OT- Traffic court tips

jetpunk2000 · 08-20-2003, 07:11 PM

Hey all. I'm seeking a little advice. I have a court conference next week for a speeder I got over a year and a half ago. Now, having never actually been to court to fight a ticket, I was just wondering if anyone has any experiences to share. Now being that the ticket was so long ago, there isn't much I rememeber about the night, other than the fact that I wasn't speeding and the trooper had a hard-on to ticket me. Anyway, thanks in advance.

Nyarlahotep · 08-20-2003, 07:13 PM

Showing up is half the battle.

illinifan999 · 08-20-2003, 07:15 PM

Make them prove that you were speeding. Don't know if that will work or is even allowed, but hey what the hell.

rexallllsc · 08-20-2003, 07:17 PM

Speeding is his word v. yours, so it's tough.

Sometimes you can argue Basic Speed Law (google it) and if it was only a few MPH over the limit, you can argue laser calibration (i.e. "How long since you last calibrated your laser?" "Is it possible that it's fallen out of calibration?"), assuming you got you on laser.

Also, like another poster said, showing up is half the battle. The fact that it was 18+ months ago helps you. Chances are, he doesn't remember the incident. Bring that up during questioning ("How many tickets have you given since?" etc.) Bring his memory of the incident into question.

kcchief19 · 08-20-2003, 07:17 PM

Doesn't matter if you were guilty. Your word versus the cop -- you will always lose, especially since you are going to be one of about 50 people there fighting the same ticket against the same cop at the same location.

Unless you get into all that traffic law nonsense and can get the trooper to admit a mistake, you're screwed. Your best bet is if the trooper doesn't show up and you walk. Don't worry about the truth. The judge isn't interested in the truth.

Can you tell that I'm still bitter about an appearance in traffic court?

Rex hit on the head your best chances. You're still probably screwed, but good luck.

QuikSand · 08-20-2003, 07:19 PM

If you show up, plead guilty with an explanation, and point to a clean driving record (if you can do those things)... you're likely to get a peanut butter and jelly.

Archer219 · 08-20-2003, 07:19 PM

Ask the judge to find out if the cop had been recently certified on his radar gun around the time he gave you the ticket.

I don't know about New York, but here in Arizona, cops have to be recertified every 3 months. I've had a couple of friends get speeding tickets thrown out this way.

sabotai · 08-20-2003, 07:20 PM

kcchief is spot on right. In traffic court, you don't win. Ever. (EDIT: Except for Archer's friends.

)

Just show up. Make a deal if it's offered (ie "We'll drop the points and you'll just pay the fine.") or something like that. Why make any deal? Because you will go in, plead innocent, the cop will say you were speeding, and you'll lose.

And I'm not bitter over an incident. It's just the way it is.

jetpunk2000 · 08-20-2003, 07:23 PM

Thanks for the responses, but I'm pretty certain he didn't get me on radar. It wasn't a speed trap or anything. He must've been driving right behind me, then pulled up on the side of me and told me to stop speeding. When I denied speeding, he got tickety.

mrskippy · 08-20-2003, 07:24 PM

Pay the ticket. Go to traffic school. And have it expunged from the public record.

I've never fought a ticket, though I've heard that the officers often don't show up. If the officer fails to appear, you automatically win. If he shows up than you'll have to do your best to fight it with the calibration and memory thing.

But as a former cop reporter who did research on the subject, if the officer shows up you're pretty screwed, especially if he kept a record of the incident. As I've been told, it's more often than not word-against-word if the officer shows up. And unless the judge really likes you or has reason to overturn the ticket, you will lose.

One thing you may want to find out is the officer's history of showing up to court. If you have any friends who work for the court you should ask them. Because him not showing up is your best hope.

Otherwise suck it up, pay the ticket, go to traffice school, and have it expunged from your public record.

jetpunk2000 · 08-20-2003, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Because you will go in, plead innocent, the cop will say you were speeding, and you'll lose.

I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I already plead not guilty when I mailed the ticket in. A speedy 18 months later I get a court date.

mrskippy · 08-20-2003, 07:30 PM

In California the one ticket I got had a notice to appear on it. You either pay by that date or show up to the court to contest, with the understanding that if you lose you pay that day.

I'd have fought the ticket, but I got it five hours from home. So I accepted the guilty plea, paid, spent a day in traffic school (which actually was fun, because it was filled with a bunch of truckers). It stayed on the record visible to DMV and the cops. But it was expunged as far as the insurance company and employers.

panerd · 08-20-2003, 08:18 PM

DON'T TRY AND CONTEST THE TICKET. Did the bold make this clear enough? If you show up and try the no-cop thing the judge is going to reschedule you to trial at a different date. (And I guarantee the cop will show up, and win, and be pissed. And even though legally they can't do it, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the contested ticket somehow also ends up in your record)

As far as traffic school goes, it really isn't worth spending a whole Saturday afternoon in some small roadside rented out office complex just to save the $120 or so extra you will have to pay for a lawyer.

My suggestion (or what I did last year). Show up and ask to speak personally with the prosecutor. They will make you wait until everyone else gets through (in my case this took about 2 hours, so you may want to bring something to read) Be cool to the prosecutor (not cocky and funny) and ask if you can plead to a no-points violation, like excessive noise. They will ask if you have any previous tickets (which apperently you don't) and then should give you a no-points violation. The ticket will be a little more expensive than the speeding ticket, but a lot less expensive than a lawyer would cost. (and by the way, I asked the prosecutor on the way out about scenerio #1 and she laughed and said there is no way in hell I would have won going one on one with the cop)

rexallllsc · 08-20-2003, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
In California the one ticket I got had a notice to appear on it. You either pay by that date or show up to the court to contest, with the understanding that if you lose you pay that day.

Here's how it goes down in CA:

When you get the ticket, you get a date w/ the Clerk. You show up, and you can do three things:

-Plead Guilty and pay the fine, requesting traffic school (I recommend webtrafficschool.com. It's $25, and took me 45 minutes)
-Plead Not Guilty, pay your fine as your bail, and receive a court date (usually 6-8 weeks down the road).
-Request extension (8 weeks), which enables you to come back at a later date to decide what you want to do (Guilty, Not Guilty)

Also, if you want to hope the cop doesn't show, then on your court day you can request an extension for Discovery...who knows, maybe he won't show next time.

Where is this where you guys get 18 months in between court dates? Man...there's a decent chance the Cop might not even be on the force...or working the streets anymore!

rexallllsc · 08-20-2003, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by panerd
DON'T TRY AND CONTEST THE TICKET. Did the bold make this clear enough? If you show up and try the no-cop thing the judge is going to reschedule you to trial at a different date.

I've never heard of them rescheduling for an absentee Cop...

panerd · 08-20-2003, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rexallllsc
I've never heard of them rescheduling for an absentee Cop...

Well the guy is from New York and that is how they did traffic court in New York State a few years ago and definitely how they do traffic court in Missouri currently. You are at traffic court to either plead guilty or to plead not guilty and ask for a trial. If you opt for the later, you will be rescheduled on a different date when they hold only trials. Do you really think traffic court is going to hold 300+ trials in one night? (It isn't Night Court)

EDIT: After re-reading your earlier post, you describe exactly what I am talking about. I think you just didn't understand what I meant in my original post. The cop is never going to show up at the initial court appearance.

Draft Dodger · 08-20-2003, 08:43 PM

I guy I worked with years ago was a real piece of work. He had been told somewhere along the way that all you had to do was go to court and ask for a copy of the radar readout, or the calibration paperwork, or some other mythological lame loophole like that.

So, he marched into court all confident and demanded whatever it was that he demanded, and the judge shot him down. If I'm not mistaken, I think the judge tacked on a bit extra just because this guy was such an overconfident prick about how he was going to get off easy.

Don't be that guy.

rexallllsc · 08-20-2003, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by panerd
Well the guy is from New York and that is how they did traffic court in New York State a few years ago and definitely how they do traffic court in Missouri currently. You are at traffic court to either plead guilty or to plead not guilty and ask for a trial. If you opt for the later, you will be rescheduled on a different date when they hold only trials. Do you really think traffic court is going to hold 300+ trials in one night? (It isn't Night Court)

EDIT: After re-reading your earlier post, you describe exactly what I am talking about. I think you just didn't understand what I meant in my original post. The cop is never going to show up at the initial court appearance.

I see what you mean. Out here, yes...the cop is never there for the initial plea. Judges don't even deal with that here. I was talking about the actual court date itself.

sooner333 · 08-20-2003, 08:57 PM

For my "Failure to devote full attention to the roadway" ticket that I recieved, I showed up to court, worked out a probation deal, where the record would be expunged if I didn't get in trouble for the next six months. This required a no contest plea, but it was worth it. The court fees I paid were roughly the same as the ticket, but it went off my record in six months.

Anyway, the accident that I caused by failing to devote full attention to the roadway was wiped off insurance because they for some reason gave a family with a son with less than 7 months driving experience a "free accident" on the policy for not having any problems since we bought the policy. Good luck for me. The bad news is they later raised their rates for the entirity of their customers, and I can't just switch to another company because to everyone else, I got in an accident. Life goes on though.

albionmoonlight · 09-09-2003, 06:13 PM

update?

Fritz · 09-09-2003, 07:09 PM

1.) wear underpants

2.) ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FLY UP

08-20-2003, 07:15 PM	#3
illinifan999 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: VA	Make them prove that you were speeding. Don't know if that will work or is even allowed, but hey what the hell. __________________ Chicago Eagles 2 time ZFL champions We're "rebuilding"

08-20-2003, 07:17 PM	#5
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	Doesn't matter if you were guilty. Your word versus the cop -- you will always lose, especially since you are going to be one of about 50 people there fighting the same ticket against the same cop at the same location. Unless you get into all that traffic law nonsense and can get the trooper to admit a mistake, you're screwed. Your best bet is if the trooper doesn't show up and you walk. Don't worry about the truth. The judge isn't interested in the truth. Can you tell that I'm still bitter about an appearance in traffic court? Rex hit on the head your best chances. You're still probably screwed, but good luck. Last edited by kcchief19 : 08-20-2003 at 07:18 PM.

08-20-2003, 07:19 PM	#7
Archer219 Mascot Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Gilbert, Arizona	Ask the judge to find out if the cop had been recently certified on his radar gun around the time he gave you the ticket. I don't know about New York, but here in Arizona, cops have to be recertified every 3 months. I've had a couple of friends get speeding tickets thrown out this way. __________________ I can be as humble as the nexy guy Or I can blink and make you crumble from the inside. I can make you see the beauty of a new sun Or I can be the source of your desperation.

08-20-2003, 07:20 PM	#8
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	kcchief is spot on right. In traffic court, you don't win. Ever. (EDIT: Except for Archer's friends. ) Just show up. Make a deal if it's offered (ie "We'll drop the points and you'll just pay the fine.") or something like that. Why make any deal? Because you will go in, plead innocent, the cop will say you were speeding, and you'll lose. And I'm not bitter over an incident. It's just the way it is. Last edited by sabotai : 08-20-2003 at 07:21 PM.

08-20-2003, 08:18 PM	#13
panerd Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis	DON'T TRY AND CONTEST THE TICKET. Did the bold make this clear enough? If you show up and try the no-cop thing the judge is going to reschedule you to trial at a different date. (And I guarantee the cop will show up, and win, and be pissed. And even though legally they can't do it, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the contested ticket somehow also ends up in your record) As far as traffic school goes, it really isn't worth spending a whole Saturday afternoon in some small roadside rented out office complex just to save the $120 or so extra you will have to pay for a lawyer. My suggestion (or what I did last year). Show up and ask to speak personally with the prosecutor. They will make you wait until everyone else gets through (in my case this took about 2 hours, so you may want to bring something to read) Be cool to the prosecutor (not cocky and funny) and ask if you can plead to a no-points violation, like excessive noise. They will ask if you have any previous tickets (which apperently you don't) and then should give you a no-points violation. The ticket will be a little more expensive than the speeding ticket, but a lot less expensive than a lawyer would cost. (and by the way, I asked the prosecutor on the way out about scenerio #1 and she laughed and said there is no way in hell I would have won going one on one with the cop) Last edited by panerd : 08-20-2003 at 08:21 PM.

08-20-2003, 07:13 PM	#2
Nyarlahotep College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2003	Showing up is half the battle.

08-20-2003, 07:17 PM	#4
rexallllsc Banned Join Date: May 2003	Speeding is his word v. yours, so it's tough. Sometimes you can argue Basic Speed Law (google it) and if it was only a few MPH over the limit, you can argue laser calibration (i.e. "How long since you last calibrated your laser?" "Is it possible that it's fallen out of calibration?"), assuming you got you on laser. Also, like another poster said, showing up is half the battle. The fact that it was 18+ months ago helps you. Chances are, he doesn't remember the incident. Bring that up during questioning ("How many tickets have you given since?" etc.) Bring his memory of the incident into question.

08-20-2003, 07:19 PM	#6
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	If you show up, plead guilty with an explanation, and point to a clean driving record (if you can do those things)... you're likely to get a peanut butter and jelly.

08-20-2003, 07:23 PM	#9
jetpunk2000 Waterboy Forever Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Oceanside NY	Thanks for the responses, but I'm pretty certain he didn't get me on radar. It wasn't a speed trap or anything. He must've been driving right behind me, then pulled up on the side of me and told me to stop speeding. When I denied speeding, he got tickety.

08-20-2003, 07:24 PM	#10
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	Pay the ticket. Go to traffic school. And have it expunged from the public record. I've never fought a ticket, though I've heard that the officers often don't show up. If the officer fails to appear, you automatically win. If he shows up than you'll have to do your best to fight it with the calibration and memory thing. But as a former cop reporter who did research on the subject, if the officer shows up you're pretty screwed, especially if he kept a record of the incident. As I've been told, it's more often than not word-against-word if the officer shows up. And unless the judge really likes you or has reason to overturn the ticket, you will lose. One thing you may want to find out is the officer's history of showing up to court. If you have any friends who work for the court you should ask them. Because him not showing up is your best hope. Otherwise suck it up, pay the ticket, go to traffice school, and have it expunged from your public record.

08-20-2003, 07:30 PM	#12
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	In California the one ticket I got had a notice to appear on it. You either pay by that date or show up to the court to contest, with the understanding that if you lose you pay that day. I'd have fought the ticket, but I got it five hours from home. So I accepted the guilty plea, paid, spent a day in traffic school (which actually was fun, because it was filled with a bunch of truckers). It stayed on the record visible to DMV and the cops. But it was expunged as far as the insurance company and employers.

08-20-2003, 08:43 PM	#17
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	I guy I worked with years ago was a real piece of work. He had been told somewhere along the way that all you had to do was go to court and ask for a copy of the radar readout, or the calibration paperwork, or some other mythological lame loophole like that. So, he marched into court all confident and demanded whatever it was that he demanded, and the judge shot him down. If I'm not mistaken, I think the judge tacked on a bit extra just because this guy was such an overconfident prick about how he was going to get off easy. Don't be that guy. __________________ Mile High Hockey Last edited by Draft Dodger : 08-20-2003 at 08:44 PM.

08-20-2003, 08:57 PM	#19
sooner333 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Norman, OK	For my "Failure to devote full attention to the roadway" ticket that I recieved, I showed up to court, worked out a probation deal, where the record would be expunged if I didn't get in trouble for the next six months. This required a no contest plea, but it was worth it. The court fees I paid were roughly the same as the ticket, but it went off my record in six months. Anyway, the accident that I caused by failing to devote full attention to the roadway was wiped off insurance because they for some reason gave a family with a son with less than 7 months driving experience a "free accident" on the policy for not having any problems since we bought the policy. Good luck for me. The bad news is they later raised their rates for the entirity of their customers, and I can't just switch to another company because to everyone else, I got in an accident. Life goes on though.

09-09-2003, 06:13 PM	#20
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	update?

09-09-2003, 07:09 PM	#21
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	1.) wear underpants 2.) ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FLY UP __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

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