Chad Pennington injury

[TroyF]

ESPN is reporting Chad Pennington likely done for the year.

TroyF

[ISiddiqui]

There goes the Jets year.

[daedalus]

That sucks. I really liked watching him play.

As for the Jets season, though, wasn't Edwards contemplating getting Vinnie some snaps anyway? So, it may not be so bad. Mind you, that's "not so bad" for with losing the starting QB *and* the top receiver so, y'know, it isn't great either.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, but I really doubt they'll get to the playoffs this year. Martin isn't getting any younger either.

[44Niners]

Another year, another couple major injuries in the pointless exhibition season!

I know the only reason the NFL exhibition season is so long is to bring in the extra dough, but hell how much does it cost to pay players like this to not play. One of these days they are going to realize a one or two game exhibition schedule is plenty.

[Hammer755]

Originally posted by daedalus
That sucks. I really liked watching him play.

As for the Jets season, though, wasn't Edwards contemplating getting Vinnie some snaps anyway? So, it may not be so bad. Mind you, that's "not so bad" for with losing the starting QB *and* the top receiver so, y'know, it isn't great either.

I read that also. Edwards was trying to figure out a way to get Vinnie the 500 yards he needed to reach 40,000 career passing yards. Somehow I don't figure this was the way he envisioned accomplishing it.

[Fritz]

dumb fucker didn;t think to get on a game box first. what a waste

[FrogMan]

official word is out for 12 weeks...

FM

[JimboJ]

Can someone please explain to me why they don't just eliminate 2 of the preseason games, start the regular season two weeks earlier, and play an 18 game season? Doesn't the NFL stand to make more money playing a longer season? Isn't that why they added the bye week, and went to a 17 week schedule?

The teams (at least the Eagles) force season ticket holders to buy tickets for the preseason anyway, and charge the same price as the regular season games. Of course players would want bigger contracts, but that would be compensated for by the extra two weeks of games on national TV. Granted the ratings wouldn't be as good as they are when the weather is colder, but they have to be better than anything else the networks put on in August.

[Ryche]

The Jets may have just moved into position to obtain the number one draft pick next season. On the bright side, you then get Pennington back and teamed up with Roy Williams from Texas.

[Kam]

So which team will do worse:
The New York/New Jersey Jets
or the Washington Redski....errr....Jets?

[Craptacular]

Go Brooks Bollinger!

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally posted by JimboJ
Can someone please explain to me why they don't just eliminate 2 of the preseason games, start the regular season two weeks earlier, and play an 18 game season?

Probably one or both of these reasons:

1) Conditioning
2) Player evaluation

We know most of these guys work out all year, so they're physically in shape, but how many of them play competitively at a high level in the offseason? Not very many. Training camps, practices, and scrimmages just aren't the same. It takes time for most players to adjust to the tempo of the game after some months off, and the preseason schedule allows them that.

If NFL teams just had their draft picks, a few rookie free agents, and one or two washed up vets on their last go-around, they might be able to get by with just two games to evaluate them and make cuts. But they don't do this - they bring on LOTS and LOTS of rookies, mostly free agents. By far the best way to evaluate them is to put them in a game and see how they play. The fewer the number of games available, the less accurate the evaluation.

My two cents on the matter.

[Sharpieman]

I can live with 16 games, thats a perfect number and that shouldn't be changed. I think it would be smarter for the NFL to cut 2 preseason games. 44niners made a good point about how much it costs for the players contracts vs. the benefit of a few extra preseason bucks.

[cthomer5000]

On preseason: I'd like to see the NFL cut 1 preseason game, but I don't think it will ever happen.

On the injury: As a Jet fan I've actually been predicting this since minicamp. My running joke with the guys at work was how this bad offseason would be capped by a season-ending injury to Pennington. I'm sad to see it happen. The injury sounds fucking horrible:

Pennington had surgery Saturday night in New York. To set the fracture, doctors inserted seven surgical pins into his wrist. Edwards said Pennington had broken carpal bones 2 through 7. He also allowed that, even after rehabilitation, Pennington might have to work through some residual stiffness in the wrist.

It sounds like he may end up missing the season, and if that's whats best for him in the long run I think they should hold him out. As much as I hate Testeverde, i can suck it up and actually root for the whining bastard for a season.

[Bee]

This sucks. He was my fantasy football backup QB.

[ice4277]

Originally posted by Bee
This sucks. He was my fantasy football backup QB.

In one of my leagues I had Pennington and Warner; I thought Pennington would have been the safe bet out of those two...not now.

[Super Ugly]

Not good at all ...

[Kodos]

In the ultimate sad scenario, I am in a league where you start 2 QBs. Pennington was to be my second QB, behind McNabb. Now, my options are Rodney Peete and **sob** Quincy Carter.

[Jets80]

Originally posted by Craptacular
Go Brooks Bollinger!

He's hurt too... Jets are looking to sign another QB.


This sucks!!! The season is over before it even started.

[Bee]

Originally posted by Kodos
In the ultimate sad scenario, I am in a league where you start 2 QBs. Pennington was to be my second QB, behind McNabb. Now, my options are Rodney Peete and **sob** Quincy Carter.

You may still be better off starting Pennington.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
On the injury: As a Jet fan I've actually been predicting this since minicamp. My running joke with the guys at work was how this bad offseason would be capped by a season-ending injury to Pennington. I'm sad to see it happen.

So YOU are to blame!

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by daedalus
So YOU are to blame!

if what I said had any effect on the NFL, Ray Lucas would be a 5 time MVP at this point.

[TroyF]

Kodos starting a Cowboy? This ought to be fun. Looks like that strategy of picking 3 solid QB's while everyone else was going after RB's may pay off afterall.

TroyF

[Kodos]

I will be starting Peete whenever that is an option. At least he probably won't earn negative points.

[Craptacular]

Originally posted by Jets80
He's hurt too... Jets are looking to sign another QB.

Yeah, but his injury isn't bad. Once Vinny's arm falls off, Brooks can take charge. Can the Jets run the option?

[Samdari]

Originally posted by 44Niners
how much does it cost to pay players like this to not play

Umm, nothing!

Salaries for star players like Pennington and Vick are fixed. They pay them whether they play or not. If you can raise revenue by having these preseason games, and not risk the revenue from regular season, from a purely financial standpoint, why would you not do so? Neither the Falcons nor the Jets will lose any money from the loss of their stars.

[Mustang]

Originally posted by Samdari
Umm, nothing!

Salaries for star players like Pennington and Vick are fixed. They pay them whether they play or not. If you can raise revenue by having these preseason games, and not risk the revenue from regular season, from a purely financial standpoint, why would you not do so? Neither the Falcons nor the Jets will lose any money from the loss of their stars.

???? Ex-squeeze me?

You're right. You still pay Vick/Pennington whether they are healthy or not but, you lose money if they are healthy because you have to pay someone to replace their roster spot if they go on IR... Not to mention financial loss if your season is ruined by a few injuries...

[Butter]

Anyone think the Jets will sign Ray Lucas again?

[condors]

i think those slackers should play 48 game schedule so i can watch football year round!

actually i like it as it is now as i am eager to get things started i don't miss the other sports nearly as much

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
Anyone think the Jets will sign Ray Lucas again?

I was hoping and praying for this, but Herm Edwards immediately shot it down when asked about it.

They already signed Todd Husak, who had been with them last year.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Mustang
???? Ex-squeeze me?

You're right. You still pay Vick/Pennington whether they are healthy or not but, you lose money if they are healthy because you have to pay someone to replace their roster spot if they go on IR... Not to mention financial loss if your season is ruined by a few injuries...

LOL, you think an NFL team is worried about the $150,000 they will have to pay Husak if he plays the whole season? Its not like when a 5-10 million dollar player gets hurt there are any 5-10 million $ caliber players available to replace them with. The Jets player costs have just gone up roughly 0.2% as a result of this injury, and their cap costs went up 0.

And there is very little, if any, financial loss for a ruined season. The Jets and Falcons are already sold out for the regular season. Teams get like 40% of the gate for home playoff games. They get no extra tv money from playing in postseason. Given the chance of a season wrecking injury in preseason games (despite the hype, very low) the money they get from the guarantee of two home preseason games is far more than they can expect to lose from this type of injury.

Considering that (a) teams rarely lose any revenue due to injuries in preseason games and (b) their costs go up a tiny margin when this happens, it makes financial sense to have the games.

We as fans (and I am a Jet fan) do not care about the additional revenue, and from a competitive standpoint it does not make sense to me, but I fail to see where the NFL (or the team it happens to) loses a significant amount of money when this happens. And the small amount they lose is more than made up for by the roughly 15 or so home preaseason games each team holds between such disastrous injuries.

And condors I agree with you a bit - the NFL needs nightly games during the fall. Waiting between weekends is painful. I do not think the Jets were ever as enamored with Lucas as Parcells was, though. I am stunned he is not in Dallas.

[Butter]

Todd Husak? Yikes.

I guess I'm a tad bit behind with this story.

I bet Turk Schonert, Erik Wilhelm, and Donald Hollas are available, though.

[Mustang]

So.. you use the extreme. A $10 Million dollar player in exchange for a $150K player.

How about the situation where the Packers could have lost Gilbert Brown for the season and having to potentially try to replace him with Wilkenson for potentially more $ and hampering their cap even more.

You don't think a ruined season has any financial impact? So, if you are planning on 70K fans in the seats but, are now only drawing 40K because the team stinks, who is going to replace the parking, concession and other $ fans will spend if they are at the stadium?

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Mustang
So.. you use the extreme. A $10 Million dollar player in exchange for a $150K player.

How about the situation where the Packers could have lost Gilbert Brown for the season and having to potentially try to replace him with Wilkenson for potentially more $ and hampering their cap even more.

You don't think a ruined season has any financial impact? So, if you are planning on 70K fans in the seats but, are now only drawing 40K because the team stinks, who is going to replace the parking, concession and other $ fans will spend if they are at the stadium?

I thought the situation we were discussing was when high priced players in the league got hurt in preseason? No one worries when scrubs get hurt. And as far as replacing them with low priced players, most teams are up against the cap, and any pickups this time of year are for low dollars. I am not using an extreme example to prove my point, I believe I am using a typical example. I am attempting to refute the whole idea that having high priced players out with injuries costs a team that player's salary. The examples I am using are not hypothetical, they are real world. The reason such discussions are happening at the moment is because Pennington and Vick got hurt. The actual salary costs to those teams due to those injuries is probably less than 500k.

As for your example, you are obviously unaware of how much Brown makes (more than the Wilkinson's $3 million, I believe) and that Wilkinson is out of a job because no NFL team thinks he is worth the 3 million he was going to make in Washington. If he plays this year, it will be for the minimum salary he is allowed. There will be no big money signings of free agents, there never is at this time.

Well, the team has already sold the 70,000 seats (the case in most NFL cities) so those 30,00 seats are not a concern. Also at most stadiums to buy tickets in the stadium lots, you must buy a pass with your season tickets. Those are already sold. Parking at private lots will likely suffer, but the team gets none of that money. Most concessions are done through contracts, so the contracting company will share the loss with the team, if not absorb it themselves. NFL teams go to great lengths to ensure that costs and revenues are fixed, and are largely successful.

I don't think that the impact is zero, but it does not have to be zero to make sense financially. It only has to be less than the dollars generated from selling tickets and parking passes at full price to all of your season ticket holders from two games. It probably is. Even if it is not, only two teams had such occurences this year, and 30 did not. Last year I am pretty sure no team had its season ruined due to an injury in a preseason game. I think everyone would take those odds. 62 occurences of huge positive financial gain vs two occurrences of minimal financial loss. And one of those two may be no loss at all, if Vick does indeed only miss four games.

[FishFan]

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
Anyone think the Jets will sign Ray Lucas again?

So he can ruin the Jets' season singlehandedly like he ruined the Dolphins' season last year?

[Butter]

That was the general hope, yes.

[Honolulu Blue]

From Mike Florio and his Pro Football Talk Rumor Mill:

The Washington Post reports that NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue is "seriously considering" authorizing the league to study the feasibility of adding two regular season games.

Tags would make the proposal at league meetings in October, and the earliest date for implementation is 2005.

The move, if it is made, would cut the preseason back by two games. Tagliabue said the change would be for competitive reasons, and that it would not be made in response to concerns regarding player injuries in meaningless games.

"We need to focus on whether or not two games are sufficient to get a team ready for the season," Tagliabue said. "Many clubs feel that just in the past five years the offseason training and preparation has changed dramatically for the better. Some clubs feel that their coaching staffs are as intensively involved in preparing to play football in April and May and June as they are in September and November. Some of these clubs are concluding that for many players, including the top players, the second and third preseason games are critical while the first and fourth games are merely complementary."

NFLPA executive director Gene Upshaw agrees. "The game has changed so much a player does not need four games to get ready for the regular season. You're not going to get any complaints from the players if they shorten the preseason," he said.

I've just quoted the first few paragraphs; the article goes on to discuss some of the possible ramifications - such as player salaries, TV revenue, and scheduling. It's worth reading, I think.

If the owners and players think they can get into shape and properly evaluate players with just two preseason games, then I withdraw my objections.

[ice4277]

As long as it does not upset the competitive balance of the league, I think it would be a great idea to do this.

[The_herd]

I'm always up for more football, but I really don't like this. These guys take enough of a pounding over 16 games. This means the Super Bowl teams would play 21-22 games.

This would be a decision based on money and money alone. Most players want the preseason shortened a couple games, so they have to make up the money somewhere.