Another "Pretty Big" NBA Deal...

MylesKnight · 07-25-2003, 09:42 AM

Sacramento, San Antonio and Indiana in on the action this time...

The Kings get Brad Miller from the Pacers,

Indiana gets Scot Pollard from Sacramento and Danny Ferry from the Spurs,

and the Spurs get Hedo Turkoglu from the Kings and Ron Mercer from Indiana.

The Spurs also have signed Robert Horry.

From the looks of it, the Kings got themselves a Center to replace Vlade Divac who is getting up there in years, the Spurs picked up some pretty decent talent without giving up much (Danny Ferry) and Indiana obviously picked up some cap space in their attempt to check out the Free Agent Market and resign old man Reggie Miller.

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Easy Mac · 07-25-2003, 09:53 AM

I see Indiana likes the tall, skill-less white guys. They traded Brad Miller and Ron Mercer for these guys?

And the Spurs got a deal. Turk and Mercer for Ferry. Wow.

mrsimperless · 07-25-2003, 09:56 AM

Yes, that was a HORRIBLE trade for the pacers. They would have been much better off just letting Brad sign somewhere else and using the money to sign a PG. Now we have a crappy center with another bloated contract (something like 3 years left and it's in the 30's!! :O) AND we have no PG. This fixation on Reggie Miller and destroying the team just to resign him is ridiculous. He was a great player in his time, but that time is quickly drawing to a close.

kurtism · 07-25-2003, 09:58 AM

FYI, Ferry's contract is not guaranteed - he'll be traded or released before the season starts. Mercer was buried on the Pacers bench, and makes approximately $6M. The team was thrilled to move him. As for Pollard, the prevailing sentiment coming from the Pacers camp is that they got something for nothing (as Miller likely would have signed with Utah/Denver), plus cap space.

QuikSand · 07-25-2003, 10:07 AM

Just my usual NBA offseason comment here.

I always find it weird that in the NBA you can never evaluate the effect of a trade by simply evaluating the caliber of the players involved. The value of a trade seems to always lie in the contracts involved -- we so frequently see teams making seemingly desperate moves, just to "unload" a player who is ridiculously overpaid.

From my viewpoint (not an NBA fan, but a student of markets) it just seems like this marketplace ought to settle down - and you'd see a lot fewer multi-year guaranteed contracts for marginal players. But this year again, it seems like the players have more bargaining power than you's imagine - and many of these mediocre players do seem to be getting fat deals that will, in a few years, potentially become huge baggage for the teams involved.

And again, I reach the same conclusion I always do - the NFL basically has it right. Top players and prospects get significant signing bonuses guaranteed, but salaries themselves are some combination of non-guaranteed money for future years and performance incentives. As it should be - you'll get paid, but you have to keep earning it.

Daimyo · 07-25-2003, 10:07 AM

All year Donnie said he had a plan to resign the big three and all season I believed him. If he wasn't the best GM in the NBA I'd be pretty upset about this, but as it is I give him the benefit of the doubt that something good will come of this.

Still I can't believe that given the choice of keeping two of the big three he basically chose O'Neal/Reggie over O'Neal/Brad Miller. As much as Reggie meant to this franchise over the years, you just can't make decisions like that...

MylesKnight · 07-25-2003, 10:08 AM

How much does Reggie Miller want anyway? Is he a Free Agent right now?

kurtism · 07-25-2003, 10:11 AM

Miller is a FA - last rumor I heard was an offer around $6M... I sincerely hope Reggie takes a bit less, for the team's sake

Daimyo · 07-25-2003, 10:11 AM

He's a free agent now. I think they basically have no idea how to value him... He made $10M last year and I think the assumption is that it'll take $5M (give or take $1M) to sign him this season. I wonder if he'll want more now that the Pacers have more than $5M extra cap space...

Nearly all of his value is sentimental though... I can't imagine any other team would touch him anywhere near that price.

MylesKnight · 07-25-2003, 10:15 AM

Am I the only one who is a tad bit surprised to not see the Lakers going after Reggie Miller? I mean how can you call yourselves a 1990's All-Star Team without Reggie at Shooting Guard?

Maybe L.A. really is only going after Western Conference All-Stars from that time, as was mentioned previously.

The_herd · 07-25-2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Just my usual NBA offseason comment here.

I always find it weird that in the NBA you can never evaluate the effect of a trade by simply evaluating the caliber of the players involved. The value of a trade seems to always lie in the contracts involved -- we so frequently see teams making seemingly desperate moves, just to "unload" a player who is ridiculously overpaid.

From my viewpoint (not an NBA fan, but a student of markets) it just seems like this marketplace ought to settle down - and you'd see a lot fewer multi-year guaranteed contracts for marginal players. But this year again, it seems like the players have more bargaining power than you's imagine - and many of these mediocre players do seem to be getting fat deals that will, in a few years, potentially become huge baggage for the teams involved.

And again, I reach the same conclusion I always do - the NFL basically has it right. Top players and prospects get significant signing bonuses guaranteed, but salaries themselves are some combination of non-guaranteed money for future years and performance incentives. As it should be - you'll get paid, but you have to keep earning it.

These multi-year guaranteed contracts for marginal players almost always got to either a guy with size and maybe 1 skill that is above average (Jim McIllvaine, Marc Jackson, Ike Austin) or a guy coming off a good playoff run (Tyrone Lue).

I can almost overlook the size thing, its the same in football with size or speed and kinda the same with left-handed pitchers in baseball, anyone with size is and the slightest bit of "potential" is gonna be overpayed out of fear of losing out on him.

However, I really don't understand how guys who get hot in the postseason get payed based on that stretch. At least in baseball and football teams are getting better at spending their money. In basketball the max salary rule might actually be working against the system. Some teams seem to be a little too willing to spend big money on a player. To give you a good example, Elton Brand. I love this guy as a player, but realistically, his numbers and what he's actually done don't really warrant a "max" contract in my opinion. The Clippers however were put in a situation where they were forced to pay the big money because the Heat had the cash to spend. A lot of good, but not great players seem to expect the big money, but the "max" deals really should be for the players who REALLY make a difference, i.e. Kobe, Iverson, McGrady, Shaq, Kidd. The guys even the casual fan recognize by only part of their name.

So, I guess what I'm saying is I agree, football seems to have the best market, and what is amazing is baseball might actually be getting there if they have a couple more offseasons like this past one.

mrsimperless · 07-25-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kurtism
FYI, Ferry's contract is not guaranteed - he'll be traded or released before the season starts. Mercer was buried on the Pacers bench, and makes approximately $6M. The team was thrilled to move him. As for Pollard, the prevailing sentiment coming from the Pacers camp is that they got something for nothing (as Miller likely would have signed with Utah/Denver), plus cap space.

I dont think I can agree with the team being thrilled to unload Mercer. He was our backup shooting guard and did a fair job at it more often than not. On top of that he was still yound and had potential. Who is gonna back up Reggie now? Bender?

I guess I am still bitter about Donnie passing over Kareem Rush last year to draft Fred Jones. Donnie is a great GM, but he needs help in the draft IMO. Hopefully Larry Legend will be better in this regard. I guess I'm tired of all of the practice phenoms the Pacers have been drafting. All I hear about is how great a guy is in practice. Then they are never able to exhibit that same ability during games.

Franklinnoble · 07-25-2003, 12:20 PM

I'm disappointed to see Hedo leave Sacramento, but I'm hoping Miller gives the Kings a little more toughness up front. I know he's not afraid to bang with Shaq (I recall he provoked Shaq to take a swing at him in one game), and, honestly, the Kings need a little more toughness. Vlade is a great passing center, and helps move the ball around, but he's not the kind of muscle you need in the middle out west.

I think at this point the Spurs are the team to beat.

cincyreds · 07-25-2003, 02:36 PM

Indiana got Pollard and Ferry??? What a joke of a trade on their end.

I bet the other owners were laughing when Indiana agreed, I bet they were saying to themselves, "Idiots".

I bet Pollard and Ferry get cut or traded.

We'll see.

QuikSand · 07-25-2003, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cincyreds
Indiana got Pollard and Ferry??? What a joke of a trade on their end.

I think you're making the mistake of judging the trade only based on the quality of the players. It's the contracts that matter - and I suspect getting these players intending to cut at least one of them is exactly what they wanted here. They shed contract baggage in the process - classic NBA "addition by subtraction."

Alf · 07-25-2003, 03:37 PM

Another reason to support the Spurs as they add another European a also Ron Mercer. And they got that for Danny Ferry... Did he play at all last season ?

Franklinnoble · 07-25-2003, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cincyreds
Indiana got Pollard and Ferry??? What a joke of a trade on their end.

I bet the other owners were laughing when Indiana agreed, I bet they were saying to themselves, "Idiots".

I bet Pollard and Ferry get cut or traded.

We'll see.

It's a better deal for Indiana than it would have been to just let Miller go via free agency with no compensation whatsoever.

Swaggs · 07-25-2003, 03:49 PM

The big news here is that Danny Ferry is still in the NBA. Holy crap!

MylesKnight · 07-25-2003, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swaggs
The big news here is that Danny Ferry is still in the NBA. Holy crap!

Looks like the Duke/NBA Curse hasn't hit Mr. Ferry yet.. Although, he is a former #1 Pick in the NBA Draft. I think the term "Bust" would apply here..

IMetTrentGreen · 07-26-2003, 09:31 PM

the spurs just got tired of only ass-raping the lakers. they wanted to take two teams at once, and succeeded

popovich should go into the gm hall of fame for this. he is certainly the best in the game right now

07-25-2003, 09:56 AM	#3
mrsimperless College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2003	Yes, that was a HORRIBLE trade for the pacers. They would have been much better off just letting Brad sign somewhere else and using the money to sign a PG. Now we have a crappy center with another bloated contract (something like 3 years left and it's in the 30's!! :O) AND we have no PG. This fixation on Reggie Miller and destroying the team just to resign him is ridiculous. He was a great player in his time, but that time is quickly drawing to a close. __________________ "All I know is that smart women are hot. Susan Polgar beat me in 24 moves in a simultaneous exhbition. I slept with the scoresheet under my pillow." Off some dude's web site.

07-25-2003, 10:08 AM	#7
MylesKnight College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida	How much does Reggie Miller want anyway? Is he a Free Agent right now? __________________ IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BLACK & GOLD!!

07-25-2003, 10:11 AM	#9
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	He's a free agent now. I think they basically have no idea how to value him... He made $10M last year and I think the assumption is that it'll take $5M (give or take $1M) to sign him this season. I wonder if he'll want more now that the Pacers have more than $5M extra cap space... Nearly all of his value is sentimental though... I can't imagine any other team would touch him anywhere near that price. Last edited by Daimyo : 07-25-2003 at 10:13 AM.

07-25-2003, 10:15 AM	#10
MylesKnight College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida	Am I the only one who is a tad bit surprised to not see the Lakers going after Reggie Miller? I mean how can you call yourselves a 1990's All-Star Team without Reggie at Shooting Guard? Maybe L.A. really is only going after Western Conference All-Stars from that time, as was mentioned previously. __________________ IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BLACK & GOLD!!

07-25-2003, 02:36 PM	#14
cincyreds High School Varsity Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mississippi	Indiana got Pollard and Ferry??? What a joke of a trade on their end. I bet the other owners were laughing when Indiana agreed, I bet they were saying to themselves, "Idiots". I bet Pollard and Ferry get cut or traded. We'll see. __________________ The Dallas Cowboys!! America's Team will rise again.

07-25-2003, 09:53 AM	#2
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	I see Indiana likes the tall, skill-less white guys. They traded Brad Miller and Ron Mercer for these guys? And the Spurs got a deal. Turk and Mercer for Ferry. Wow.

07-25-2003, 09:58 AM	#4
kurtism High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Noblesville	FYI, Ferry's contract is not guaranteed - he'll be traded or released before the season starts. Mercer was buried on the Pacers bench, and makes approximately $6M. The team was thrilled to move him. As for Pollard, the prevailing sentiment coming from the Pacers camp is that they got something for nothing (as Miller likely would have signed with Utah/Denver), plus cap space.

07-25-2003, 10:07 AM	#5
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Just my usual NBA offseason comment here. I always find it weird that in the NBA you can never evaluate the effect of a trade by simply evaluating the caliber of the players involved. The value of a trade seems to always lie in the contracts involved -- we so frequently see teams making seemingly desperate moves, just to "unload" a player who is ridiculously overpaid. From my viewpoint (not an NBA fan, but a student of markets) it just seems like this marketplace ought to settle down - and you'd see a lot fewer multi-year guaranteed contracts for marginal players. But this year again, it seems like the players have more bargaining power than you's imagine - and many of these mediocre players do seem to be getting fat deals that will, in a few years, potentially become huge baggage for the teams involved. And again, I reach the same conclusion I always do - the NFL basically has it right. Top players and prospects get significant signing bonuses guaranteed, but salaries themselves are some combination of non-guaranteed money for future years and performance incentives. As it should be - you'll get paid, but you have to keep earning it.

07-25-2003, 12:20 PM	#13
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	I'm disappointed to see Hedo leave Sacramento, but I'm hoping Miller gives the Kings a little more toughness up front. I know he's not afraid to bang with Shaq (I recall he provoked Shaq to take a swing at him in one game), and, honestly, the Kings need a little more toughness. Vlade is a great passing center, and helps move the ball around, but he's not the kind of muscle you need in the middle out west. I think at this point the Spurs are the team to beat.

07-25-2003, 03:37 PM	#16
Alf Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Rennes, France	Another reason to support the Spurs as they add another European a also Ron Mercer. And they got that for Danny Ferry... Did he play at all last season ? __________________ FOFL - GML - IHOF - FranceStats

07-25-2003, 03:49 PM	#18
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	The big news here is that Danny Ferry is still in the NBA. Holy crap! __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

07-26-2003, 09:31 PM	#20
IMetTrentGreen College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Austin, Texas	the spurs just got tired of only ass-raping the lakers. they wanted to take two teams at once, and succeeded popovich should go into the gm hall of fame for this. he is certainly the best in the game right now

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