play in the All-star game one last time? There might be more worthy pitchers out there, and I'd not have a problem with any of them being selected over Clemens, but I also am not horrified at the thought of Clemens being on the roster. Just my $.02. Carry on.

07-14-2003, 05:03 PM	#12
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	I believe Roger Clemens is the anti-christ.

07-14-2003, 05:05 PM	#13
IMetTrentGreen College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Austin, Texas	"Sandy Alderson, executive vice president of baseball operations in the commissioner's office" didn't he used to be oakland's gm?

07-14-2003, 05:22 PM	#14
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	Yes, he did.

07-14-2003, 06:01 PM	#17
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	lame! If they really want the game to be taken seriously, than why does one player from each team have to be on the all star team?

07-14-2003, 06:24 PM	#18
Travis Pro Rookie Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada eh	But you are all forgetting, this year it means something! Really, it does! __________________ "I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." - Rogers Hornsby

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