Paypal/Ebay screw

[Raiders Army]

Okay. I got screwed by an ebayer. Number one, I'm a dumbass (what do you expect from a Raiders fan?). The person who won my auction on ebay is from Bogota Columbia. She wanted it shipped USPS ($37) as opposed to FEDEX or UPS (~$237). After receiving payment from her via Paypal, I immediately posted positive feedback and shipped the laptop to her. Unfortunately, the Post Office does not insure, nor does it provide a tracking number for a package outside of the country.

This is where I'm a dumbass. She used one email address to talk to me, another to win the auction, and yet another to pay for the laptop. I should've expected something, but hey, you gotta trust other people right? Yesterday I received a message from Paypal saying that the owner of the credit card who paid is claiming it was fraudulent. Now, if I were him, I'd want my money back also, so I see where he's coming from. Unfortunately for me, unless I can provide a tracking number, Paypal won't cover me (as outlined in their insane rules). I figured hey, money in, money mine. So now I'm out $1,000 and a laptop.

By the way, the ebay name is sunnyinc.

Has anyone else gotten screwed on ebay or Paypal?

[Draft Dodger]

ouch.

that's rough. sorry to hear about it.

[thesloppy]

Raiders Army, I need your help transferring millions of dollars out of Nigeria, please email me immediately!

[Draft Dodger]

"Unfortunately, the Post Office does not insure, nor does it provide a tracking number for a package outside of the country."

been thinking about this. are you SURE this is the case?
I was under the impression that you could get a tracking number, but not for 30 days.

[MikeVic]

One of my friends sent $100 for an mp3 player, but never got the mp3 player... is now out $100 and an mp3 player

[Raiders Army]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
I was under the impression that you could get a tracking number, but not for 30 days.

I think the post office does it, except for two countries...Columbia being one of them.

[Swaggs]

RA, I would check with your homeowners' insurance and consider filing a claim.

Without going into details, I once handled a similar claim where a gentleman shipped about $6,000 in stereo equipment and did not receive his payment. We ended up paying for the loss, because it was, more or less, a theft.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by thesloppy
Raiders Army, I need your help transferring millions of dollars out of Nigeria, please email me immediately!

I just got my first Nigerian email last night. I was so excited!

[Mustang]

I've personally done about 200 transactions on Ebay, My fiance has done about 150 and one of my friends has done about 300. (Ok.. none of us have lives but.. that isn't the point.) I've only been screwed once on Ebay and that was for $8. Everything else I've paid through via credit card or have only sold within the United States. I've even purchase from Canada, UK, Netherlands, Greece and Germany. Just have to be careful a bit who you buy from... Unfortunately, Ebay is lax in helping anyone out so, it is best to protect yourself.

[Bonegavel]

Ebay should change its name to Caveat Emptorbay.

I would never sell/purchase from outside the 48 contigs. I would only buy from somebody that had mondo feedback (that is far from a guarantee, but better than nothing).

I would be hard-pressed to sell an expensive item on goodluckbay (i've done it for work). My rule is to only put stuff on there that I was going to either give away or toss out. That way, if you get screwed, it isn't a big deal. But, i'm chicken. I know others that constantly sell stuff ranging from $5 to a few thousand. Taking risks is, well, risky.

[mrskippy]

I pretty much insist on people paying for the best possible shipping. And if they request otherwise make them say so in an e-mail. I keep that e-mail as evidence. Never had too many problems.


Odd the USPS won't provide tracking for international. I thought they did. But that might be for shipments to places like Canada, the UK, Australia, and other places with modern postal systems.

Sorry to hear you got screwed. Hopefully you can fight it and get your money back. I'd fight with PayPal about. They're supposed to have a seller protection prorgram, but I've heard they don't always live up to that.

[mrskippy]

Originally posted by BoneGavel
Ebay should change its name to Caveat Emptorbay.

I would never sell/purchase from outside the 48 contigs. I would only buy from somebody that had mondo feedback (that is far from a guarantee, but better than nothing).

I would be hard-pressed to sell an expensive item on goodluckbay (i've done it for work). My rule is to only put stuff on there that I was going to either give away or toss out. That way, if you get screwed, it isn't a big deal. But, i'm chicken. I know others that constantly sell stuff ranging from $5 to a few thousand. Taking risks is, well, risky.

I'll ship anywhere in the world for the most part. The catch is that I usually want them to pay for the more expensive shipping, with tracking and insurance. That usually keeps the crooks away and lets me deal with honest people from other parts of the world.

I've also purchased from foreign sellers and usually had as much luck with them as domestic. Oh and you say 48 contigs. I've also had as much luck with Hawaii and Alaska sellers as people in my own state.

As a buyer, the thing is to always pay for tracking, insurance, and get PayPal's buyer protection when in doubt. As a seller, it's best to be strict on how you do business.

Rule of thumb -- always cover your ass. This is especially true on big ticket items.

A $10 coin, a $5 baseball card, or a $20 PS2 game ... no biggie. When it's a $100 coin, $50 baseball card or a full price PS2 game, than it's time to act smart.

[Bonegavel]

Going to change your name to "mrsebay"?

Seriously, that is a good idea. I just represent the cautious minority and feel it is better to have never loved at all then to have loved and lost. Unfortunately, marriage proves that you do lose when you love anyway, so that may be why I am a bit gun-shy.

[ note to wife for when I'm dead and she finds my id/password list in my drawer: Just kidding babe 8-/ ]

[Sharpieman]

That sucks man, but I don't feel as bad as I would for you since your a Raiders fan.

[cthomer5000]

I've probably been involved in 150 ebay transactions since it's incetpion (I got on the bandwagon early, and remember my first purchase). In 6 years, I've never had 1 problem.

I only sell within the 48 states, but I have bought twice from the U.K.

[ScottVib]

don't know what the USPS can do across country borders, but if it's inside the countries borders you can charge the person with mail fraud (which is the one benefit of shipping with the USPS).

[Raiders Army]

Scottvib,

Already tried mail fraud, but since she paid with Paypal, and not through the USPS, it is not.

Swaggs,

Thanks for the info. My wife's going to check it out with USAA today!

Again, I know that I was stupid about it, but as some of you have said, there are risks involved, and the higher the monetary value, the higher the risk. Regardless, however, it still hurts.

[FBPro]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
I just got my first Nigerian email last night. I was so excited!

I wished I'd only gotten one, stupid things somehow make it through spam blockers, etc.

[Runtheball]

Paypal definitely sucks. Good luck trying to get your money from them when you want to close your account! Being either polite or helpful to their customers simply is not a part of their business plan.

Ebay, however, is great. Yes, you gotta be a little careful about who you buy from or sell to, but I've never been screwed on a transaction there.

[QuikSand]

Those who lost out have my appropriate sympathies.

But...

Originally posted by Raiders Army
So now I'm out $1,000 and a laptop.

Originally posted by MikeVic
One of my friends sent $100 for an mp3 player, but never got the mp3 player... is now out $100 and an mp3 player

Aren't we engaging in some double-counting here?

[Karim]

I've bought and sold around 75 times. I've been burned once on buying and 3-5 times on selling. I don't use PayPal and that seems to piss off a lot of buyers, especially when they bid without reading all the terms and then actually win the item.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Mustang
Unfortunately, Ebay is lax in helping anyone out so, it is best to protect yourself.

Ebay is only bringing buyer and seller together. Why would you expect them to protect you? You are responsible for taking care of yourself. There are enough ways provided for you to judge the risk of a particular transaction, and if you provide enough evidence eBay will understand if you back out on a transaction and will not put a blackmark on your username.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Karim
I've bought and sold around 75 times. I've been burned once on buying and 3-5 times on selling. I don't use PayPal and that seems to piss off a lot of buyers, especially when they bid without reading all the terms and then actually win the item.

In my few dealings, I have stuck to auctions that accept PayPal, already have a shipping/handling price, and have significant feedback.

[Buccaneer]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Ebay is only bringing buyer and seller together. Why would you expect them to protect you? You are responsible for taking care of yourself. There are enough ways provided for you to judge the risk of a particular transaction, and if you provide enough evidence eBay will understand if you back out on a transaction and will not put a blackmark on your username.

"Why would you expect them to protect you?" The same ones who run to the federal govt and trial lawyers to help protect us from ourselves.

[Mustang]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Ebay is only bringing buyer and seller together. Why would you expect them to protect you? You are responsible for taking care of yourself. There are enough ways provided for you to judge the risk of a particular transaction, and if you provide enough evidence eBay will understand if you back out on a transaction and will not put a blackmark on your username.

You're joking right?

Yes, there is personal responsibility but, when Ebay is making money off people that run scams and then don't deliver, it is their responsibility to make sure those sellers are not allowed to sell on Ebay. If someone has 20 negative feedback out of 200 due to not shipping and Ebay has made money off those 20 non-delivered goods well.. that is a problem.

[RendeR]

The US Postal service will allow you to send anything certified mail, to almost anywhere in the world. This requires a signature for delivery which is then returned to you.

Not that this would help, since they are in Columbia, I'd love to see you try and get the authorities to actually do anything about the theft. This would however, give you ample information to file a homeowners insurance claim and get the funds back from your insurance as a theft.

you can probably still do this by printing out the verification numbers of the transactions. They are legal documents giving verified times and dates of actions taken. If you still have the reciept from the post office from mailing the package, you can verify that you mailed it as well.

Insurance should cover you.

[Karim]

Originally posted by Tekneek
In my few dealings, I have stuck to auctions that accept PayPal, already have a shipping/handling price, and have significant feedback.

I have no problems with discriminating buyers and I know I'm eliminating potential buyers with my terms, but they are listed in bold letters. If you don't like the conditions of the sale, don't bid (but inevitably someone always does).

[Abe Sargent]

Guy once took 2000 out of my checking account through paypal. No scams, no e-mails, no viruses, no going to funny websites, hadn't even used my PayPal for monthes, just $2k gone. PayPal never did tell me where. I closed done that account in seconds. Never opened a new one.

-Anxiety

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Mustang
Yes, there is personal responsibility but, when Ebay is making money off people that run scams and then don't deliver, it is their responsibility to make sure those sellers are not allowed to sell on Ebay. If someone has 20 negative feedback out of 200 due to not shipping and Ebay has made money off those 20 non-delivered goods well.. that is a problem.

Only an idiot tries to do business with someone that has that kind of feedback on record at eBay. Is it eBay's job to keep the stupid people from doing stupid things?

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Karim
I have no problems with discriminating buyers and I know I'm eliminating potential buyers with my terms, but they are listed in bold letters. If you don't like the conditions of the sale, don't bid (but inevitably someone always does).

I know. I agree with you. I was trying to say that I only participate in auctions that meet my desirable terms from the beginning. People should be held responsible for that. Of course, if someone won the auction and did not like the terms, wouldn't you just blast them with negative feedback and then re-list the item?

[Mustang]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Only an idiot tries to do business with someone that has that kind of feedback on record at eBay. Is it eBay's job to keep the stupid people from doing stupid things?

Nope. Definitely not. I'd never do business with someone that has that much negative feedback or has a questionable auction but, that's me.

But, should Ebay make money off Stupid people? Ebay should show some common sense by trying to eliminate those accounts that are not legit.

Unless of course you are saying that Ebay shouldn't and it is ok to make money off scams or non-shipments. . .

[Tekneek]

eBay should probably take steps to keep fraud off, because that is bad for business. You think they refuse to do anything about it?

[Mustang]

Originally posted by Tekneek
eBay should probably take steps to keep fraud off, because that is bad for business. You think they refuse to do anything about it?

No. Just lax . . . For the guy that screwed me out of my $8, they didn't shut his account down for about 3 weeks even though he continued to sell and his negative feedback continued to grow. Of course, with millions of transactions, I can see that to a degree.

Probably could have just cleared up my comments by saying, "Ebay is slow in stopping fraudulent sellers on Ebay so, protect yourself..."

And, I was only talking about fraud by the way. I wasn't trying to insinuate that every transaction should be examined by Ebay.

[Blackadar]

I love Ebay. I have one "black mark" against my account (not my fault), but I haven't been screwed. I buy from good buyers and when I sell, I insist on PayPal.

[ColtCrazy]

I have about 80 feedback points, 1 neutral. I've had a couple not pay, and I'm in the middle of one who hasn't sent me what I bought (it's been a month, but he says he forgot and just mailed it last week) so overall I'm pretty happy with it. When I sell, I insist on money orders or Paypal.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by ColtCrazy
I have about 80 feedback points, 1 neutral. I've had a couple not pay, and I'm in the middle of one who hasn't sent me what I bought (it's been a month, but he says he forgot and just mailed it last week) so overall I'm pretty happy with it. When I sell, I insist on money orders or Paypal.

Don't let him push you to 60 days if you used a credit card. You can dispute it up to that point without hassle, but after 60 days it gets harder to deal with.

[Taur]

If you do not already know PayPal is now Ebay. Ebay recently aquired PayPal.

I like to keep my money in one hand the seller in the other, so I have quit using PayPal as a Form of payment.

BTW--The "buyer protection" that PayPal/Ebay offers is as usefull as Rental-Car Insurance. Most if not all of your transactions should be covered by your credit card company. I did not know about the home-owners policy.

[Swaggs]

I am curious to hear the results of RA's talk with his homeowner's insurance company.

I handled that claim in 2001, so I am curious to see if companies have added language to exclude or limit these type of losses.

[sabotai]

It's exactly for these reasons that I:

Don't sell anythign expensive on EBay
Don't buy anything expensive on EBay
Don't keep a lot of money in my PayPal account.

[RendeR]

I've only sold a couple items through ebay, I am generally on the buying side. however if you do sell something, and recieve payment through paypal, transfer the funds OUT of paypal as soon as possible. Then if they do try to rescind the transfer, you have time and prerogative to force both paypal and ebay to take a hard look at the case.

If in fact the transaction they made was fraudelent, then their insurance will have to handle it, either through their credit card or otherwise, you are not responsible for their loss and are not required to return any such transaction. your sale was made in good faith and since you shipped the product they cannot legally require you to repay the funds.

[Raiders Army]

Update:

I have faxed off the emails to our insurance company (USAA) (24 pages total), and all I have to do is get a police report, and I believe we're good. We will get a good number on what we will get back, but it looks to be about $1,000 (with a $100 deductible).

[T.C.M]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Ebay is only bringing buyer and seller together. Why would you expect them to protect you? You are responsible for taking care of yourself. There are enough ways provided for you to judge the risk of a particular transaction, and if you provide enough evidence eBay will understand if you back out on a transaction and will not put a blackmark on your username.

I agree with you and the same thing applies to PayPal as to eBay. Here is part of an article I found about PayPal that should help clear up some confusion about them.

What exactly is PayPal?

PayPal describes itself as a "payment network" designed to facilitate transactions between buyers and sellers or small businesses. It is not an escrow service, as some people seem to mistakenly believe. An escrow service takes money from potential buyers, then holds the funds until the customers have received, inspected, and accepted the merchandise they ordered. Only then does the escrow service pass the money along to the sellers, insuring that the sellers only get paid once the buyer has been satisfied. PayPal does not work this way.

It is true that PayPal has had some unhappy users. Please click here and scroll down to the bottom right side of the page where you will find links to sites providing information involving these unhappy customers. Even with all of these complaints I believe most are caused by customers failing to realize what PayPal is and what it does and does not provide them as mentioned above.

For the record, I have never had a bad experience with eBay or PayPal and I have close to 100 positive feedbacks on eBay. All of them involved a PayPal trasnaction. I have no negative or neutral feedbacks from transaction partners and I probably have 200 more transactions where the other party did not leave me feedback at all.

T.C.M

[Swaggs]

Any luck with this, RA?

[Buzzbee]

RA - Just wanted to post some information before you get too far along in the process. Here in Atlanta we have a consumer advocate named Clark Howard. He's been offering advice on how to save money and to keep from getting ripped off for years. His radio show is nationally syndicated. He has some opinions on filing claims against your homeowner's insurance. Here is a link to his site, and some excerpts from his show notes.

Clark Howard Website - Homeowner's insurance section

CLUE reports and clueless insurance com - February 10, 2003
These days, the insurance industry overwhelmingly uses what’s called a CLUE report to decide whether to insure a home. The report basically rates a home on whether the house itself – not the individual – is too claim happy. So, if previous homeowners have made too many claims on the home, you – as the new owner – could be out of luck getting insurance. Or, you could be charged a higher rate because of the behavior or someone else. Clark thinks the system is CLUELESS and is a solution looking for a problem. How can insurance companies determine rates and coverage based on the record of a home, not a person? He had one of the marketing representatives from the CLUE system on the air to defend the process. James Lee claimed it is up to the individual insurance company to make the decision, not the CLUE folks. He also said that the reports give the consumer more ammunition in the form of information about the home and will help them when deciding whether to buy. But Clark said that 90 percent of the insurance companies use the report to make the decision these days, based on a report in the L.A. Times. So, it's clear that the report influences their decision. Clark also learned during the discussion that the original purpose of the reports was to help insurance companies learn which potential customers are lying about making claims on their homes. But the industry is instead using the information to deny coverage to honest homeowners. These practices need to stop!

Insurance companies ready to dump you - November 11, 2002
Have you owned a car or a home for a number of years? If so, you’ve probably had the same insurance company backing up your assets. You need to know that it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been with a certain insurance company. They don’t care and they’ll drop you if you make a claim. Washington Post did a story about a couple that filed a $278 claim with their insurer and got dumped. It was only their third claim in 25 years. If your insurer chooses to “non-renew” with you, as they say, then you have mark on your name. Other insurers find this out and they choose not to insure you. This is happening everywhere in the United States, and you need to be aware. Insurance companies are in the business of collecting premiums, not paying claims. We’ve heard some people have been dropped just for calling their company to ask questions. So, don’t make a claim unless you’ve had a major catastrophe. And reduce those outrageous premiums by increasing your deductible to $2,500.

[Buzzbee]

RA - Just wanted to post some information before you get too far along in the process. Here in Atlanta we have a consumer advocate named Clark Howard. He's been offering advice on how to save money and to keep from getting ripped off for years. His radio show is nationally syndicated. He has some opinions on filing claims against your homeowner's insurance. Here is a link to his site, and some excerpts from his show notes.

Clark Howard Website - Homeowner's insurance section

CLUE reports and clueless insurance com - February 10, 2003
These days, the insurance industry overwhelmingly uses what’s called a CLUE report to decide whether to insure a home. The report basically rates a home on whether the house itself – not the individual – is too claim happy. So, if previous homeowners have made too many claims on the home, you – as the new owner – could be out of luck getting insurance. Or, you could be charged a higher rate because of the behavior or someone else. Clark thinks the system is CLUELESS and is a solution looking for a problem. How can insurance companies determine rates and coverage based on the record of a home, not a person? He had one of the marketing representatives from the CLUE system on the air to defend the process. James Lee claimed it is up to the individual insurance company to make the decision, not the CLUE folks. He also said that the reports give the consumer more ammunition in the form of information about the home and will help them when deciding whether to buy. But Clark said that 90 percent of the insurance companies use the report to make the decision these days, based on a report in the L.A. Times. So, it's clear that the report influences their decision. Clark also learned during the discussion that the original purpose of the reports was to help insurance companies learn which potential customers are lying about making claims on their homes. But the industry is instead using the information to deny coverage to honest homeowners. These practices need to stop!

Insurance companies ready to dump you - November 11, 2002
Have you owned a car or a home for a number of years? If so, you’ve probably had the same insurance company backing up your assets. You need to know that it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been with a certain insurance company. They don’t care and they’ll drop you if you make a claim. Washington Post did a story about a couple that filed a $278 claim with their insurer and got dumped. It was only their third claim in 25 years. If your insurer chooses to “non-renew” with you, as they say, then you have mark on your name. Other insurers find this out and they choose not to insure you. This is happening everywhere in the United States, and you need to be aware. Insurance companies are in the business of collecting premiums, not paying claims. We’ve heard some people have been dropped just for calling their company to ask questions. So, don’t make a claim unless you’ve had a major catastrophe. And reduce those outrageous premiums by increasing your deductible to $2,500.