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08-26-2003, 03:57 PM
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#1 | ||
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Another ploy for Fantasy Football opinions
Hey all,
The fantasy football leauge I'm in just had its draft on Saturday, so I figured I'd post the draft results, and ask what you guys thought of the teams. Both lurker and I are in the league, and she's not as football-savvy as the rest of the league (this is her 2nd season of fantasy football, and before that she hardly paid attention to the sport at all). So anyway, this is an attempt to a) show her that her team is okay, and b) show me that my team is okay. To keep things unbiased, I won't say which team belongs to whom until later. Anyway, here are the rules. Starting Positions: QB, WR, WR, WR, RB, RB, TE, WR/TE, K, D, D, DL, DL, DB, DB, Bench, Bench, Bench, Bench, Bench, Bench, Bench Statistical Categories (Offense): Completions (1) Incomplete Passes (-1) Passing Yards (50 yards per point) Passing Touchdowns (6) Interceptions (-3) Rushing Yards (15 yards per point) Rushing Touchdowns (6) Receptions (.5) Reception Yards (20 yards per point) Reception Touchdowns (6) Return Yards (50 yards per point) Return Touchdowns (6) 2 Point Conversions (2) Fumbles Lost (-3) Statistical Categories (Kickers): Field Goals 0-19 Yards (3) Field Goals 20-29 Yards (3) Field Goals 30-39 Yards (3) Field Goals 40-49 Yards (4) Field Goals 50+ Yards (5) Field Goals Missed 0-19 Yards (-3) Field Goals Missed 20-29 Yards (-2) Field Goals Missed 30-39 Yards (-1) Field Goals Missed 40-49 Yards (0) Field Goals Missed 50+ Yards (0) Point After Attempt Made (1) Point After Attempt Missed (-1) Statistical Categories (Defense Players): Tackle Solo (0.5) Tackle Assist (.25) Sack (3) Interception (3) Fumble Force (1.5) Fumble Recovery (3) Touchdown (6) Safety (2) Pass Defended (1) Block Kick (3) |
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08-26-2003, 03:58 PM
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#2 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Here's the draft. Team AO got bumped to the bottom for the first few rounds, because they showed up late (per our rules). Other than that, it's a snake draft.
ROUND ONE 1)NYH: Gannon, QB OAK 2)BD: R WIlliams, RB MIA 3)FCS: Manning, QB IND 4)WFS: PHolmes, RB KC 5)PP: SAlexander RB SEA 6)SPS: LD Tomlinson RB SD 7)AG: Harrison WR IND 8)AO: Brooks QB NO ROUND TWO 1)AG- portis rb den 2)SPS- DMcAlister RB NO 3)PP- T Barber, RB nyg 4)WFS- C Garner RB Oak 5)FCS- Faulk RB StL 6)BD- Owens Wr SF 7)NYH- Ward WR Pit 8)AO- T Green qb KC ROUND THREE 1)NYH- THenry, RB Buf 2)BD- Bledsoe, QB Buf 3)FCS- Brady, QB NE 4)WFS-Pennington, QB NYJ 5)PP- McNair, QB Ten 6)SPS- Moss, Min 7)AG- George, RB Ten 8)AO- F Taylor, RB Jax ROUND FOUR 1) AG Moulds, WR Buf 2) SPS Garcia, QB SF 3) PP- Price, WR Atl 4) WFS- Toomer, WR NYG 5) FCS- AGreen, RB GB 6) BD- WGreen, RB Cle 7) NYH- Horn, WR NO 8) AO- Staley, RB Phi ROUND FIVE 1) NYH- Dillon, RB Cin 2) BD- Koren Robinson, WR SEA 3) FCS- Martin, RB NYJ 4) WFS- Hearst RB SF 5) PP- Burress WR Pit 6) SPS- Driver, WR GB 7) AG- Coles, WR Was 8) AO- JLewis, RB Bal ROUND SIX 1) AG- Holt WR StL 2) SPS- Gonzalez TE KC 3) PP- Rice WR OAK 4) AO- Heap TE Bal 5) WFS- Franks TE GB 6) FCS- Shockey TE NYG 7) BD- Pollard TE Ind 8) NYH- Booker WR Chi
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Pride and Prejudice -- an FOF9 Lions dynasty, starting 1966 |
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08-26-2003, 03:59 PM
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#3 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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1) NYH- E James RB Ind
2) BD- Keyshawn Johnson wr TB 3) FCS- R Smith WR Den 4) WFS- I Bruce WR StL 5) AO- R gardner WR Was 6) PP- Chad Johnson WR Cin 7) SPS- Urlacher DL Chi 8) AG- Chrebet WR NYJ ROUND EIGHT 1) AG- S Davis RB Car 2) SPS- RLewis DL Bal 3) PP- M Bennett RB 4) AO- J Porter WR Oak 5) WFS- Mason WR Ten 6) FCS- Thrash WR Phi 7) BD- J Reed WR Buf 8) NYH- D Boston WR SD ROUND NINE 1) NYH- Troy Brown WR NE 2) BD- T Hambrick RB DAL 3) FCS- C Conway WR NYJ 4) WFS- Tim Brown WR Oak 5) AO- T Streets WR SF 6) PP- T Taylor WR Bal 7) SPS- D Stallworth WR NO 8) AG- J Taylor DL Mia ROUND TEN 1) AG- S Rice DL TB 2) SPS- R Williams DB Dal 3) PP- S Sharpe TE Den 4) AO- S Smith WR Car 5) WFS- R Woodson DB Oak 6) FCS- B Finneran WR Atl 7) BD- Q Morgan WR Cle 8) NYH- D Culpepper QB Min Round ELEVEN 1) NYH- Miller TE Hou 2) BD- Plummer QB Den 3) FCS- K McCardell WR TB 4) WFS- Farve QB GB 5) AO- A Wilson LB Den 6) PP- D Freeney DL Ind 7) SPS- D Brooks LB TB 8) AG- Archuleta DB StL ROUND TWELVE 1) AG- Mike Green DB Chi 2) SPS- J Porter DL Pit 3) PP- B Dawkins DB Phi 4) AO- L Schulters DB Ten 5) WFS- J Sharper DL Hou 6) FCS- E Barton DL Oak 7) BD- S Knight DB Mia 8) NYH- D Edwards DL SD |
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08-26-2003, 03:59 PM
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#4 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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RD 13
1) NYH- Fauria TE NE 2) BD- L Fletcher DL Buf 3) FCS- K Gbaja-Biamila DL GB 4) WFS- Pinkston WR Phi 5) AO- I Gold DL Den 6) PP- D Bly DB Det 7) SPS- M Brown DB Chi 8) AG- A Carter DL SF RD 14 1) AG- C Chambers WR Mia 2) SPS- D McNabb QB Phi 3) PP- D Brees QB SD 4) AO- N Clements DB Buf 5) WFS- Tongue DB Sea 6) FCS- B Kelly DB TB 7) BD- K Bulluck DL Ten 8) NYH- Parrish DB SF RD 15 1) NYH- A Smith RB NE 2) BD- E Holmes DL Det 3) FCS- A Crumpler TE Atl 4) WFS- K Brady TE Jax 5) AO- McMichael TE Mia 6) PP- Galloway WR Dal 7) SPS- Bradford WR Hou 8) AG- Canidate RB Was RD 16 1) AG- Vick QB Atl 2) SPS- W Dunn RB Atl 3) PP- Vrabel DL Dal 4) AO- J Stewart RB Det 5) WFS- Feeley K Atl 6) FCS- Grammatica K TB 7) BD- R Wayne WR IND 8) NYH- Fields DL Car RD 17 1) NYH- Maslowski DL KC 2) BD- E Reed DB Bal 3) FCS- Colvin DL NE 4) WFS- A Glenn DB Hou 5) AO- C Rogers WR Det 6) PP- D O'Neal DB Den 7) SPS- A Lelie WR Den 8) AG- BJohnson QB TB RD 18 1) AG- H Douglas DL Jax 2) SPS- R Barber DB TB 3) PP- Eaton DL Sea 4) AO- C Brown DL sea 5) WFS- M Rucker DL Car 6) FCS- M Strahan DL NYG 7) BD- C Claibourne DL Min 8) NYH- K Brooking DL Atl |
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08-26-2003, 04:00 PM
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#5 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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RD 19
1) NYH- J Kearse DL Ten 2) BD- Janikowski K Oak 3) FCS- Thomas DB NO 4) WFS- L Little DL StL 5) AO- B Marion DB MIA 6) PP- Elam K Den 7) SPS- Peppers DL Car 8) AG- Cash DB Det RD 20 1) AG- J Smith WR Jax 2) SPS- D Jackson WR Sea 3) PP- M Shipp RB Ari 4) AO- Akers K Phi 5) WFS- Kearney DL Atl 6) FCS- M Minter DB Car 7) BD- A Thomas RB Chi 8) NYH- R McNeil DB SD RD 21 1) NYH- B Taylor DB Phi 2) DB- Roland Williams TE Oak 3) FCS- P Boulware DL Bal 4) WFS- A Molden DB Was 5) AO- Z Thomas DL Mia 6) PP- P Warrick WR Cin 7) SPS- Bettis RB Pit 8) AG- Conwell TE NO RD 22 1) AG- Vanderjagt K Ind 2) SPS- Longwell K GB 3) PP- Buchannon DB Oak 4) AO- McCaffery WR Den 5) WFS- Carney K NO 6) FCS- Vinatieri K NE 7) BD- J Stevens TE Sea 8) NYH- Hollis K NYG |
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08-26-2003, 04:09 PM
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#6 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Kind of a strange draft. LT #6? Portis and Faulk in round 2? Moss near the end of round 3? Vrabel in round 16? How about all the defensive players picked ahead of Peppers? Bubba Franks over Jeremy Shockey? Yikes.
Interesting to say the least. You'll have to post full teams for me to evaluate. (I'm lazy, I don't feel like writing down everyone's team)  Some good picks with the question marks too. TroyF |
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08-26-2003, 04:11 PM
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#7 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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I would have posted it team by team, but our commish hasn't posted the results. One coach posted the draft round by round, so that's all I have to go by.
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08-26-2003, 04:17 PM
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#8 |
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High School JV
Join Date: May 2001
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Yeah, what's taking the commish so long?
And I am so going to screw up this year. When I saw "LT" I thought it was some position I didn't know about until I saw the #6 after. Crap. |
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08-26-2003, 04:43 PM
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#9 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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OK, just quickly glancing at things: I have to like what SPS did. Lets list the team:
1) Tomlinson 2) McCallister 3) Moss 4) Garcia 5) Driver 6) Tony Gonzales 7) Urlacher 8) Ray Lewis 9) Stallworth 10) Roy Williams 11) Derrick Brooks 12) Joey Porter 13) Mike Brown 14) Donovan McNabb (who is actually better than his QB picked 10 rounds earlier) 15) Cory Bradford 16) Warrick Dunn 17) Lelie (an absolute steal in this spot) 18) Rhonde Barber 19) Julius Peppers 20) Darrel Jackson 21) Jerome Bettis 22) Ryan Longwell ---------------------------------------------- Out of the 22 players this person drafted, I think he had SUPER value on at least 4 of those picks. (Tomlinson, Moss, McNabb, Lelie) Just at a glance, I can't see a lot of instances where this person "reached". I'd have to look at the total rosters, but I think I'd be penciling this guy in as my preseason favorite. TroyF |
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08-26-2003, 06:19 PM
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#10 |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO, USA
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I'd rank AG first. Whoever it was held out on drafting a QB but still got decent ones to go with the best receiver and perhaps the best running back. Tell the person to swing a trade of Holt for Culpepper from NYH and they win the league.
AG 1 WR Harrison 2 RB Portis 3 RB George 4 WR Moulds 5 WR Coles 6 WR Holt 7 WR Chrebet 8 RB Davis 9 DL Taylor 16 QB Vick 18 QB Johnson
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Some knots are better left untied. |
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08-27-2003, 04:29 AM
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#11 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Hey Passa, how's this?
tm plyr player pos team AG Vick QB Atl AG B Johnson QB TB AG portis rb den AG George RB Ten AG S Davis RB Car AG Canidate RB Was AG Conwell TE NO AG Harrison WR IND AG Moulds WR Buf AG Coles WR Was AG Holt WR StL AG Chrebet WR NYJ AG C Chambers WR Mia AG J Smith WR Jax AG Vanderjagt K Ind AG J Taylor DL Mia AG S Rice DL TB AG A Carter DL SF AG H Douglas DL Jax AG Archuleta DB StL AG Mike Green DB Chi AG Cash DB Det AO Brooks QB NO AO T Green qb KC AO F Taylor RB Jax AO Staley RB Phi AO J Lewis RB Bal AO J Stewart RB Det AO Heap TE Bal AO McMichael TE Mia AO R gardner WR Was AO J Porter WR Oak AO T Streets WR SF AO S Smith WR Car AO C Rogers WR Det AO McCaffery WR Den AO Akers K Phi AO I Gold DL Den AO C Brown DL sea AO Z Thomas DL Mia AO A Wilson LB Den AO L Schulters DB Ten AO N Clements DB Buf AO B Marion DB MIA BD Bledsoe QB Buf BD Plummer QB Den BD R WIlliams RB MIA BD W Green RB Cle BD T Hambrick RB DAL BD A Thomas RB Chi BD Pollard TE Ind BD J Stevens TE Sea BD Owens Wr SF BD Koren Robinson WR SEA BD Keyshawn Johnson wr TB BD J Reed WR Buf BD Q Morgan WR Cle BD R Wayne WR IND BD Janikowski K Oak BD L Fletcher DL Buf BD K Bulluck DL Ten BD E Holmes DL Det BD C Claibourne DL Min BD S Knight DB Mia BD E Reed DB Bal BD Roland Williams TE Oak FCS Manning QB IND FCS Brady QB NE FCS Faulk RB StL FCS A Green RB GB FCS Martin RB NYJ FCS Shockey TE NYG FCS A Crumpler TE Atl FCS R Smith WR Den FCS Thrash WR Phi FCS C Conway WR NYJ FCS B Finneran WR Atl FCS K McCardell WR TB FCS Grammatica K TB FCS Vinatieri K NE FCS E Barton DL Oak FCS K Gbaja-Biamila DL GB FCS Colvin DL NE FCS M Strahan DL NYG FCS P Boulware DL Bal FCS B Kelly DB TB FCS Thomas DB NO FCS M Minter DB Car NYH Gannon QB OAK NYH D Culpepper QB Min NYH T Henry RB Buf NYH Dillon RB Cin NYH E James RB Ind NYH A Smith RB NE NYH Miller TE Hou NYH Fauria TE NE NYH Ward WR Pit NYH Horn WR NO NYH Booker WR Chi NYH D Boston WR SD NYH Troy Brown WR NE NYH Hollis K NYG NYH D Edwards DL SD NYH Fields DL Car NYH Maslowski DL KC NYH K Brooking DL Atl NYH J Kearse DL Ten NYH Parrish DB SF NYH R McNeil DB SD NYH B Taylor DB Phi PP McNair QB Ten PP D Brees QB SD PP S Alexander RB SEA PP T Barber RB nyg PP M Bennett RB Min PP M Shipp RB Ari PP S Sharpe TE Den PP Price WR Atl PP Burress WR Pit PP Rice WR OAK PP Chad Johnson WR Cin PP T Taylor WR Bal PP Galloway WR Dal PP P Warrick WR Cin PP Elam K Den PP D Freeney DL Ind PP Vrabel DL Dal PP Eaton DL Sea PP B Dawkins DB Phi PP D Bly DB Det PP D O'Neal DB Den PP Buchannon DB Oak SPS Garcia QB SF SPS D McNabb QB Phi SPS LD Tomlinson RB SD SPS D McAlister RB NO SPS W Dunn RB Atl SPS Bettis RB Pit SPS Gonzalez TE KC SPS Moss Min SPS Driver WR GB SPS D Stallworth WR NO SPS Bradford WR Hou SPS A Lelie WR Den SPS D Jackson WR Sea SPS Longwell K GB SPS Urlacher DL Chi SPS RLewis DL Bal SPS J Porter DL Pit SPS Peppers DL Car SPS D Brooks LB TB SPS R Williams DB Dal SPS M Brown DB Chi SPS R Barber DB TB WFS Pennington QB NYJ WFS Farve QB GB WFS PHolmes RB KC WFS C Garner RB Oak WFS Hearst RB SF WFS Franks TE GB WFS K Brady TE Jax WFS Toomer WR NYG WFS I Bruce WR StL WFS Mason WR Ten WFS Tim Brown WR Oak WFS Pinkston WR Phi WFS Feeley K Atl WFS Carney K NO WFS J Sharper DL Hou WFS M Rucker DL Car WFS L Little DL StL WFS Kearney DL Atl WFS R Woodson DB Oak WFS Tongue DB Sea WFS A Glenn DB Hou WFS A Molden DB Was EDIT - Just adjusting the spacing slightly to make it easier to read - Ryan S Last edited by Ryan S : 08-27-2003 at 08:20 AM. |
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08-27-2003, 08:13 AM
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#12 |
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Roster Filler
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cicero
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I am simply stunned at McNabb going in the 14th round.
All kinds of funky stuff here. NYH screwing up by taking Hines Ward in the 2nd round when Culpepper was available and then getting Culpepper in the 10th. I really cannot comprehend this. Culpepper should be the #1 QB in a league that balances rushing and passing for QBs, especially if it is a single season draft. McNabb should be no worse than 5th, and Garcia should be drafted as a backup QB this year. I like BD's team. The RB/WR group of Williams, Green, Owens and Robinson are better than anyone else has. I also like his defense, as he is only starting studs, many (Bulluck, Holmes, Claiborne) who do not get the recognition they deserve.
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http://www.nateandellie.net Now featuring twice the babies for the same low price! Last edited by Samdari : 08-27-2003 at 08:13 AM. |
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08-27-2003, 08:29 AM
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#13 |
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Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Kennesaw, GA
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McNabb in the 14th round??? WTF???
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08-27-2003, 08:56 AM
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#14 |
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lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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That's a league full of children, right? Or is it a charity thing you're running at a local old age home? There's got to be a good explanation for this...
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08-27-2003, 09:02 AM
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#15 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA
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Quote:
I can't think of one. Edit: If you play for money can I take part next year? Last edited by Bee : 08-27-2003 at 09:02 AM. |
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08-27-2003, 12:35 PM
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#16 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Gee, thanks for ripping on the league, guys. I was kind of hoping for opinions along the lines of rankings. For those that actually did say something involving which teams you like more, thank you, but could you possibly rank the teams in order as well? That would be nice, since a lot of the feedback we're getting isn't actually worthwhile.
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08-27-2003, 12:43 PM
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#17 |
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High School JV
Join Date: May 2001
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Ah, whatever. I made a spreadsheet that put in everyone's stats from last year and then calculated the number of points they would have gotten total over the season. According to that, there is no way Culpepper and McNabb should have been taken highly. Probably people haven't realized that we're getting penalized for incomplete passes. And the quarterbacks weren't even what made the biggest difference last year based on this system. It was pretty much the running backs and wide receivers.
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08-27-2003, 12:46 PM
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#18 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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That's including QB's rushing yards and TDs?
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08-27-2003, 12:47 PM
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#19 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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Dola - did you also pro-rate McNabb's stats for 16 games?
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null |
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08-27-2003, 12:49 PM
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#20 |
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High School JV
Join Date: May 2001
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The spreadsheet? Yeah. The quarterback with the most number of points was Rich Gannon (3 RBs were ahead of him) followed by a ton of more RBs and WRs, then Peyton Manning.
No, I didn't prorate the stats -- I just threw it together to get a rough idea. Last edited by lurker : 08-27-2003 at 12:50 PM. |
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08-27-2003, 01:20 PM
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#21 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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As close as I can figure things, Rich Gannon averaged a little over 29 points per week in your system. Mcnabb came in right at 26 points per week. (remember, you have to factor in he didn't play in 6 games)
So that three point difference made had one going at #1 and the other in the 14th round? How about Peyton Manning, the #3 pick in the draft? He finished averaging less points than did McNabb on a per week basis. I can't see any reason for McNabb going in the 14th round in any league. As far as ranking the teams? I'll just list some quick thoughts: AG - One of the best teams in the league. Needs a QB until Vick gets back, but has loads of talent AO - Love a couple of the defensive players and Heap. Dislike the running backs. I wouldn't be happy with that team. BD - I like Bledsoe and Williams. There just isn't a lot of depth here though. If the big 2RB's and WR's stay healthy, it could be ok. Anyone gets hurts, it's BIG trouble. FCS - Great backfield, not so great WR's. I don't like the DB's either. If any of the WR surprise, this team could be ok. NYH - A very solid team until you get to the defense. Utterly horrible there. Fields is out for the year, McNeil has been released. . . Brooking can only do so much. PP - Michael Bennett is likely gone for the year. I love the WR. I hate the defense beyond Dwight Freeney. SPS - Still gets my vote as best draft. Terrific defense will score every week. Deep, big play WR core. Good RB's. WFS - I don't like the team. Pennington is done. I can't understand Franks over Shockey (I don't care how important TD's are, Shockey should outpoint Franks, especially now that the Packers have added Wesely Walls) No depth at any position IMO. TroyF |
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08-27-2003, 01:27 PM
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#22 | |
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lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Quote:
It's a tall order to post the specifics of a league like this that is obviously vastly different from those that most people are familiar with, and hope that you'll get the level of understanding that you are looking for here. Kudos to Troy and those who are trying to give constructive feedback. All I see is a league where there are a lot of picks that are very, very tough to make any sense of... unless you assume (like many have) that the teams picking were just working off a list of numbers from last seaon, without any modification for updated playing time or time missed last season. I have yet to see any fantasy system that includes individual defensive players where it makes any degree of sense to draft them anywhere but the very bottom of the draft, right down with kickers. The fact that 50 or more defensive players went ahead of Donovan McNabb (as the obvious example) tells me that there's something very weird at work here. To fully comprehend your whole system of rules, I'd certainly need to invest a good deal of time. I'm sure that the -1 for incomplete passes is a big deal, and favors those QBs in short-passing offenses. But honestly now... how can any fantasy player look at that draft and not cry foul? |
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08-27-2003, 01:34 PM
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#23 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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If we're just talking about McNabb, you guys are right. I think almost everyone DID simply look at last year's stats, and didn't do much with them, whether it was because of restrictions due to time or interest. I know that that's what I did with QBs, at least (I went into it more with RBs and WRs). When McNabb was taken, I was shocked, realizing I had completely forgotten about him. As for examples of other players, I don't see any other good examples of someone who fell too far down. As for players being drafted too soon...well, I'll assume that I didn't draft any of them!
I wasn't necessarily expecting a perfect understanding of this league with different rules. I posted them to help people get an idea of what the league was like. I did not, however, think that this lack of understanding would lead to riducle. |
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08-27-2003, 01:39 PM
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#24 |
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High School JV
Join Date: May 2001
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Yeah, I guess I really should have accounted for the number of games everyone played.
I'm just happy nobody pointed out one specific team and said "THAT's the one picked by the person that knows nothing about football!" |
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08-27-2003, 01:42 PM
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#25 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA
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Quote:
We wouldn't do that to Passacaglia.  |
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08-27-2003, 01:46 PM
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#26 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
I'm not just talking about McNabb Pasc. Peppers getting drafted below guys like Vrabel, Barten and Fields? The leagues we are in all differ in their intensity and how much the opinions in the room are. This forum has some VERY intense fantasy football players (I should know, I went up against some of these guys in not only a fantasy draft, but the all time team challenge as well) When these type of fantasy players see what they perceive to be major errors, they pounce. I'm not insulting your league in the least. I hope you have a lot of fun with it. I just see some things that I feel are out of place. TroyF |
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08-27-2003, 02:00 PM
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#27 | |
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lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Quote:
It's not the rules, nor a lack of understanding thereof, that led to ridicule, it's the picks. Your league, for whatever reason, made a lot of wholesale poor decisions that just jump off the page (screen). |
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08-27-2003, 02:08 PM
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#28 |
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lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Not trying to be needlessly harsh, just defending those who did the reasonable thing here -- saw the draft printed out, in order, pick by pick, and made comments about it.
If I'm going to assess the quality of the teams without getting a complete understanding of the rules, I'll do what I always do: (in deliberate order) -how good are the starting running backs? -how good are the QBs and WRs? -any major standouts anywhere else on the roster? -how good are the reserve running backs? -any particularly interesting late-round picks worth noting? It takes a very screwed-up scoring system to get me to depart from that analysis, more or less, as the best way to assess the quality of a fantasy football team. If your league insists on filling in all the individual defensive players that early, they are simply not understanding the most essential concepts of fantasy football, and/or falling prey to a lemming mentality (and just doing things because other people are doing those things). In either case... they deserve what's coming. Good luck - hope both of you mange to crush the league and that lurker ekes it out in the title game. |
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08-27-2003, 03:52 PM
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#29 | |
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Mascot
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fresno CA
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Quote:
This is pretty much how I look at a team. One point we may differ on is how early to go for defense. In our league tackles are worth 2, assists 1, sacks 4, interceptions 5, defensive TDs 7. Analysis of scoring over our league's 18 years shows that RB is the highest scoring position, followed by QB, then Linebacker, Then WR. So my strategy has always been to go after a RB or two immediately. The only exception to this is when the RBs have been prematurely thinned, and a standout QB or WR is available. Exception noted, when I have done this my team has nearly unilaterally sucked. |
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08-28-2003, 02:26 AM
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#30 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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But isn't highscoring not the main target in ffl? (uh-oh, double denial)
Isn't it the difference between your team and the others that counts most, independannt wheter it's a head-to-head style or a weekly-score-add-all? I'd rather have a TE score 10p/week with all starting TE's avering 3p/week, the a WR averaging 15p/week were the WR average is 10pt/week. Lurker made avalid point though, the scoring system makes a lot of difference. That's what makes it really hard to compare one Culpepper-Shaun Alexander-Keyshawn Johnson combo to another. Culpepper is a top QB in leagues that favour "mobile" quarterbacks, but he's average in leagues that penelize interceptions very hard and hardly rewards rushing. Shaun Alexander has yet to proove being a consistent RB, so in a head-to-head league he's less valuable then the add-it-all systems, where his 80 points aginst the Cardinals make a bigger difference. Keyshawn Johnson is a consistent scorer in yardage based systems, but there were TDs are all that matters, he's yet to do well in Tampa Bay. |
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08-28-2003, 12:11 PM
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#31 |
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lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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You can do all the analysis you want over what positions score the highest... that doesn't answer the real questions.
The two things that you should pay for in a draft are (1) improvement over replacement value, and (2) predictability in those results. Understanding that statement fully is really all you need. Quality starting RBs are a top priority for exactly these reasons-- they tend to get scarce in a typical draft setup, top players are relatively predictable in their performance, and the diffrence between having a solid starter and havign to use a guy you picked up off the waiver wire (or in the late rounds of most drafts) is vast. Get a top RB: improvement over replacment value is high, predictability of results is high. Done. Quality QBs and WRs, in most systems, are helpful - but the positions simply are not as scarce - meaning that their improvement over replacement value is lessened. WR, especially, is also a less predictable position week to week in general. In most fantasy leagues (abotu 12 teams, each startign 1 QB and 2-3 WR) there will be capable (but not outstanding) QBs and WRs available all year long for nothing but a transaction. Your QBs are only worth somethign to the degree that they are reliably better than those guys. I agree with Matthijs - top-flight TEs are valuable, especially because in most leagues their improvement over replaceent value is very low. A TE who posts 1,000 yards and 10 TDs is worth much, much more than a WR who does the same (in standard systems requiring a TE for each starting roster). Defenses and kickers tend to suffer on the reliability side. Some excellent defenses will tend to generate strong totals, and it's tempting to think that due to this they should be early selections. However, there is a great deal more uncertainty there than with a position like RB or even QB... look at the teams predicted to be strong fantasy defenses for last year, and look who ended up as the top-ranked ones. The list will have many more and more serious discrepancies than you'll evenr expect at QB or RB... even if there are rampant injuries and PT follies there. Defenses simply are volatile year to year, even week to week. nd the fact that they are usually plentiful makes them a geenrally less valuable pick. Individual defensive players are even more extreme. Yes, certain players tend to put up big tackle totals, and that can be fairly predictable. But the sheer huge number of individual defensive players mean that other than true standouts, there's little point of making meaningful investments there. There are something like 100 starting linebackers in the NFL... at any point, in ppractically any league, there have to be a number of pretty decent guys available for nothing. Unless your guy is a significant and predictabl improvement over those guys, lay off and take what's left at the end. It's as simple as that. Kickers are notoriously unpredictble year to year, and are also genrally plentiful. Same principle applies here as with defenses - as a rule just wait and take what's left. |
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08-28-2003, 01:22 PM
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#32 | ||
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Roster Filler
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cicero
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Quote:
I see your point about Culpepper. But, Troy has a point about the #3 overall pick and a 14th rounder. That said, to be even fair, now we will ridicule one of Troy's statements: Quote:
Nice job checking the math on McNabb and Manning, but maybe you should have on Vick. The current backup on the team is B Johnson, who was actually far better than Vick under this system last season. Vick scored 271 points in 15 starts, and Johnson scored 289 in 13. Looks like the league did a nice job not taking Vick early. This system obviously values passing way over rushing, so Vick becomes an average (at best) QB. But, Passacaglia, it is a bit much to ask us to learn a complete new system, and evaluate a complete league (with larger than normal rosters) based on it. That's quite a bit more involved than the typical "do you like this guy or that guy" fantasy football question.
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08-28-2003, 01:43 PM
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#33 |
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Mascot
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fresno CA
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I am pretty much in agreement with what you say QS. About the only place we differ in our team selection is that I do see value in snagging a top flight defensive player over a third flight wide receiver. I generally end up three running backs after four picks. Certainly no less than two backs. The odd player being a WR or QB. I took Urlacher in last years draft with my fifth pick. I think that is the earliest I have ever taken a defensive player. I may have taken Bruce Smith as early in the past.
The one notable year I went for recievers and a quarterback over Running backs was back when Barry Sanders was a rookie. After locking up a good solid QB and pair of WRs I took 4 straight running backs. I ended up taking Dalton Hilliard as my third back, and rookie Barry Sanders as my fourth. The force was with me, as those two turned out to be all everything. Hilliard a career journeyman became a one man show in New Orleans, and was the best back in the league that year. One thing to note is I can't remember who my first two backs were. |
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08-28-2003, 01:58 PM
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#34 | |
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lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Quote:
Again - I agree that a true standout among individual defensive players make sense - Urlacher might well be one of the few players that fits that mold. My argument is that once the real standouts are gone, don't fret because there are plenty of "decent guys" out there. I think we're in agreement there. I rememebr Dalton Hilliard powering my best friend to a fantasy league championship that year... he really did come from nowhere. About 1988, right? |
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08-28-2003, 03:39 PM
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#35 |
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Mascot
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fresno CA
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Yes 1989. My first league championship. I won our superbowl 145-144, in what was the highest scoring championship game until just a couple of years ago. As Luck would have it the victory came at the expense of very best friend, and have lorded it over him ever since.
My favorite fantasy football fact. In the closing seconds of the second quarter Joe Montana through an 8 yard pass to the tight end, Jon Hand I believe, who had the ball stripped from him by a defensive back. It was the last pass Joe would throw that regular season, as some upstart named Young would mop up the second half. It was initially ruled a completion, but over half time the official scorer over ruled that, and declared it an interception. This had two monumental results, first it stripped Montana of the single season completion percentage record(just one incompletion). Secondly, since interceptions were worth negative two points at the time, and having noted my single point victory, it has given me braggin rights ever since. |
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08-29-2003, 05:50 AM
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#36 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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After only 3 years of experience in fantasy football in only leagues with at least 8 FOFCers involved, I am amazed to see I build up the same idea on positions as QuikSand posted.
I agree that WRs can be picked up any week of the year, with 2 starters at 32 teams and at least 8 #3WRs having decent value, there is a market of 70 WRs for 12 teams. That is 7 WR per team. The RB market for 2 starters is very slim, just 32 starters of which always up to 8 are either gambles (Zereoue or Bettis?) or will not score a lot. Add a couple of important backups (Bettis/Zereoue, Barlow/Hearst, Rams #2 RB0 and you have 40 RBs for 12 teams. That is less then 4 RB per team. The QB market is slim, though with just 1 starter per team and 32 QB starting in the NFL, each team can have 3 QB and there still are 2 starters left, not to mention every backup is still free to pickup. This year, I drafted in our 12-team league as follows (drafting #5 in odd rounds and #8 in even rounds): 1 RB Marshall Faulk (drating #5 ment I had a shot at getting a top5 RB) 2 TE Shockey (shocked by the rib injury, I think he's a guy that makes a difference in a 12-team must start 1 TE league) 3 RB William Green (call it a steal, but there are always names to slip) 4 tm Buccaneers (a huge gamble I think, but if the Bucs can get the weekly 5pt advantage, it's worth it) 5 RB Bettis (the day before he was named #2, yet there were no other notable RBs left) 6 QB Pennington (pre-injury) 7 QB Ramsey (pre Pennington injury) 8 RB Gordon (Faulk insurance policy, I figured he'd not last past round 10) 9 WR Terry Glenn 10 WR Kennison 11 WR Darrell Jackson 12 QB Jon Kitna (with Pennington out and about 28 starting QBs taken, I had to pick either Testaverde, Kordell Stewart, David Carr or Kitna; in the end Stewart might score better as a rushing TD scorer) 13 14 15 16 I picked Kitna higher then projected, but with Pennington out, I decided not to wait for round 14 or 15 and seeing others picking him as their #3 QB. With the Shockey and Buccaneers combo, I have a problem in week 4, when both have a bye week. This caused me not to pick any other player with a bye in week 4 (Dolphins, Giants, Seahawks, Buccaneers) except Darrell Jackson. I still need a K, a RB for week 5, a WR and I think I'll pick a TE. The K will be easy, about 24 K can score and nobody is going to pick 3 K. A second TE might be troublesome, but getting a starter as a backup is easy. Like I explained above, getting a good WR is a piece of cake too, I can even ignore the WRs from the 12 teams involved in bye weeks of my current WRs. The RB might be really hard, but with no starters left, it'll be a backup anyway. Even the good #2s are gone (Dunn/Duckett, Hearst/Barlow, Zereoue/Bettis, Staley/Buckhalter, Faulk/Gordon, Pittman/Jones) Perhaps I'm putting my chances in jeopardy, my opponents can read this, but I think with 4 rounds left to draft, there is not much to be won or lost anymore, I'm confident I can fill the 4 needs. I concider this though as a strong league, noting down the draft results when it's over will probably show that. The biggest steal this year might be Drew Brees, who I amazingly saw free and with Pennington out hoped to still land at #125, but then he got picked at #124. If Pennington wasn't injured I wouldn't have concidered picking Brees though. Last edited by MIJB#19 : 08-29-2003 at 05:56 AM. |
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