good time to hire spokepersons...

[FrogMan]

Sponsor spirit will reset with this week's weekly update.

Last season, that reset, combined with my relegation to level V meant a drop in contribution from my sponsors to the tune of a minus 8500 U$. This drop happened in the weekly update right before the first round of the cup, i.e. the weekly update that should happen tomorrow. I had 4 spokepersons on my staff at that moment. And yes, I have a spreadsheet to back all that up

I remember that after seeing my sponsor money drop from one week to the other, I went on the conferences and some people recommended to jump your number of spokepersons to 10 just before the first update of the new season, keep it at 10 for about 6 weeks and start firing one or so a week after that. Their reasoning was that you gain more money at the beginning and boosting your number of spokepersons to 10 would help fight the sponsor spirit drop from the reset.

Take it for what it's worth, but I have just hired 7 spokeperson, to bring my total from 3 to 10. I'll see after a week or two to see if it's still worth it...

FM

[MacroGuru]

Hey FrogMan,

I know I might be opening a can of worms, but what all do you have spreadsheets for?

Since this is my first "new" season. I would be interested in what others keep track of, and maybe doing it for myself as well.

[bbor]

He is the spreadsheet master...i heard his wife complain the other day that he has their sex life on spread sheet

[Easy Mac]

It must be a bunch of zeros.

[vex]

Yeah, I bumped up to 6 last night from 2.

[daedalus]

You ever heard of Ginsu Knives? It shops, it slices, it dices? Ya, Frogger does Ginsu Spreadsheets.

Oh, and good information. Mucho danke for sharing, Frogger.

[daedalus]

Okies, I know what vex meant for his post but it still amuses to no end to see the consecutive posts:

He is the spreadsheet master...i heard his wife complain the other day that he has their sex life on spread sheet

It must be a bunch of zeros.

Yeah, I bumped up to 6 last night from 2.

[Alf]

I use this spreadsheet mainly for money purposes. HAM does the player & matches stuff. (Although I do compute each opponent NSI). I also use it for training (bumps) & MOTS/PIC.

[Alf]

dola. I also think it is time to bump spokies to 10 (I personnaly did that too)

[MacroGuru]

Thanks Alf!

[FrogMan]

Dennis, I'm writing my reply and will also include my spreadsheet in there in a few minutes...

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by indoorsoccersim
Hey FrogMan,

I know I might be opening a can of worms, but what all do you have spreadsheets for?

Since this is my first "new" season. I would be interested in what others keep track of, and maybe doing it for myself as well.

Dennis, no can of worms, you just gave everybody (myself included) a good chance to laugh at my expense

Since Alf has already included his spreadsheet, I've decided to zip mine and attach it here too. Basically, I keep track of my team's finances, training, trainees buying/selling/profit, my game ratings/stars totals over time (on a team level). I also have a Roster sheet where I can see all of my player's current ratings (parsed from the a simple copy/paste from your "players" page on HT) and where I compute some sort of position value for all players. My computation are derived from the ABC of Tactics site. For all players development (skills changes and value changes over time) I use HAM.

Here's a quick rundown of the different useful tabs in the spreadsheet:

"db" is where all ability vocabulary is kept and also all coefficients use in computing player's position rating
"INSTRUCTIONS" includes what little documentation I have put together so far. It's not finished and some sheets might not be in there...
"sheet1" is just some results from me playing with MyBestTeam
"SALARIES" is where I store the player salaries. Has to be updated whenever I buy a player or at the beginning of the season.
"TRANSFER" is where I go to instantly evaluate talent from the transfer market compared to my other players on my team. See instructions.
"parser" is where you copy/paste you players list, as text, straight from Hattrick
"TEAM" is where you should see all your players and their position ratings. There's a bunch of hidden columns if you wanna have fun
"SPONSORS" is my sheet for analysis of how many spokepersons I should have on staff. My logic is always that my spokepersons I pay should be able to pay themsleves back before the end of the following season. For example, if I have 10 on staff, then between update #1 and update #2, they have to increase my sponsor income by at least 1071 U$ (which is 15000 divided by the number of updates remaining which is 14)
"FINANCES" is where I keep track of my week to week money movement... Columns written in grey are projections of what to expect in the future. This is where I can see how I took the hit in sponsors money before the first cup game last season.
"GAMES" is where I keep track of my games, sort of summary-style. Includes possession information, crowd, revenu, home crowd analysis for cup and league games played at home, ratings and stars for both my team and my opponent.
"RATINGSCALC" is the same kind of thing I use to compute every team's rating for the weekly rankings. Copy/paste your rankings in there,. straight from your game report...
"TRAINING" is for how many weeks a player has been trained. If you unhide the hidden rows, you'll see the players with "X" and "o" under certain weeks. A "X" is when the player played as inner midfield and a "o" is when a player played winger. It should take into account the quality of the coach, the age of the player and teh percentage of training. I'm not certain if the number of assistants formula is accurate or not...
"ARENA" is my arena upgrading scenario calculator. I also keep track of my number of supporters over time on that sheet, with a projection of how many I should have at the end of this season...
The last three sheets (two CHARTS and a "data") are my visual aids to see how my team ratings and stars totals are moving over time...

Anyway, zipped, it's 240k, but once unzipped, this tiny little spreadsheet comes to just under 1 Mb Yeah, I'm a geek

Have fun!

FM

[MacroGuru]

WOW!!!

Thank you!

[Poli]

You suck . I can't download this out here. You need to mail this little thing to me!

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by ardent enthusiast
You suck . I can't download this out here. You need to mail this little thing to me!

Done. Check your mail Ardent.

FM

[Poli]

I'll let you know if and when I get it. I don't have it yet, and I know you sent it a while ago. Tried like five times to get it here, but I got as far as 50k, and then dropped it. Dang it!

Did you get mine?

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by ardent enthusiast
Did you get mine?

Yeah, I got it. I'll look at it at some point today or tonight. I'm about to go offline, but I'll get back to you by email...

FM

[FrogMan]

quick update on the results of hiring a full staff of 10 spokepersons for that first update of the season.

First, sponsors mood was briefly reset to calm, but that lasted only until the economic update happened. When the economic updates were done, the sponsors mood was already at satisfied. I liked that.

Second, we lost only 300 U$ as the result of the mood reset. However, that may also be because we are now in IV instead of in V, and sponsor money might be better in IV than in V...

What kind of sponsor money decrease (or even increase) has everybody experienced in their most recent economic update?

I'm trying to see if my decision to hire 7 more spokepersons was justified. Please post your number of spokepersons last week, the money you got then, and your number of spokepersons this week and the money you got this week...

Thanks in advance.

FM

[FrogMan]

dola,

my answer to the question would be:

Last week - 3 spokepersons, 43950 U$
This week - 10 spokepersons, 43650 U$

FM

[Desnudo]

Last Week - 5 spokes - HOL - $38,250
This Week - 5 spokes - Sats - $31,950

Edit: D V both times

[McSweeny]

Last Week - 4 spokes - HOL -$41,100

This Week - 10 spokes - sats - $35,400

DV both times

[AccardoOutfit29]

Last Week - 3 spokepersons, $42,300
This Week - 10 spokepersons, $38,250

DV both times.

[NAIWF]

Last week - 4SP @ HOL for $ 41,100
This week - 10 SP @ satisfied (?) for $35,400

Looks like McSweeney and I had the same update.

[Alf]

Last week - 2SP @ delirious for 48750 (D IV)
This week - 10SP @ calm for 47400 (D III)

Waiting for next week update to see the benefits

[Alf]

bump - after the first economic update

Week 1 of season 20 - 10SP @ delirious for 57900 !!!! up 10500 from last week. Definitely a great news

[Nyarlahotep]

Not really great news Alf. The extra SPs cost you 12k and you made an extra 10.5k (and they didn't even make all of the 10.5k).

[Alf]

Nyar : I know, but the sponsor money will surely again go up next week, and starting week 6-7 I will fire one spokie per week down to 3-4. The sponsor money will still be high and cover the salaries. That's my theory !

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Alf
Nyar : I know, but the sponsor money will surely again go up next week, and starting week 6-7 I will fire one spokie per week down to 3-4. The sponsor money will still be high and cover the salaries. That's my theory !

Nyar, I'm with Alfie on this one. The way I see it, your spokepersons have to pay for themselves, but not necessarily right this week. As long as the increase stays there, they have X weeks to pay themselves back, where X is the number of weekly updates left between now and the end of this season, when the mood will be reset and the cycle starts over again...

Here's a table I have designed, based off Alf's table and other people's comments...

 on the weekly            SEASON 20
  update right
before the league                  number of spokespersons
 game of week…  upd.left    date        1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8     9    10increase
  aging Sunday      15    03-07-19 can't do anything since this is the first update of season      -600
       1            14    03-07-26   0.21  0.43  0.64  0.86  1.07  1.29  1.50  1.71  1.93  2.14
       2            13    03-08-02   0.23  0.46  0.69  0.92  1.15  1.38  1.62  1.85  2.08  2.31
       3            12    03-08-09   0.25  0.50  0.75  1.00  1.25  1.50  1.75  2.00  2.25  2.50
       4            11    03-08-16   0.27  0.55  0.82  1.09  1.36  1.64  1.91  2.18  2.45  2.73
       5            10    03-08-23   0.30  0.60  0.90  1.20  1.50  1.80  2.10  2.40  2.70  3.00
       6            9     03-08-30   0.33  0.67  1.00  1.33  1.67  2.00  2.33  2.67  3.00  3.33
       7            8     03-09-06   0.38  0.75  1.13  1.50  1.88  2.25  2.63  3.00  3.38  3.75
       8            7     03-09-13   0.43  0.86  1.29  1.71  2.14  2.57  3.00  3.43  3.86  4.29
       9            6     03-09-20   0.50  1.00  1.50  2.00  2.50  3.00  3.50  4.00  4.50  5.00
       10           5     03-09-27   0.60  1.20  1.80  2.40  3.00  3.60  4.20  4.80  5.40  6.00
       11           4     03-10-04   0.75  1.50  2.25  3.00  3.75  4.50  5.25  6.00  6.75  7.50
       12           3     03-10-11   1.00  2.00  3.00  4.00  5.00  6.00  7.00  8.00  9.00 10.00
       13           2     03-10-18   1.50  3.00  4.50  6.00  7.50  9.00 10.50 12.00 13.50 15.00
       14           1     03-10-25   3.00  6.00  9.00 12.00 15.00 18.00 21.00 24.00 27.00 30.00
  qual Sunday       0     03-11-01 can't do anything since this is the last update of the season

The first column represents the number of the week in which the update occurs, presented in term of which league game will be played the day after the update occurs. For example, this week is the update of week 1, since the week 1 game will be played tomorrow.

This table is all in C$ so divide by two to have the figures in U$. The figures in the different columns represent by how much your sponsor money (in thousands of C$) should increase for the spokepersons to pay for themselves before the end of the season. So the table represent the increase needed, given a certain week (thus a certain number of updates to pay back) and a certain number of spokepersons on staff.

See on the week 1 line, under the 10 spokies columns, it says you should increase by at least 2140 C$ (or 1070 U$) for it to be worth it to have 10 spokies. This value is derived from 30000 C$ (cost of 10 spokepersons) divided by the number of updates remaining (14 in the case of week 1). This means that if an increase of 2140 is maintained over the next 14 weeks, I will have gained back 2140*14 = 29960 C$... This reasoning may be flawed, but it was simple enough to implement to be worth it try.

As for Alf, lets say he keeps on increasing , even only 2000 this week, his 10500 is still there and should stay there at least until the beginning of next season... This is the way to being breakeven over a two week period...

FM

[Nyarlahotep]

I have no doubt that over the course of the season they will more than pay for themselves. I was just pointing out that losing money isn't great news. In fact, one site (I forget which) has a table that shows you when you should start to fire Sps to maximize your profit over the course of a season.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Nyarlahotep
I have no doubt that over the course of the season they will more than pay for themselves. I was just pointing out that losing money isn't great news. In fact, one site (I forget which) has a table that shows you when you should start to fire Sps to maximize your profit over the course of a season.

The table I got here is basically my version of the table presented at Hattrick Gameday. It should tell you when to fire spokepersons. Say if you there is 5 updates left and you still have your 10 spokepersons, they should bring in an increase of at least 6000 C$ (3000 U$) to be worth it. If not, then you should fire one (or more)...

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Alf
bump - after the first economic update

Week 1 of season 20 - 10SP @ delirious for 57900 !!!! up 10500 from last week. Definitely a great news

I never commented directly to that update, although I got into a long presentation of my studies

Alf, I think this is great news! If I get that kind of update tonight, I'll be ecstatic to say the least. I'll keep you posted about how mine went...

FM

[Alf]

The table I used in my XL file game from Hattrick Gameday but seems outdated now. Frogman's approach makes more sense !

[FrogMan]

Here's how my update looked this week.

Week 0:    43 650
Week 1:    50 700     increase:  7 050

This is my very best increase ever. Before that, my sponsor money had never increased by more than 3300 in a weekly update. It's a little less han Alf, but that would have to be expected since he's in III and I'm still in IV.

This also means that since I expect this 7050 to stay, the 10 spokepersons I had on staff, even though they made me lose money this week, will have increased my revenu stream of 98 700 over the next 14 weeks of this season, while costing me 15 000 this week...

I will keep updating this thread as the season goes along.

FM

[daedalus]

Figure I'd chime in, even if a bit late, since I'm finally daring enough to peek at my Economy page.

My sponsor money went from 57 000 last week to 66 900 this week along with their attitude going to delirious. I'd definitely say the extra 5-7 (I don't remember if I had 3 or 5 before) is worth it for my team. Even if I start to slowly 'downsize' my spokesperson department by 1 each week until they're back down to 5, I think I'd still come out ahead.

By the way . . . thanks for the reminder, Frogger. I would've forgotten, even though I'd fully intended to do this. Heh.

[FrogMan]

Here's how my update looked this week...

Week 0:    43 650
Week 1:    50 700     increase:  7 050
Week 2:    55 650     increase:  4 950

Following the same demonstration I made last week, this means that, assuming this 4950 increase stays on for the last 13 updates to happen this season, my 10 spokepersons on staff this week have brought an extra 64 350, while costing me 15 000. They all will keep their job one more week

For thos of you comparing with the table presented previously, remember that the figures in the table are in canadian dollars. What I presented in this post is in US dollars.

FM

[Alf]

10 spokies. 2 loss (in cup & league) and still increases in money.

Week 0:    47 400
Week 1:    57 900     increase:  10 500
Week 2:    64 950     increase:   7 050

Like FrogMan. The 10 spokies still stay. Money is Euro which is equiv to $US

[Alf]

10 spokies.

Week 0:    47 400
Week 1:    57 900     increase:  10 500
Week 2:    64 950     increase:   7 050
Week 3:    68 850     increase:   3 900

Week 3 : sponsors are high on life

[FrogMan]

With the economic update finally done, here's how my sponsors money looks. Still 10 spokpersons on staff, sponsors are high on life.

Week 0:    43 650
Week 1:    50 700     increase:  7 050
Week 2:    55 650     increase:  4 950
Week 3:    58 350     increase:  2 700

Same analysis can be done. Assuming that 2700 increase remains for the rest of the season, my 10 spokepersons have increased my season revenues of 32400 which is better than the 15000 they cost me this week. We're getting closer and closer to the point where I'll have to fire one of them, but for now they all keep their job for one more week

FM

[thealmighty]

Thanks for the continuing update, cuz I would never remember to check on firing one on my own. You're a champ, FrogMan.

[Nyarlahotep]

I'm interested in seeing how this goes. I hired my extras up to 10 when the season started, but haven't really tracked the increases. I seem to remember losing some sponsor money when I fired some last year, so seeing that they aren't even paying their own wages after week 3 for FM's team is a little disheartening.

[FrogMan]

see this as my and Alf's special spokie experiment Other than the beginning of the season, I have never seen a loss in sponsor money, not even when I dropped my number of spokepersons from 4 to 2 between the 3rd and 4th economic update, although it did drop the increase from 2700C$ to 900C$...

Remember that my theory is all based on the fact that an increase in a given week is there to stay until the beginning of next season... Will se how it goes...

FM

[Nyarlahotep]

I'm about 99% sure that when I fired spokesmen last year while trying to avoid bankruptcy that my sponsor revenue actually dropped after I did.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Nyarlahotep
I'm about 99% sure that when I fired spokesmen last year while trying to avoid bankruptcy that my sponsor revenue actually dropped after I did.

Maybe I will see a drop this season, but I track these thing in a spreadsheet (what else ) and I didn't get a drop. We'll see as the season goes on. Maybe I'll see a drop when I'll fire one, and then I'll say: "Damn, the flower salesman was right " I just want to try and keep this going for at least this season. One thing is pretty clear in my head, I don't want to fire more than one, maybe two, per week...

FM

[Nyarlahotep]

I'm just going to follow your lead this season and actually track how mine do next season.

[Alf]

10 spokies. They stay, close to the limit though

Week 0:    47 400
Week 1:    57 900     increase:  10 500
Week 2:    64 950     increase:   7 050
Week 3:    68 850     increase:   3 900
Week 4:    72 150     increase:   3 300

Week 4 : sponsors are high on life

[daedalus]

Originally posted by Alf
10 spokies. They stay, close to the limit though

Sorry, but what are you looking for as far as when to start downsizing?

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by daedalus
Sorry, but what are you looking for as far as when to start downsizing?

Look at the table presented above (except it is in Canadian dollars ). Alf and I are following the same theory that your spokepersons need to pay for themselves before the end of the season.

For example, following the table, for the week 4 update, if you have 10 spokepersons, they should bring in an increase of at least 2730 C$ (or 1365 U$) or else you should fire some of them. I think Alf got mixed up with the table because he's not really all that close to the limit.

My calculation for his team, to explain the theory, is all based on the fact that I think this increase will stick until the end of the season. So, 3300 increase with 11 weeks left means his spokepersons brought in an extra 36300 while costing 15000. So they are all still worth it. The 1365 figure from the table is 15000/11 by the way...

I'll post my figures later on tonight.

FM
edit: typos

[daedalus]

Originally posted by FrogMan
Look at the table presented above (except it is in Canadian dollars ). Alf and I are following the same theory that your spokepersons need to pay for themselves before the end of the season.

I . . . did. Table hard. Brain too small.

For example, following the table, for the week 4 update, if you have 10 spokepersons, they should bring in an increase of at least 2730 C$ (or 1365 U$) or else you should fire some of them. I think Alf got mixed up with the table because he's not really all that close to the limit.

Oh. I think I sort of follow now. The table, at least. The theory is still WAY over my head.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by daedalus
I . . . did. Table hard. Brain too small.

...

Oh. I think I sort of follow now. The table, at least. The theory is still WAY over my head.

He, he... See this excel thing can be useful sometimes. I'll repost and explain the table a little better, this time with figures in U$.

Here's the table again:

 on the weekly          
  update right
before the league                  number of spokespersons
 game of week…  updates le  date        1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8     9    10
  aging Sunday      15    03-07-19 can't do anything since this is the first update of season
       1            14    03-07-26    107   214   321   429   536   643   750   857   964  1071
       2            13    03-08-02    115   231   346   462   577   692   808   923  1038  1154
       3            12    03-08-09    125   250   375   500   625   750   875  1000  1125  1250
       4            11    03-08-16    136   273   409   545   682   818   955  1091  1227  1364
       5            10    03-08-23    150   300   450   600   750   900  1050  1200  1350  1500
       6            9     03-08-30    167   333   500   667   833  1000  1167  1333  1500  1667
       7            8     03-09-06    188   375   563   750   938  1125  1313  1500  1688  1875
       8            7     03-09-13    214   429   643   857  1071  1286  1500  1714  1929  2143
       9            6     03-09-20    250   500   750  1000  1250  1500  1750  2000  2250  2500
       10           5     03-09-27    300   600   900  1200  1500  1800  2100  2400  2700  3000
       11           4     03-10-04    375   750  1125  1500  1875  2250  2625  3000  3375  3750
       12           3     03-10-11    500  1000  1500  2000  2500  3000  3500  4000  4500  5000
       13           2     03-10-18    750  1500  2250  3000  3750  4500  5250  6000  6750  7500
       14           1     03-10-25   1500  3000  4500  6000  7500  9000 10500 12000 13500 15000
  qual Sunday       0     03-11-01 can't do anything since this is the last update of the season

The first column represents the week of the update you wanna check. The title says "on the weekly update right before the league game of week…". The first update is teh one where we usually see our sponsor money take a dip and I called it "aging Sunday". After that, you see week numbers. The second column is the number of updates left in the season and the third column is the date of the update. The next ten columns represent by how much your sponsor money should increase, depending on how many spokepersons you have on staff. For example, take Alf's update for week 4, knowing he has 10 spokepersons on staff, you go to the line for week 4 and column 10, and you find 1364. This means that his sponsor money has to increase by at least 1364 U$ for his 10 spokepersons to be worth they salary. He got an increase of 3300, so he's fine. Had he got an increase of less than 1364, following the table and my theory, he should have fired one or more spokepersons.

It's only a theory, but it's the rule I gave myself to see when it would be necessary to fire spokepersons...

FM

[FrogMan]

Okey, week 4 update is done. 10 spokepersons on staff, sponsors are dancing in the streets, WOOHOO!!!

Here's how it's shaping up.

Week 0:    43 650
Week 1:    50 700     increase:  7 050
Week 2:    55 650     increase:  4 950
Week 3:    58 350     increase:  2 700
Week 4:    60 300     increase:  1 950

I'm getting really close to that "fire 'em" threshold. Will probably not make it next week if I keep all of them on staff, but I'll keep all 10 for one more week (as we hear applause and shouts in the staff office of the Pittbulls ).

The limit is 1500 next week (week 5 with 10 spokepersons).

FM